madhabs

[Jamaluddine]

Please note the following points:

1. The four Imams (Rahimahumullah) are not the only ones with Madhahib, it's just that they are the most known. There are also others such as: Sufyaan al-Thawri, al-Layth ibn Sa’d and al-Awzaa’i (Rahimahumullah).

2. There's no need for more Madhabs to emerge, because between them, the above imams have pretty much covered everything that needs detailing or explaining in Islamic Fiqh.

3. Salafis (or should I say Ahlus-Sunnah Waljama'ah) do follow the Madhahib mentioned above, but not fanatically!. They rather follow the strongest evidence from these Madhahib in each particular case.

To all the brothers and sisters here: May Allah SWT accept your fasting and praying in the Blessed Month!!

Wassalam
Jamaluddine

[Was_tha_musafir]

why do muslims have to follow 'madhabs'? why can't they follow just the Qu'ran and if needs be the e.g. of the prophet. For christians the Bible has everything christians need.

http://www.masjidehamza.co.uk/_17_gvd.php

the second talk down on that page, should be very useful to u

[gabriel]

Thank u v.much gabriel for the detailed reply.

i have a question if u can answer for me though please.

u say 'any credible knowledge must have an authentic chain that leads back to the original source, therefore if any madhab is to attempt to establish itself it has to be rejected since their will be no chain of transmission'

now lets say someone like hamza yusuf who has studied under scholars, there is a chain of transmission isn't there? now i understand he clearly isnt a mujtahid mutlaq but for arguments sake he did reach that level and he attained the level of a mujtahid mutlaq. would muslims be allowed to make taqleed of him? if not why not? in this siutaiotn what is preventing a new madhab from being formulated. he has studied under scholars and there is a chain of transmission and hes a mujtahid. why have the gates of ijtihad of following a new madhab been closed? i find this very confusing about islam

please answer because atm im more closer to how salafis are explaining.

thanks again.

Sorry for the belated comment but I was sure that I posted it last night.

I am concerned when you state "i find this very confusing about islam".

The reason for this is that you are delving into areas that are probably beyond you capacity of understanding.

There is a modern trend and culture that is against the etiquettes of a well laid down foundation in the science of knowledge.

Every single academic institute in the world will reject the distribution of knowledge from an unqualified source and further any sound scholar in any field Muslim or Non Muslim will not reject the principal of Taqleed [now I have to educate in what taqleed is in its essence, although if you accepted the natural order of things there would not be a need; but you give yourself credit more then what is due. NOTE: this is not to incite an emotional reaction from you and i apologise for how it may read but I am attempted to get you to look at it from an intellectual pursuit and use logic to come to reason]

1. It is a practical impossibility for anyone not to adhere to taqleed in a broad sense. If you pick up a hadith of the Prophet you would be obligated to accept someone else's opinion of its authenticity, since you do not have access to the persons who approved the hadith ie. Imaam Bukhari, you have to rely on someone else approval even if it is the printing company [and there is documentation to prove that printing companies have modified translated versions] you simply have no other choice; does that make sense?

Back to your question.

You choose to bring in a hypothetical scenario of the emergence of a Mujtahid. The whole discussion would be extensive dialogue with the leading scholars, which even the emerging Mujtahid would not be making that decision without discussing with his teachers, you do not pop a Mujtahid out of a hat; you do not wake up one morning and lay a claim to it. You would be renowned in the circle of scholars through the world.

But assuming there was a hypothetical situation the first question has to be why? One thing is to be a Mujtahid the other thing is to have a school of thought, two different things.

Shah WalliAllah Al-Delahwi RA bought a vast amount of knowledge from Arabia to Indian SubContinent, he therefore being in the position of a Mujtahid could have developed his own school since the need from one direction was there; the circumstances allowed it. However he chose to proceed with the establishment of the principals of the hanafi school of thought and there a multiples of reasons for that. Every single angle has to pursued to come to that decision.

So the question is whether it would be allowed? in theory in a school boys heads, but any scholar of any excellence in knowledge would reject the notion of the rise of new school of thought.

[Idil_]

thanks for getting abck to me guys, much appreciated its all becoming a little more clearer to me now why schools of thoughts exist

Alas, it has never become clear to me. I feel like it's an encumbrance.

[sarah1510]

Thanks for replying again

Whenever u have the time i would really appreciate it if you could approve of my understanding of
the following: (if that makes sense)

1) in the beginning at the time of prophet mohammed obviously there was no need for taqleed
the prophet was alive.

2) when he passed away there were sahabas etc.they were close to the prophet no need
for taqleed, or they might have followed other sahabas if they didnt know something (other
people who knew more than them. i kind of get that taqleeds always happeneing if that was
the point of you telling me the 2nd paragraph, if it wasnt can u tell me? thanks

3) then you have tabieen

4) then tabi-tabieen

5) in the first 3 generations there were many mujtahid mutlqas, however after the first 3
generations of muslims only 4 mujtahid mutlaqs of work were reserved and actually transmittied
as schools of thoughts although other mujtahids might have existed.

6) people ascribe to of these four schools of thoughts which is the work of many many scholars they can go to scholars who can answer thier questions but they will be taking from one of the schools of thoughts.

7)if a mujtahid mutlaq does exist (which is extremely rare) he will be capable of ijtihad however another school of thought will not be established because of some reasons. i would be grateful if you could maybe say one or 2 of the reasons using the example of the man Shah WalliAllah Al-Delahwi RA ' you'ev given.

8)u can't mix between the madhabs because some of the work contradict with one another and also some people will choose what they want to follow or whats the easiest i understand.

9) now like i said above u said that taqleed is always happening in a broader sense, so lets say me ive become a muslim (i havent yet) but if i do i go to a mosque and the imam is (lets pretend im a man and im talking to him) a hanafi i dont know anything and he tells me answers to questions
i dont know the answers so im making taqleed. now this imam isnt making taqleed of not necessarily imam abu hanifa but all the works of the hanafi madhab? correct or incorrect? he has studied and is an 'alim'. sometimes even though 2 shcolars are hanafis there will still be conflict in an issue. can this imam pick what he wants to follow between this conclift?

what would he do in the above situation note:he is a scholar, will he ask someone who knows more than him? who would this type of person be? i believe in this situation i would follow what he chooses but how does someone like him choose?

last question but this important for me: if a mujtahid mutlaq existed and he is capable of making ijtihad (i understand that this isnt the norm) anyway if someone like me were to go to him, would he give me answer according to his ijtihad? or would he give me an answer to lets say i were a hanafi to the hanafi madhab? would it be allowed for him to give me an answer accoring to his ijtihad? if not why not? form what i can understand is it because therewoudlnt be anyone to assess whether he is a mujtahid mutlaq so to be on the safe side muslims stick to the 4 establised schools of thoughts?

but i would like to know would it be comppletly wrong to follow the ijtihad the mujtahid mutlaq made in the above situation? im asking because its a little confusing with some users on the website saying you can make taqleed to the ijtihad a mujtahid mutlaq such as alabani?

i understand that some or actually for you all of my questions will seem very stupid, but please understand that you answering the are really going to help me ont he decision of choosing islam.

thanks once again.

last question in this post.

who are the hanafi 'fuqaha' of the present age

the shafi 'fuqaha'

'maliki'

hanbali'


how do muslims know who they are?

So the question is whether it would be allowed? in theory in a school boys heads, but any scholar of any excellence in knowledge would reject the notion of the rise of new school of thought.

please explain that last bit, i dont quite understand the answer u'ev given

[imaan4success]

Thanks for replying again

Whenever u have the time i would really appreciate it if you could approve of my understanding of
the following: (if that makes sense)

Assalaamu alaykum sister,

For someone who is not yet a muslim, you seem to have grasped a great deal in this regard. This topic is one difficult for many muslims, let alone non muslims. I am also impressed by your understanding of much of the arabic terminology used. I truly pray that Allah swt guides you and I to what is the truth. Your line of questioning and ability to understand, quite clearly demonstrates your level of intelligence in my view.

It has been a while since I have looked at this issue in some detail, this topic can become very complicated and there is much to mention. Instead of covering it in any real detail, I will suffice with a summary that will hopefully, at least answer most, if not all of your queries. Anything else you wish to know, you are more than welcome to ask and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I will insha'Allah explain these issues in such a way whereby, not only will they become clarified for you, but you will see the logic behind it, the beauty of it, the wisdom (hikmah) and just how it fits perfectly with what we have learned and understood from the teachings of Islam, just like a glove.


Bismaillah walhamdulillah wassalaatu wasslaam ala rasoolillahil kareem s.a.w

This issue in one in regards to the issue of taqleed. In order to understand taqlid, we must first understand what taqlid is. Then we deal with the ruling regarding taqlid according to the shariah.

The definition of taqlid according to the classical scholars of Islam, is to take the juristic opinion of a qualified mujtahid mutlaq imam without knowing, or having knowledge of it's evidences.

The evidence for this are certain Quran ayaat (verses), such as, but not restricted to:

'Ask the People of knowledge if you know not'

'Obey Allah (swt), His Messenger (s.a.w.) and those in authority amongst you (oolil amri minkum)'

The above is also something we know through common sense. Each field has it's own authorities. For example, in medical science you have qualified doctors. If you want a diagnoses of an illness, you would have to go to a qualified medical doctor. It would not be wise for someone to consult medical text books, even though they are openly available. Nor would you go to someone who has merely read medical text books, but has no training in medicine, nor any qualifications. The same would be true for science, accountancy, law and so on and so forth.

In fact, this whole concept of following qualified scholarship from my own understanding, arose from Islam and the muslims. If you want a legal verdict on an issue, you go to a jurist (a mujtahid mutalq imam). If you want to know about the authenticity of hadiths, you go to a muhaddith (although mujtahid mutlaq imams must be qualified in this field also, as well as many other fields and so one can approach such a person). The same is true about grammar, for which you would go to a grammarian etc.

And this is the very commandment of the Quran 'Obey Allah, His Messenger and those in authority amongst you'. To know an issue, you must therefore go to and someone who is an authority in that field. The field of ijtihad (rulings) and fiqh is the domain of a mujtahid mutlaq imam. No matter how knowledgeable a scholar, if he does not meet the conditions of being a mujtahid mutlaq imam and does not possess the relevant qualifications, then he considered to be ignorant of that field. Either one has the qualifications, or they do not. Just because someone may have some level of familiarity of that field, does not make them an expert.

Again this is something understood from the verses above. In the quoted verses there are only two categories of people we can deduce. One is the person who has met the prerequisite conditions, has achieved the qualifications needed and thus becomes an authority. The other is one who is not qualified and thus cannot form a valid opinion in the field of question. We understand from the verses, either one is an authority in which case making ijtihad is obligatory upon him, or one is not, in which case making Taqlid and following someone who is an authority is obligatory. There is no third classification to be found anywhere as some would like us to believe. They invent this third category where you have someone who determines the stronger opinion. This is nonsensical and in contradiction to the Quran and the verses quoted.

I say it is nonsensical, as even logically it does not make sense. How can one verify and determine which position is the stronger unless one is at least of the same calibre of scholarship and understanding, or greater than those whose opinions they are weighing? In order for one to be capable of that, they would need to be authorities of least the same level of scholarship. That would be tantamount to a medical doctor, not skilled in surgery trying to determine which surgical practices are superior. To do that, you have to be qualified and skilled within that field. Being a medical doctor only means you have some level of familiarity at best. That does not permit or make valid a medical doctors assessment. That would require someone who is at least equally qualified with the surgeons, whose practice is under question.

Taqlid was practised during the time of the Messenger of Allah swt s.a.w. There are many ahadith that establish this. Like the example of when the Prophet s.a.w. sent Muadh r.a. to Yemen, to teach them Islam. He s.a.w. asked, ‘what will you rule by o Muadh?’, to which Muadh replied, ‘by the Book of Allah swt’. ‘And if you do not find it therein?’, ‘then by the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah swt (s.a.w.)’ and then the Messenger s.a.w. asked, ‘and if you do not find it therein?’ to which Muadh replied ‘then I will judge myself (make ijtihad)’. To which the Messenger of Allah responded with happiness and exclaimed Praised be to Allah swt who guided the messenger of the Messenger of Allah swt, to that which He loves and what pleases Him.’ So this is something that has been verified to be from the guidance by the Messenger of Allah swt s.a.w Himself. The Prophet s.a.w. clearly understood that the people of Yemen would follow the verdicts of Muadh, despite the fact that the Messenger of Allah swt Himself is still alive. And He s.a.w. isn’t the one being consulted. Yet the Prophet s.a.w. showed his happiness and praised the methodology of Muadh r.a.

There are other examples. Like where the wife of a Sahabah r.a. would follow and make Taqlid of her husband during the time of the Messenger of Allah swt. Mentioned in Mufti Taqi Uthmani’s book on this issue.

There are also numerous examples where the Sahabah themselves practised Taqlid (of other Sahabah r.a.), not only did they practice it, but promoted it. I will not mention any examples as this is becoming quite long as it is. So for the sake of brevity, if you would like to see some examples you can refer to a book called ‘Great Imams & The Sharee’ concept of taqleed’ ISBN 1-9026-2703-2 (it is a good read).

Taqlid was practised in the first three generations. Nobody at that time objected to it. In fact it was promoted and encouraged. The fact that many people would take rulings and verdicts from Mujtahid Imams during that time, without asking for evidence, and the Imams would give it without giving the evidences many a times, and nor did they discourage or speak out against this practise is proof enough. This also demonstrates, that it was a common practise and something the Imams themselves upheld.

Yes and true, there were many schools of thought, and a number of Mujtahid imams during the first three generation. However, only four schools survived for which we have an unbroken chain of transmittance (sanad/isnad). Why did is the case, only Allah swt can answer that question. It was Allah swt will, what the reason and wisdom behind it is Allah swt knows best.

Can there ever be another Mujtahid Imam? It’s possible, although very farfetched to believe it would occur. First of all, because the level of knowledge has over time deteriorated. The scholars today do not have the capacity or the level of knowledge and understanding the classical scholars gained. And with each generation what we witness is that knowledge is further deteriorated. So it is indeed very difficult to believe we would ever have another Mujtahid mutlaq imam. The other question would be, why would Allah swt raise such a person when there is no need for one? That to me at least, does not make sense.

In the first generation (and second) there was a need. Now there is no need. Back then, without these imams the Ummah (muslim nation) would have been at a loss in terms of fiqhi rulings. They would not have been able to practise upon their deen. That is no longer an issue.

If however, somehow we did end up with such an imam. It would be obligatory upon one who has the qualifications to make ijtihad. He is not a layman, and so Taqlid is haram (forbidden) upon such a person. If he is verified to be qualified by the ulama of his time, and he has an usool (set of principles for deriving the laws) which has be verified, checked, considered to be valid and in line with the teachings of Islam, then anyone can make Taqlid of such a person. That would be perfectly permissible.

Why follow one madhab? Because otherwise one would be following ones passions and desires. The question here should be, why would one want to take from another madhab? This idea that one takes the stronger opinion has been proven to be false and contradictory to the Quran. In order for one to be able to do that, one must be at least of the same calibre. Such a person does not exist. So preferring a view of another madhab cannot possibly be due to knowledge. Thus that is ruled out. There are only two possibilities left. One is to do it out of need and necessity (in which case it is permissible, but that is to be determined by a mufti and not a laymen as to what constitutes need and necessity). The third is to do it from following desires. And following desires is haram, forbidden. There are numerous verses which make it clear that following of desires is how one goes astray. Not to mention this being a consensus position of the scholars of every generation. This is why the fatwa was passed that one may only follow one madhab. As there would be no other reason (with doing it from necessity being the exception) for someone to take from another madhab except from caprice.

During the first three generations, people had fear of Allah swt and stuck to the verdicts they received, whether they liked it or not. It was after that, when people started looking for fatwas that suited their desires and would go to other madhabs for it. This is why a judgment was passed forbidding people to take from other madhabs and a consensus took place amongst the scholars of that time, and every generation since.

I will suggest that you be careful regarding many of the websites. There is a new recent sect which attempts to lure in followers paying on their ignorance of these issues. Albani was part of this sect, he was not a Mujtahid imam, in fact he hadn’t even studied the deen formally and gained ijaza. He was not even a scholar at the most basic level. It is only some of his followers and his sect (who are a tiny minority to begin with) who try to claim such a position for him. A Mujtahid imam must be verified to be so by the scholars, and agreed upon to be by the ulama of that time.

There was far more I was going to mention, but unfortunately I had to omit much for the sake of brevity and due to time restrictions. If there are any particulars, of course I can deal with them as they come. I also decided not to relate many of the evidences, for the same reasons mentioned.
Just to finish of however. One of things that Islam teaches us, is that we are here to be tested. We should always bare that in mind. Especially in regards to these issues. It is possible that the imams made mistakes, but the truth is what is the likelihood that they made mistakes? For someone who is not qualified, like the sect mentioned, the chances of mistakes and errors are high. Because the lack the necessary tools, knowledge, skills and understanding. They are not capable of fully understanding the evidences. So mistakes have to be expected and in large numbers. Even if one someone how manage to be right, their view is still not valid as they do not possess authority. And to follow such a person is to go against Allah swt’s commandment.

Whereas those who are qualified, the possibility of mistakes are minimal and would be extremely rare. The madhabs just to clarify, had other Mujtahid imams who would verify the verdicts anyway, where any mistakes were hopefully eradicated. But it would be highly unlikely to expect mistakes from such a person. And if he did commit any, as the Messenger of Allah swt mentioned he will still be rewarded. Indicating, it’s following is also fine. And this is proven from those verses mentioned also. Allah swt did not make any exceptions, Allah swt did not say follow the authorities, except check them to verify they were correct and only follow them if they were. That would be silly and contradictory. Allah swt fully knows and has knowledge of everything. Was Allah swt not aware that they would make mistakes or not? Yet, still we were commanded with following them, including their mistakes. And thus even in following their mistakes you are obeying Allah swt and will be rewarded. What right does any unqualified person have to question them and questions Allah swt’s command?

And this is part of our test sister, to see who will obey Allah swt and fulfil that commandment. Regardless as to whether our desires agrees or disagrees. Do you think Allah swt really cares a great deal about any minor mistakes which may have been made? The purpose is the test. To see who obeys Allah swt. That’s the objective, and that is what we should be focusing on. So those who try to get into these issues and dispute them, dear sister it would be advised to leave them and keep a distance. They will not benefit you in anyway, and will only cause harm.

This deen is so beautiful, just look at the mercy of Allah swt. Allah swt could have made ijtihad obligatory upon all of us. Imagine how impossible life would have become if that was the case? Or just verifying the positions of the imams? Allah swt made the deen easy for us by raising people to fulfil that task, and then commanding us to follow them. And I have no doubt there is great wisdom as to why Allah swt ensured there would only be four madhabs. Just imagine we had to derive the rulings and made mistakes? What would happen to us?

Subhnallah, walhamdulillahi rabbil aalameen that He swt made this deen easy for us. The command is a test. Now you see how it fits so beautifully into the main message and guidance of Islam?

I hope that will be enough insha’Allah. Anything else, please do ask.

Wallahu a’alam (And Allah swt knows best).

Wassalaam.

[gabriel]

Thanks for replying again

Whenever u have the time i would really appreciate it if you could approve of my understanding of
the following: (if that makes sense)

1) in the beginning at the time of prophet mohammed obviously there was no need for taqleed
the prophet was alive.

Not necessarily true. People had the choice to refuse the Prophet also, after the night ascension there were those people who left the fold of Islam since they were convinced by the polytheists that the Journey of months from Mecca to Jerusalem was impossible in one night. When Hadrath Abu Bakr RA was told this he responded saying, 'I will verify this [to confirm it came from his lips], but if he has said it then it must be true [taqleed]".

The only being that does not do taqleed is Allah! Why the Angels do not challenge Allah in any of his decisions regularly? we have a clear case of an argument presented in the court of Allah by the angels which was rational; this is the argument of why create Adam [since he will cause havoc just like the jinns did], if you need a species to do your worship then we are here, ready and willing to submit. Allah responded by stating that that he had knowledge that they did not, the Angels submitted to their will [taqleed].

The polytheists called called him a mad-man, crazy, insane, etc but never a liar, some of them even accepted that he was a prophet of Allah but refused to follow him. Since they believe he did not lie then he must be telling the truth [taqleed has a strong connection with trust].

Moving on.

2) when he passed away there were sahabas etc.they were close to the prophet no need
for taqleed, or they might have followed other sahabas if they didnt know something (other
people who knew more than them. i kind of get that taqleeds always happeneing if that was
the point of you telling me the 2nd paragraph, if it wasnt can u tell me? thanks

3) then you have tabieen

4) then tabi-tabieen

I think you get the idea.
Taqleed existed from the beginning and the reliance is either with an individual or group. Understand that the principal is the same and you can not agree to taqleed at some times and reject it at another.
Taqleed is essential due to physical laws ie. time, space, distances, etc. There were companions who only saw the Prophet once in one sitting only ultimately they had to rely on the other and believe in the other unless proven otherwise, this will always exist upto today. The authentication process is one of the Hujjat [proves] of Islam, unbroken chains of narration of the Quran and hadith from reliable and authenticated scholars [heart to heart not paper to paper]

5) in the first 3 generations there were many mujtahid mutlqas, however after the first 3
generations of muslims only 4 mujtahid mutlaqs of work were reserved and actually transmittied
as schools of thoughts although other mujtahids might have existed.

Incorrect, 6 schools of thoughts existed up to around 2 hundred years ago, when the chain of transmission broke the scholars abolished the other two, although a revival is attempted they have to be rejected on the sound principals that their can not be a unbroken chain for the transmission of the knowledge.

6) people ascribe to of these four schools of thoughts which is the work of many many scholars they can go to scholars who can answer thier questions but they will be taking from one of the schools of thoughts.

Do not understand

7)if a mujtahid mutlaq does exist (which is extremely rare) he will be capable of ijtihad however another school of thought will not be established because of some reasons. i would be grateful if you could maybe say one or 2 of the reasons using the example of the man Shah WalliAllah Al-Delahwi RA ' you'ev given.

Mujathid Mutlaq is just one significant matter when forming of the school. The forming of the schools is based on principals of how you derive the rulings from the Quran and Hadith [the methodology], now one has to produce a new set of principals and further going about shifting through all the knowledge base to classify the knowledge. Understand that since the name Abu Hanifa, Shafi, Malik, Hanbal is attached to the schools they did collate the knowledge and classify on their own, they all lived in extraordinary circumstances which gave them access to the resources, people, network to achieve what they did; it was a golden era for knowledge.

I would like to first read a specification of anyone who intends to duplicate that degree of extraordinary work, the mind boggles to think how one can even achieve it in this day and age. Google is suppose to be the most powerful computer in the world but as a web developer I daily outsmart Googles algorithm; you can not compete with the Human mind; and one Mujtahid Mutlaq does not have access to the geniuses that can assist him in forming his school. Time will simply be against him and he will probably need 50x time his lifespan to do it.

So that is one example of the basis of practicality, the other would be why? and it is a serious enough question; why do you need to form a school. 100s of schools have existed, every corner had a mujtahid; most did not stand the test of time and improvements was only made to these four since they gathered momentum and a higher following.

One of Shah WaliAllah Delawi's arguments against was that he did not want the burden, he did not trust himself enough; it is a massive responsibility that could go against you on the day of judgement. Imam Abu Hanifa's son asked if he could be an Imaam, his father said no; on inquiry why; his father said that when in a debate [he Abu Hanifa] would not raise his voice above the other since in doing that the other may become psychologically affected and his motive will change to winning the argument and not the finding of the truth [being an Imaam in those days did mean leader in the truest sense]. So that is a reason from a emotional state perspective.

8)u can't mix between the madhabs because some of the work contradict with one another and also some people will choose what they want to follow or whats the easiest i understand.

9) now like i said above u said that taqleed is always happening in a broader sense, so lets say me ive become a muslim (i havent yet) but if i do i go to a mosque and the imam is (lets pretend im a man and im talking to him) a hanafi i dont know anything and he tells me answers to questions
i dont know the answers so im making taqleed. now this imam isnt making taqleed of not necessarily imam abu hanifa but all the works of the hanafi madhab? correct or incorrect? he has studied and is an 'alim'. sometimes even though 2 shcolars are hanafis there will still be conflict in an issue. can this imam pick what he wants to follow between this conclift?

what would he do in the above situation
note:he is a scholar, will he ask someone who knows more than him? who would this type of person be? i believe in this situation i would follow what he chooses but how does someone like him choose?

You would be correct, the knowledge base reached a point of saturation and therefore did not require validation so scrupulous since [say 100 years ago] there was enough people in the chain of transmission to attest to the methodology of the madhabs.

Essentially a scholar today is only passing on the knowledge base, a Mufti [judge] today does not really make a standing case based on his interpretation of the quran and hadith; in most case he will compile the findings in his school and present this in the case so it is mere transmission on the knowledge. So they take the opinion of a ruling for a given situations ie. marriage and just inform you of it. I must also state that this is not a new practice. Since the schools were formulated this has been the default practice, rare individuals have appeared over time and 'purified' [word used by Imaam hamza yusuf] the knowledge base where needed.

Conflicts rarely arise amongst own schools and when they do they should follow the morale code and refer to early findings on a matter by the founders of the schools or updates made by other renowned scholars, trust me every possible conflict theoretically that could happen has happened. However if they do the institution you studied would have given you guidance of how to find the resolve.

You do not just pick out a solution, you would do the research and analyse the findings to draw the conclusion. I was in court the other day and the Judge and prosecution were coming back and forth with a specific book in law as reference since they were having a disagreement, this is the way things are done; by the book [mind the pun].

last question but this important for me: if a mujtahid mutlaq existed and he is capable of making ijtihad (i understand that this isnt the norm) anyway if someone like me were to go to him, would he give me answer according to his ijtihad? or would he give me an answer to lets say i were a hanafi to the hanafi madhab? would it be allowed for him to give me an answer accoring to his ijtihad? if not why not? form what i can understand is it because therewoudlnt be anyone to assess whether he is a mujtahid mutlaq so to be on the safe side muslims stick to the 4 establised schools of thoughts?

but i would like to know would it be comppletly wrong to follow the ijtihad the mujtahid mutlaq made in the above situation? im asking because its a little confusing with some users on the website saying you can make taqleed to the ijtihad a mujtahid mutlaq such as alabani?

i understand that some or actually for you all of my questions will seem very stupid, but please understand that you answering the are really going to help me ont he decision of choosing islam.

There used to be a order, a social order that human beings have followed and this order has been accepted by all faiths and societies. Hierarchy have always existed and there has been an establishment throughout ever land. When you break the order or things you achieve the opposite which is chaos.

The dilemma you have is who is defined as a Mujtahid Mutlaq, from the perspective of a bystander the ball swings either way. there is a common sense practice, therefore the Mujtahid would look at your circumstance and would follow the correct etiquettes and advise you towards your school if you were not affiliate to a school who should rightly ask why not and then give you a ruling on your circumstances. Try to follow this process logically, schools have to expand and for this require students of knowledge and these students would be able to hold study circles to transmit all the knowledge base that covers every sphere of life. So if the Mujtahid does exists then he would be able to give the answer according to his ijtihad, of course.

it is not a case of safe bet to stick to the 4 schools but about verification. Scholars exist that can verify the calibre of other scholars, but there has to documentation to prove the calibre that someone is a mujtahid mutliaq for others to verfiy in the first place, or study circles held that other scholars attended and saw this mujtahid forming principal guidelines from quran and hadith. As with in any academic field you would have credentials that are verified by your lecturers and teachers initially and this would spread throughout the islamic world especially the leading institutions. Contrary to believe the Islamic institutions around the world have strong relationships and attend annual meetings and seminars amongst the teachers, principals, establishment administrators.

i can not answer for Albani or in this situation for any really since the problem is the same, you as a human being will need to do taqleed in this case; mine.
There are some logical steps to follow, view the academic credentials, thesis written, etc to make the up your own mind, but again how will you really know? You will make your decision on a leap of faith.

but with the other four schools there is establishment and detailed writings and scholars who follow the methodology of deriving rules based on principals. Outside of these four schools there is chaos.

thanks once again.

last question in this post.

who are the hanafi 'fuqaha' of the present age

the shafi 'fuqaha'

'maliki'

hanbali'


how do muslims know who they are?

General Muslims live in communities and they would have scholars in those areas that are affiliate to the one of these schools. Allah will guide you and find you the right connection, just believe!

please explain that last bit, i dont quite understand the answer u'ev given

I answered this above. It simply is not a small feat, the complexities are vast and one one to achieve this without the network of influence is a sheer impossibility. The greatest of scholars struggled to master one madhab let alone establish their own, in rare circumstances and situations the opportunities were there but even the likes of ShahWaliAllah Al-Delawi was humbled by the achievement of his predecessors.

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Note: it took me one and a half hours to write this and postpone work. If you do not accept Islam now I will probably have to throttle you :P. [just kidding, but not about the length it took me to write this]
Allah put the right choice into your heart. Ameen

[sarah1510]

Hi

Thankyou for the long and detaied reply, it was very beneficial. From reading your 2 posts i have now two questions for u.

They invent this third category where you have someone who determines the stronger opinion. This is nonsensical and in contradiction to the Quran and the verses quoted.

i thought this third category does exist? for e.g. lets say in the hanafi school of thought, two scholars may have a difference of opinion on a certain issue, another scholar will then have to determine which is the strongest of the opinion and thus isnt this third catergory fufilled i.e. determining a stronger opinion.

If however, somehow we did end up with such an imam. It would be obligatory upon one who has the qualifications to make ijtihad. He is not a layman, and so Taqlid is haram (forbidden) upon such a person. If he is verified to be qualified by the ulama of his time, and he has an usool (set of principles for deriving the laws) which has be verified, checked, considered to be valid and in line with the teachings of Islam, then anyone can make Taqlid of such a person. That would be perfectly permissible.

i find this part of your post very interesting because you say 'anyone can make Taqlid of such a person. That would be perfectly permissible'. what your saying seems to contradict everything in this thread: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...d-Mutlaq/page2

because in the thread one user says ' the stage of Ijtihad Itlaq has been closed by Ijma. so anyone following the "supposed" Mujtahid Mutlaq will be going against an Ijma.'

so going form what you say that anyone can make Taqlid of a mujtahid mutalaq if one happened to exist and 'that would be perfectly permissible.' would making taqleed of this mujtahid mutlaq only be allowed for people who are making taqleed directly? or would it continue so for e.g. the mujtahid mutlaq dies and those people who made taqleed of him pass his rlulings on..would/could a new school of thought then be established?

now if going by what was said on the other thread that 'The stage of Ijtihad Itlaq has been closed by Ijma', what are the reasons for the stages of Ijtihad Itlaq being closed? but since you disagree, you might not have any reasons.

once again thanks alot for the reply it helped alot and since you did say that i can more questions, i have done so

[sarah1510]

@ garbriel

thankyou sooooooooooo mcuh for the reply. i know it must have taken u a long time to write like uev said and may God reward u. i think it would b a good idea to maybe write a piece on the points i raised as stupid as they might have seemed to u, bcoz most of the literature ive been presented by muslimsin university has always been of why following a school of thought is an innovation and wrong and not from islam

Note: it took me one and a half hours to write this and postpone work. If you do not accept Islam now I will probably have to throttle you :P. [just kidding, but not about the length it took me to write this][/I]

that made me laugh, my heart is sooo close to accepting if that eases the pain of wriiting so much abit, thanks again

[fnaeem]

when talking about the door of ijtihad being closed, let me give you a rough analogy. even though there have been einsteins and bohrs in the field of physics and maths, but there has been no Newton who has totally rewritten the fundamentals of physics and maths. theoretically there can be another Newton, but there hasnt been one for 4 hundred years.

In addition taqwa ( god-fearingness) is a declining property over generations. in general the taqwa of a previous generations tends to be greater and the fitnahs ( challenges, problems) that they face tend to less. Think of high quality oil well, the best was easily had before,just bubbling to the surface. now you have to resort to deep sea drilling to get the same quality oil.

hope that helps