Shafi'i: Friday prayer fiqh questions

[alfatiha]

1. Incomplete khutbah: few of the arkan is missing or done in English (no dua, etc), should we perform Zuhr or pray Jumuah?

2. The khutbah is started when there is less than 40 people but ends when there is "enough" people.

3. Khatib and Imam are different.

4. Sajdah ayat in the surah read (either in Khutbah or Prayer).

[safinatun_naja]

1. Incomplete khutbah: few of the arkan is missing or done in English (no dua, etc), should we perform Zuhr or pray Jumuah?

2. The khutbah is started when there is less than 40 people but ends when there is "enough" people.

3. Khatib and Imam are different.

4. Sajdah ayat in the surah read (either in Khutbah or Prayer).

wa alaikum salam,

1. The Khutbahs are a condition for the validity of Jumuah, if a condition or integral (of the khutbahs) is missing the Jumuah won't be valid in the first case or the Khutbahs in the second.

2. A very good discussion of most chapters related to Fiqh al-'Ibadah can be found in Shaykh 'Abd Allah al-Jurdani's Fath al-'Allam. Under the topic of discussion the author writes,

" And know that it is necessary for the full number (of attendants) to be present from the beginning of the khutbah until the end of the prayer. If the number of attendees lessen before the Khutbah, the Khutbah shouldn't begin until 40 people are present. "

Fath al-Allam, 3/24

4. Not too sure about this one, It mentions in al-Muqaddimat al-Hadramiyyah that it is Sunnah to recite Surat al-Jumu'ah in the first Rak'ah and al-Munafiqun in the second, or Surah 'Ala in the first and Ghashiyah in the second.

Allah Ta 'Ala knows best

3. It took me a while to find the answer to this one. Again, in Fath al-'Allam, the author says, "

The Imams differ regarding the ruling of Imamah of the person who didn't give the Khutbah.

He ( I think he means here Shaykh Nawawi al-Jawi ) said in Mirqah Saud al-Tasdiq (a commentary of Sullam al-Tafiq), If an individual gives the Khutbah and he wishes to put another person up to lead the prayer, it is necessary for that person to be among those who heard the Khutbah and that he intend Jumuah if he was among the 40 attendants, otherwise the intention of Jumuah is not a condition since it is valid to pray Jumuah behind someone praying Dhuhr. And that is disliked, i.e that the khatib not be the Imam.

And in this Masa'lah there is a different between the Imams as mentioned in Rahmat al-Ummah (al-Dimashqi's abridgment of al-Sha'rani's Mizan al-Kubra)

The wording of Rahmat al-Ummah :

The Imams differ, is it permissible for the Imam not to be the Khatib ?

Abu Hanifah said : It is permitted when there is an excuse.

Imam Malik said: Only the Khatib may lead.

Imam al-Shafi' has two views: The sound view is that it is permitted and two narrations are related from Ahmad.

In Mizan al-Kubra it mentions that Imam Malik has two views and the more preponderant view is that it is permitted when there is an excuse, like the view of Abu Hanifah.

Fath al-'Allam, 3/55

[ardianto]

Wa' alaikumsalam.

1. Incomplete khutbah: few of the arkan is missing or done in English (no dua, etc), should we perform Zuhr or pray Jumuah?

Khutbah can be given in Arabic or other languages, and there are two khutbah in salah Juma'ah. But if the Khutbah is incomplete, of course, this salah is not considered as salah Juma'ah.

2. The khutbah is started when there is less than 40 people but ends when there is "enough" people.

First khutbah is started after Azan. Khatib say shalawat and du'a, then start first khutbah. Then continue with second khutbah that shorter than the first.

In Shafi'i madhaab, minimum participants in salah Juma'ah are 40 persons including Imam. Salah Juma'ah with less than 40 persons is not valid.

3. Khatib and Imam are different.

Khatib and Imam are allowed to different or same persons..

4. Sajdah ayat in the surah read (either in Khutbah or Prayer).

Can you repeat this question with other words ?. I don't understand.

Wa Iyakum.

[alfatiha]

for the answers.

Therefore, if the Juma'ah is incomplete, should we pray Zuhr instead after the Juma'ah prayer?

What confuses me is that when a person come late but he manage to catch the first raka'ah (before i'tidal), he still doesn't need to do Zuhr but only pray Juma'ah. In this case he completely misses the whole khutbah and doesn't need to pray Zuhr at all (from what I understand). So what is the different of this case and the case where the Khutbah is incomplete? Is khutbah connected to the prayer, or not?

Can we follow the old school of Shafi'i where it allows less than 40 people to start Juma'ah? (I've read from brother Yahya's post long time ago, but couldn't find it here)

for #4: My question was about what if the Imam do sajdah tilawat during quran recitation either in the khutbah and the salah, What should the ma'mum do? I just need clarification. There was one incident where the Imam did sajdah during prayer (he read Surah Alaq) and it created a stir among ma'mum.

[safinatun_naja]

for the answers.

Therefore, if the Juma'ah is incomplete, should we pray Zuhr instead after the Juma'ah prayer?


What confuses me is that when a person come late but he manage to catch the first raka'ah (before i'tidal), he still doesn't need to do Zuhr but only pray Juma'ah. In this case he completely misses the whole khutbah and doesn't need to pray Zuhr at all (from what I understand). So what is the different of this case and the case where the Khutbah is incomplete? Is khutbah connected to the prayer, or not?


Can we follow the old school of Shafi'i where it allows less than 40 people to start Juma'ah? (I've read from brother Yahya's post long time ago, but couldn't find it here




for #4: My question was about what if the Imam do sajdah tilawat during quran recitation either in the khutbah and the salah, What should the ma'mum do? I just need clarification. There was one incident where the Imam did sajdah during prayer (he read Surah Alaq) and it created a stir among ma'mum.

In the first case that you mentioned, it assumes that there are 40 participants when you arrive. As for the last question, are you still talking about less than 40 people when the Khutbah begins or incomplete in that the Arkan are not fulfilled ? In both cases it seems that the Jumuah pray won't be valid since in the first scenerio there are less than 40 people at the beginning of the Khutbah and in the second, the Khutbah is invalid.

Praying Jumuah with less than 40:

This question was asked to Imam al-Balqini (r.a), i.e if the people in the town do not reach the required amount of participants (namely 40), do they pray Jumuah or Dhuhr ?

He responded and said that they should pray Dhuhr according to the view of the Shafi'i Madhhab.

After relating this in Fath al-Mu'in, the author Imam al-Mallibari mentions that a group of 'Ulama have permitted Jumuah in such case, he mentions that it is a strong view and if the participants decide to follow such view they can pray Jumuah and it is good if they are cautious and pray Dhuhr afterwards.

It should be noted here that the participants have to adopt the view that Jumuah may be performed with less than 40...

[alfatiha]

I need to start pray Zuhr then.

It should be noted here that the participants have to adopt the view that Jumuah may be performed with less than 40

I don't think any other madhhab that permits khutbah in other language other than Shafi'i. والله اعلم

[safinatun_naja]

I need to start pray Zuhr then.



I don't think any other madhhab that permits khutbah in other language other than Shafi'i. والله اعلم

You should follow up with a Shafi'i 'Alim

[alfatiha]

but I don't know anyone nearby (or I don't have any contact).

We don't have any Masjid (or Imam) nearby (nearest possibly ~50 mile) and we use a basement in a building to pray Juma'ah and tarawih/Eid prayers. Basically the imam job is passed on several brothers and some of them are not Shafi'i (possibly Hanafi or Misri) and they start khutbah after Ẓuhr (alhamdulillah) and some of them do not aware of the arkān of khutbah, for example, they don't say the arkān in Arabic, missing one of the arkān especially اتقوا الله, and sometimes when you think they have fulfilled pretty much everything, they do du'a in English, etc. The Hanafi 'Ulama' nearby (~150 mile) hold on to view of khutbah in Arabic only. People usually come in later, but khutbah always start on time with possibly less than 40 people. I know Aḥnāf can do Juma'ah with less than 40, but they don't permit non-Arabic khutbah. I've brought this subject to one of the khatib before and he said in Hanafi, they can do non-Arabic khutbah (based on the fiqh ala madhhab arba'ah book), so I don't know. Not sure about other madhhab. والله اعلم. If you can bring this subject to any of the Shafi'i Ulamā' that would be most helpful.

As for now, my solution is to do Ẓuhr

[bugmenot]

brothers,

just providing the hanafi viewpoint on what you mentioned here :

I know Aḥnāf can do Juma'ah with less than 40, but they don't permit non-Arabic khutbah. I've brought this subject to one of the khatib before and he said in Hanafi, they can do non-Arabic khutbah (based on the fiqh ala madhhab arba'ah book), so I don't know.

The second misconception with regard to the position of Imam Abu Hanifah in the issue of Khutbah is that some people have misinterpreted his view to say that a non-Arabic Khutbah is quite permissible according to Imam Abu Hanifah.

This is again a wrong statement. Imam. Abu Hanifah does not hold it quite permissible to deliver Khutbah in a non-Arabic language. He holds it "Makrooh Tahreeman", a term almost analogous to 'impermissible', which means that it is not allowed to deliver Khutbah in a language other than Arabic. However, if somebody commits this Makrooh (impermissible) act, his Khutbah will not be deemed as void, and the Jumuah prayer performed after it will be valid.

To properly understand his position, one must recall that the Khutbah is a condition precedent to the validity of Jumuah prayer. Without Khutbah , Jumuah prayer is void. Now most of the jurists, including Imam Abu Yousuf and Imam Muhammad are of the opinion that a non-Arabic Khutbah is not acceptable at all. If somebody delivers it non-Arabic language it can never be held as a Khutbah of Friday, therefore, it will not fulfill the condition of Jumuah prayer and no Jumuah prayer can be performed after it unless an Arabic Khutbah is delivered again.

Imam Abu Hanifah differs from them in this aspect only. He says that admittedly, a non-Arabic Khutbah is Makrooh or impermissible, yet the non-Arabic language does not render it as void. Therefore, it can be used for fulfilling the condition of the Jumuah prayer. Therefore, the people who attend such a Khutbah can participate in the Jumuah prayer and the obligation of Jumuah will be held as discharged.

>> From Mufti Taqi Usmani : http://www.as-sidq.org/darusalam/friday.html

[alfatiha]

bugmenot. InshaAllah I also have already my friend to ask a Hanafi mufti about non-arabic khutbah because he also thought it was makruh (but he didn't say which makruh).