My Vision for Islam in Britain

[muminah]

http://www.1stethical.com/2010/09/my...am-in-britain/

[daywalk3r]

http://www.1stethical.com/2010/09/my...am-in-britain/

wow! He's read my mind.... This is exactly why we've done a few things here in our neck of the woods starting to get brothers and sisters involved and active in the wider society.....

[TripolySunni]

Salam Aleykum,

C'est intéressant

[Joshimitsu]

Salam,

I'm not one to shoot down a worthy cause, but there are a few things in this article that I think need to be highlighted.

There are no extra points for watering down our tradition, indeed that would be an epic fail in both this life and the next.

In that case, an ideal situation for Muslims in Britain would be to ensure their women do not leave their homes unless there is a real necessity and when they do come out they wear niqab. This is an aspect of authentic Islamic culture. How does that aid the agenda of being “seen in the same light as every other good, honest and mutually beneficial citizen of our country”? There is nothing mutually beneficial in the eyes of the secular Brit of not allowing Muslim women to engage in society in a free and outward way. Is the author suggesting we abandon this particular injunction for the sake of improving Islam's image or do we stick to our guns and accept the negative connotations that will inevitably follow?

If we are to learn anything from the increasing difficulties faced by Muslims in Europe, it’s the fact that the less we get involved with society, politics, the ruling system, business, management etc,

These things all require free-mixing and making compromises in the deen in some way or another. If you want to be a politician, you must abide and endorse the constitution, including equal rights for gays etc. This type of rhetoric is very nice, but let's not pretend that these things can be achieved whilst still maintaining the limits set by the shariah.

To develop halal sources of income and business opportunities for the masses, promoting higher level bona-fide interest-free investment opportunities for the all-important Muslim middle-class and businessmen, promoting Shari‘ah-compliant fiscal excellence:

It's a shame the author doesn't tell us how this can actually be done.

Likewise, Muslims also need to counter the negative images by producing literature in print and online

I imagine this literature will include things like death for apostasy, stoning of adulterers, discouraging women from leaving the home, killing of gays, public lashings etc which are all considered authentic teachings of traditional Islam. What happens to this type of literature? Do you print it or pretend Islam doesn't teach it? If you print it, how does that help Islam's image? If you sweep it under the rug then are you not simply trying to appease the West?

What concerns me about these kinds of articles is the naivety. You can't have it both ways; you either hold firm to the teachings of traditional Islam and face the consequences (e.g. negative media, limited wealth and power ) or you brush aside a few of the teachings to integrate better and achieve more as a community.

To say on the one hand we shouldn't water down our tradition whilst on the other hand calling for Muslims to shift the status quo is to completely misunderstand secular society or Islam, or possibly both. Secular Britain wants Muslims to abandon what they consider to be archaic concepts and values which directly contradict a 'progressive' society. That's how the image of Islam will improve. But then, it wouldn't be Islam any more.

[myusername]

Good points. Just a questions though, Islam doesn't advocate killing gays does it? It says that homosexuality is wrong and that we shouldn't partake. The onus of others sexuality isn't placed on us though... correct?

[ahmad12]

Not exactly. It is generally held that the death penalty exists for homosexuality in Islam. So, in the land of Islam, after the offence is proven in court according to the criteria of Islam, a homsexual can and probably will be sentenced to death for his crimes. This can obviously only be carried out by the state and not ordinary people as this would lead to anarchy.

[myusername]

Not exactly. It is generally held that the death penalty exists for homosexuality in Islam. So, in the land of Islam, after the offence is proven in court according to the criteria of Islam, a homsexual can and probably will be sentenced to death for his crimes. This can obviously only be carried out by the state and not ordinary people as this would lead to anarchy.

Right, so the homosexual would have to be blatant about their sex life correct? Or is it like if you were proven to be doing something in the confines of privacy, you'd still be executed? How exactly does the government balance privacy rights with those of punishing homosexuals (I'm assuming the ones that are open and "loud" about it are the ones who are punished).

[ahmad12]

Right, so the homosexual would have to be blatant about their sex life correct? Or is it like if you were proven to be doing something in the confines of privacy, you'd still be executed? How exactly does the government balance privacy rights with those of punishing homosexuals (I'm assuming the ones that are open and "loud" about it are the ones who are punished).

I'm not too sure about this but I think that the crime of homosexuality has to be proven in the same way that adultery has to be proven. This means a homosexual committing an act of sodomy with another man would have to have had this act witnessed by four reliable witnesses. Now, it is very hard to be considered as a reliable witness and I know for a fact that I wouldn't count as one, nor would any people I know except for two men who are absolute legends, who I have never known to have committed any sin (although obviously they must have committed some sin at some point).

Now, the crime of adultery is almost impossible to prove and the punishment will therefore be carried out when the adulterer confesses in most cases (the adulterer is under no obligation to confess) and so I assume this is the same for homosexuality. A scholar could correct me if I'm wrong.

Note: A person merely confessing to having sexual feelings for men would not be punished unless he confesses to carrying out homosexual acts (this is from what I understand- I am not a scholar). In fact, a person may need to admit this to a scholar/Shakh so that the correct treatment can be given to him for his condition.

Allah knows best

[gabriel]

Cracking post

But the only problem I have with these types of articles is the ...."we are as good as you".
This has been an exceptional productive method to strip the Muslim of his/her real identity as a person of servitude to Allah and try establish a standard that satisfies the 'other' [then Allah].

I had an argument with someone today about their obligation to their parent [mother], the complaint was generally a behaviour that you would get about an elderly person and some of it was valid, but I told the person that it was an obligation to not even say ooof to your parent and that is a right upon Allah as one of his obligation and there are severe consequences for not fulling the requirements Allah has set.

Ever since 9/11 and 7/7 there has been this need for Muslims to prove themselves. But there are massive amounts of good the Muslims have done for UK [not to mention helping this society rebuild after world war 2] and still doing, but we have seem to fallen prey to their critiscm of not 'meeting up to the standard' . It is OK for them to destroy the country through interest, corupt laws, class system, oppression, etc.

One of the favours we can do them is to start a rebelling against the banking system that is crippling the country.

Honestly if you really want to help the country you need to speak out and be a voice against the people in order to be a voice of the people. Cancer needs Kimo and Kimo is painful but it can be a cure for cancer.

Just my take on it......

[myusername]

I'm not too sure about this but I think that the crime of homosexuality has to be proven in the same way that adultery has to be proven. This means a homosexual committing an act of sodomy with another man would have to have had this act witnessed by four reliable witnesses. Now, it is very hard to be considered as a reliable witness and I know for a fact that I wouldn't count as one, nor would any people I know except for two men who are absolute legends, who I have never known to have committed any sin (although obviously they must have committed some sin at some point).

Now, the crime of adultery is almost impossible to prove and the punishment will therefore be carried out when the adulterer confesses in most cases (the adulterer is under no obligation to confess) and so I assume this is the same for homosexuality. A scholar could correct me if I'm wrong.

Note: A person merely confessing to having sexual feelings for men would not be punished unless he confesses to carrying out homosexual acts (this is from what I understand- I am not a scholar). In fact, a person may need to admit this to a scholar/Shakh so that the correct treatment can be given to him for his condition.

Allah knows best

Thanks, it makes complete sense.