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Thread: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

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    Senior Member faqir's Avatar
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    Default Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    A brother has compiled various quotes attributed to Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal by the 'Ulema which I thought I'd share here for the perusal of our Hanbali and non-Hanbali brothers and sisters on the forum :

    ON ATTRIBUTING A BODY (JISM) TO ALLAH


    The Imam and hadith master (hafiz) Ahmad ibn al-Husayn al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066) relates in his Manaqib al-Imam Ahmad [The memorable actions of Imam Ahmad], through his chain of narrators that:

    Ahmad condemned those who said Allah was a "body," saying, "The names of things are taken from the Shari‘a and the Arabic language. The language’s possessors have used this word [body] for something that has height, breadth, thickness, construction, form, and composition, while Allah Most High is beyond all of that, and may not be termed a "body" because of being beyond any meaning of embodiedness [emphasis mine]. This has not been conveyed by the Shari‘a, and so is refuted"

    source

    وروى البيهقي في مناقب الإمام أحمد بسنده عن أبي الفضل هذا أنه قال :"أنكر أحمد على من قال بالجسم وقال إن الأسماء مأخوذة من الشريعة واللغة، وأهل اللغة وضعوا هذا الإسم على ذي طول وعرض وسمك وتركيب وصورة وتأليف ، والله تعالى خارج عن ذلك كله فلم يجز أن يسمى جسماً لخروجه عن معنى الجسمية ولم يجيء في الشريعة ذلك فبطل ."


    Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: 'The one who says Allah is a body not like other bodies Blasphemes'.

    [Narrated by Abu Muhammad al Baghdadi in his book Al Khisal and Badr al-Din al-Zarkashi in his book Tashnif Al Masami' source]

    Similarly, Hafiz al-Bayhaqi quotes Imam Ahmad in Manaqib Ahmad: "A person commits an act of disbelief (kufr) if he says Allah is a body, even if he says: Allah is a body but not like other bodies." source]


    ON ATTRIBUTING LIMBS TO ALLAH


    In I'tiqad Imam Ahmad bi Riwaya Tamimi (page 4) the Imam is quoted as saying

    Allah ta'ala has Yadayn. They are attributes of His Essence which are not two limbs, nor two composite parts, nor a body...

    وكان يقول إن لله تعالى يدين وهما صفة له في ذاته ليستا بجارحتين وليستا بمركبتين و لا جسم ولا من جنس الأجسام ولا من جنس المحدود والتركيب ولا الأبعاض والجوارح



    ON ASCRIBING LIMITS TO ALLAH


    Al-Khallal reports from Imam Ahmad:

    Allāh has a Throne and the Throne has carriers carrying it while Allāh is on His Throne although He has no limit, and Allāh knows best its limit.


    [Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Aqīda Riwayata Abī Bakr al-Khallāl, ed. Abd al-Azīz Izz al-Dīn al-Sayrawan (Damascus: Dār Qutayba, 1988) p. 78.]

    Hanbal ibn Ishāq, the Imām's cousin reports from Imam Ahmad:

    Allāh is not to be described more than whatever He described Himself with, or His Prophet described Him with, without limit nor delimitation (bilā h.addin walā ghāya)


    [Narrated by Ibn Qudāma in Dhamm al-Ta'wīl (p. 20 #32)]

    and also via Hanbal, We believe that Allāh is on the Throne in the manner He wishes and however He wishes, without limit nor description anyone could give or define Him by.

    [Narrated by Abū Ya'lā in Ibtāl al-Ta'wīl per Ibn Taymiyya, Bayān Talbīs (2:173).]

    and, in commentary of the verse "And He is with you wheresoever you may be (57:4): [I.e.] His knowledge. His knowledge encompasses all, and our Lord is over the Throne without limit (bilā h.add) nor description.

    [Narrated by al-Dhahabī cf. Mukhta.sar al-'Uluw (p. 190 #229) and by al-Lālikāī.]

    ON ASCRIBING CHANGE TO ALLAH

    Abū al-Fadl al-Tamīmī narrates from Imam Ahmad: Allāh is not subject to change, substitution, nor limits, whether before or after the creation of the Throne.

    [Narrated by Ibn Abī Ya'lā, Tabaqāt al-Hanābila (2:296-297).]
    source


    POSITION TOWARDS THE 'ATTRIBUTE' VERSES

    Ibn Qudama in his Lum'at al-I'tiqad narrates:

    Imam Abu `Abdullah Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Hanbal - may Allah be pleased with him - has said regarding the Prophet's statements - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam- that Allah descends to the lowest heaven, that Allah will be seen on the day of Resurrection, and what resembles such statements. "We have faith and believe in them without [saying] how [is their modality] or [interpreting their] meaning. We do not reject any of [these reports]. We know that what the Messenger came with is the truth. We do not reject what the Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - has brought. Nor do we describe Allah with more than what He has described Himself without [ascribing to Him] a limit or an end. 'Like Him there is naught. And He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing.' (42:1 1). We say as He has said and we describe Him as He has described Himself. We do not transgress that. The descriptions of men do not reach Him. We believe in the whole of the Qur'an - its definitive (mukham) and its equivocal (mutashabih). We do not separate from Him any of His attributes due to the protests of anyone. We do not transgress the Qur'an and the hadith. Nor do we know the reality of [these attributes] except by believing the Messenger - sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam - and affirming the Qur'an."


    قال الإمام أبو عبد الله أحمد بن محمد بن حنبل رضي الله عنه في قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم إن الله ينزل الى سماء الدنيا و إن الله يرى في القيامة وما أشبه هذه الأحاديث نؤمن بها ونصدق بها لا كيف ولا معنى ولا نرد شيئا منها ونعلم أن ما جاء به الرسول حق ولا نرد على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا نصف الله بأكثر مما وصف به نفسه بلا حد ولا غاية (ليس كمثله شيء وهو السميع البصير) الشورى 11 ونقول كما قال ونصفه بما وصف به نفسه لا نتعدى ذلك ولا يبلغه وصف الواصفين نؤمن بالقرآن كله محكمه ومتشابهه ولا نزيل عنه صفة من صفاته لشناعة شنعت ولا نتعدى القرآن والحديث ولا نعلم كيف كنه ذلك إلا بتصديق الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم وتثبيت القرآن .

    source


    HIS TA'WIL OF CERTAIN VERSES


    The Qadi Abu Ya'la reported Ahmad b. Hanbal as having said that the verse "Allah will come to them" means that [he will come to them] through His power (qudra) and His command (amr), and in support of this interpretation he cited the verse "The command of your Lord (amru rabbika) will come." The expression "Your Lord will come," which is also found in the Torah, [was explained by Ahmad as meaning that] it is His power (qudra) only [that will come].

    [Ibn al-Jawzi, Daf Shubah al-Tashbih; c.f Ibn Hazm in al-Fisal 2:173]


    وكلامه في نفي التشبيه وترك الخوض في الكلام والتمسك بما ورد في الكتاب والسنة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وعن أصحابه.

    وروى البيهقي عن الحاكم عن أبي عمرو بن السماك عن حنبل أن أحمد بن حنبل تأول قول الله تعالى: (وجاء ربك) [ الفجر: 22 ] أنه جاء ثوابه.
    ثم قال البيهقي: وهذا إسناد لا غبار عليه.

    Regarding the verse:

    "And your Lord shall come . . ." (Qur'an 89:22),

    Hafiz al-Bayhaqi narrates Imam Ahmad explaining its meaning as "His recompense (thawab) shall come."

    Al-Bayhaqi adds, "This chain of narrators has absolutely nothing wrong in it"
    [al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya,10.342; c.f. Ibn al-Jawzi in Daf Shubah al-Tashbih source]
    Last edited by faqir; 09-12-2010 at 11:58 PM.
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Senior Member abul_hussain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    interesting reply to faqir on the above here

    http://www.asharis.com/creed/article...bin-hanbal.cfm

    looking forward to a counter reply by faqir.

    verily truth prevails and so let us see who is truthful.


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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes



    I don't know why that Madkhali website hasn't been banned yet, but it would do you good not to post the words of liars and of people who fight against Islam and Muslims.

    Besides that, it's pretty funny how the article criticizes brother Faqir for not using quotes from Imam Ahmad's close associates, mentioning al-Khalal , by name, when he actually does quote him!


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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes



    That website is a joke...it's like a kids comic!
    This guy abulhussein is at least showing his true colours
    He is a rabid wahhabi under the false guise of being a deobandi....hope the
    brothers on the forum realise this before they back him up agaain.

    Who would've thought it...wahhabis doing taqiyya.
    Oh the irony!


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    Senior Member abul_hussain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    accusations and more accusations and lies and more lies by brothers. C'mon, no need to discuss me, let us discuss the real matter which is the subject of the thread.
    if you want to accuse me or lie on me, open a new thread and continue with your usual mud-slinging competition. I don't know you will ace but looks like faqir will do it since he already showed his way.

    @ man-eating-lizard
    1) can you please prove that it is madkhali website

    2) can you please prove that asharis.com is lying website. if you do that it will save everyone's time, but if you don't do that then you are what you accuse others of.

    3) man-eating-lizard, you are very close to a takferi ! you made an accusation "who fight against Islam and Muslims." can you prove from shariah ? otherwise what a grave accusation.

    4) that is the part I of the article...part II and III and IV yet to released.

    @ sunniseeker
    you find that website a joke and i find the website marifah . net a bigger joke and websites of jifri and other barelwi the biggest joke...

    2) you are a liar as well. I am not a wahhabi. please put up or shut up with your lies.



    Looks, like some brothers when they cannot answer to the objections raised, best way to reply is to resort to lies , swearing, cursing, and mud-slinging. this only proves my point that you people are no different than rabid halwa barelwis.....


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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    Quote Originally Posted by abul_hussain View Post
    @ man-eating-lizard
    1) can you please prove that it is madkhali website


    You mean besides the fact that it is part of the Madkhali network, "spubs?"

    It's linked on the front page of their forums:

    http://www.salafitalk.net/st/

    Quote Originally Posted by abul_hussain View Post
    2) can you please prove that asharis.com is lying website. if you do that it will save everyone's time, but if you don't do that then you are what you accuse others of.
    Read the article which you posted yourself.

    It claims that brother faqir left quotes of Imam Ahmad's close associates for those of later Ashari-influenced Hanblais, going so far as to name al-Khalal as one of the people who should have been quoted, when al-Khalal is actually quoted! Obviously, this is blatant dishonesty, but the writers of this article don't care, because they know that their readership is composed mostly of Madkhalis, who will never actually bother to read the original article.

    Besides that, calling faqir a Jahmi is an obvious lie and slander.

    Quote Originally Posted by abul_hussain View Post
    3) man-eating-lizard, you are very close to a takferi ! you made an accusation "who fight against Islam and Muslims." can you prove from shariah ? otherwise what a grave accusation.
    If you think this is an accusation, you need to read up more on Madkhalis. Fighting against Islam is their m.o.

    Quote Originally Posted by abul_hussain View Post
    4) that is the part I of the article...part II and III and IV yet to released.
    And what can we expect? More brazen lies?


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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    Jazakumullahu Khairan Sidi Faqir, as more of the authentic statements of the Salaf have to be posted in order to show the truth as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by faqir View Post

    Regarding the verse:

    "And your Lord shall come . . ." (Qur'an 89:22),

    Hafiz al-Bayhaqi narrates Imam Ahmad explaining its meaning as "His recompense (thawab) shall come."

    Al-Bayhaqi adds, "This chain of narrators has absolutely nothing wrong in it"
    [al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya,10.342; c.f. Ibn al-Jawzi in Daf Shubah al-Tashbih source]
    The article that was mentioned did not comment on the chain: Imam bayhaqi from Al7akim from Abi 3umar bin Summak from imam Ahmad.

    Imam Bayhaqi says "laa ghubaara 3laihi"


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    Senior Member faqir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    This is just another in a long line of pathetic articles on slandering asharis.com by one of Rabee’s pet dogs on the internet. He appears to have got his knickers in a twist again, this time over these quotes attributed to Imam Ahmad RH by 'ulema he shamelessly attacks who are far greater than his Rabee he spends so much time defending will ever be. He should have asked his master Rabee to help him pull his knickers up as it may have prevented him publicly defecating once more in cyber space. I really would not like to stoop down to his dirty level but perhaps unless I do so it may not penetrate the large space in between his followers like abul hussain's ears when, in fact, such scum actually deserve to be publicly whipped for disparaging the ash’aris as the Jurists have decreed.

    The Mad-khalee who is probably an uneducated, unemployed low life with far too much time on his hands starts out what I am sure will be pages and pages of waffle in his usual fashion of insult and slander by labelling me a ‘Jahmee’. Jahm b. Safwan, was a disbeliever according to Imam Ahmad so this is perhaps just his way of satisfying his innate Wahabbi rabid passion for takfir and Allah knows best. In truth there exist no Jahmees today and, if anything, it is these mad-khalees who share with him in some of his beliefs like the occurrence of events in Allah’s Essence , etc. which can be discussed at another time, insha’Allah.

    The blind mad-khalee then says:

    And a person would think: Mmm... we are going to see quotes from the famous and well-known close associates of Imam Ahmad like Al-Khallaal……
    Obviously the mad-khalee can’t read as the brother’s compilation included quotes from al-Khallaal as mentioned by our brother above!

    He then goes on to discount a couple of the quotes because they are from the al-Tamimi Hanbalis who in his eyes are ‘Ash’arified’ because ‘they had cordiality and good frienship with the Ash'arites of their times’. In truth, no quote will satisfy these people unless it agrees with their confused and twisted creed. No wonder then that Ibn al-Salah was quoted here as saying: “Two imams have been afflicted because of their followers although they are innocent of them: Ahmad b. Hanbal was tried with the anthropomorphists (al-mujassima), and Ja‘far al-Sadiq with the [Shi‘i] Rejectionists (al-Râfida).” [Quoted by Shaykh Tajud-Din al-Subki in his Qa‘ida (p. 43), and in his Tabaqat al-Shafi‘iyya al-Kubra (2:17).]

    The rabid mad-khalee goes on to refer to the book he wants us to take our Aqida from called al-Radd `ala al-Jahmiyyah. In his defense of this book he quotes.

    Adh-Dhahabi said (Siyar 11/286-287):

    وكتاب الرد على الجهمية الموضوع على أبي عبد الله، فإن الرجل كان تقيا ورعا، لا يتفوه بمثل ذلك ، ولعله قاله

    And the book "ar-Radd alal-Jahmiyyah" fabricated upon Abu Abdullaah, then the man was pious and god-fearing, he would not speak with the likes of that, but perhaps he did say it (i.e. the book).
    The mad-khalee then goes on to build a strawman argument unnecessarily showing that this book was attributed to the Imam by others. All of his effort and pages of writing because of his poor comprehension of al-Dhahabi’s statement as Sh. Gibril mentioned in the past and was posted here

    They misunderstand the Arabic of al-Dhahabi's statement, "and perhaps he did say it." Al-Dhahabi is actually saying: "And he probably did have a Radd" but he is strongly asserting that the radd that had reached them is certainly not, in that form, the words of Imam Ahmad--even if it seduced Ibn al-Qayyim in his anthopomorphist manifesto Ijtima` al-juyush al-Islamiyya although he himself confesses that the chain of transmission contains a majhul!

    PS It is not 'wajjaada' but 'wijaada', not ….
    We recommend the nincompoop go back to primary school to develop his reading skills to a satisfactory level.

    Madkhali’s pet dog then goes on to complain about a translation posted above sourced to a sh. Nuh piece of a quote that Imam al-Bayhaqi narrates from Abu al-Fadl al-Tamimi. He pretends that there is an attempt to ‘deceive the reader’ and that there is a ‘scorpion’ in action here. He requires a psychiatrist as he appears to be in a delusional state of mind.

    Others more knowledgeable in the language than I are welcome to correct me but I believe that with slight alteration to the introductory sentence from Sh. Nuh’s translation the following translation is accurate insha’Allah:

    وروى البيهقي في مناقب الإمام أحمد بسنده عن أبي الفضل هذا أنه قال :"أنكر أحمد على من قال بالجسم وقال إن الأسماء مأخوذة من الشريعة واللغة، وأهل اللغة وضعوا هذا الإسم على ذي طول وعرض وسمك وتركيب وصورة وتأليف ، والله تعالى خارج عن ذلك كله فلم يجز أن يسمى جسماً لخروجه عن معنى الجسمية ولم يجيء في الشريعة ذلك فبطل

    [The Imam and hadith master (hafiz) Ahmad ibn al-Husayn] al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066) relates in his Manaqib al-Imam Ahmad [The memorable actions of Imam Ahmad] with his chain on the authority of Abu al-Fadl that he said:

    "[Imam] Ahmad censured the one who believed in corporeality [qala bi al-jism], saying, 'The Names of things are taken from the Shari'a and the Arabic language. The language's possessors have used this word [body] for something that has height, breadth, thickness, construction, form, and composition, while Allah Most High is beyond all of that, and may not be termed a "body" because of being beyond any meaning of embodiedness. This has not been conveyed by the Shari'a, and so is refuted ' "


    The statement speaks for itself and does not need a madkhalee’s overly verbose explanation.

    Even in the unlikely case that there is another narration proving that Abu al-Fadl said the second phrase, there is no way any sincere and unbigoted person can infer from this passage that someone is intentionally lying and making up stuff as Madkhalee’s pet dog is trying to portray. In other words, it is from Imam Ahmad or at least a "wajh" of interpretation in Arabic. Furthermore were we to accept that the mad-khalee was right, his trying to make out he understands the words and application of Imam Ahmad’s statement better than Abu al-Fadl al-Tamimi is laughable. Again a psychiatrist may be able to help with his delusions of grandeur.

    I could go on dissecting the Madkhalee’s pet's article but I don’t want to bore everyone here the way he bores all his readers. Neither am I interested in any other of his 20 Part series which is likely to follow. Suffice to repeat that no narration will be acceptable to the pseudo-salafis unless it agrees with their own screwed up Creed. This is why one can argue that it is probably a futile exercise to argue based on scholarly quotes as the problem is in the underlying premises. At the end of the day, we don't base our belief on a quote from a scholar. We say Imam Ahmad believed correctly, because we think highly of him and the above compilation is helpful to defend the Imam but thats it. I do, however, wonder if it is really worth the time and effort. Allah knows best and May He forgive my own mistakes.
    Last edited by faqir; 22-12-2010 at 08:48 PM.
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Senior Member abul_hussain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    Part II of the article has been posted which talks about Hafidh Khallaal
    http://www.asharis.com/creed/article...d---part-2.cfm

    and

    Original Manuscripts from Tabyin Kadhib al-Muftari also posted which again exposes the dishonesty of certain group and individuals affiliated with their own version of Ashari creed.
    http://www.asharis.com/creed/article...r-singular.cfm


    faqir who is an ace-abuser calls asharis.com authors ( " biatches " ) and still is the admin/mod of marifah net ; Cannot understand the language used by this person and yet claims to defend the Kullabi Creed ? Barelwi influence ?

    LET IT BE CLEAR TO EVERYONE WHO THESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE: FAQIR OR GF HADDAD OR THEIR FOLLOWERS. (apart from cursing and swearing used by these barelwi type guys )

    GF Haddad on Imam Hafidh Khallal
    Q.4) Sheikh Nuh mentions is one of his articles a quote from Imam Ahmad from a book entitled al-Sunnah by Imam Khallal. However, this book alledgedly contains anthropomorphist statements. Was Imam Khallal an anthropomorphist?

    A. Definitely, as was his Hanbali peer Abu Muhammad al-Barbahari. The latter never sat to teach except he mentioned that Allah seats the Prophet (saws) "next to Him" on the Throne, and the former said in al-Sunna that whoever denies such a belief is a "Jahmi Kafir Zindiq." This is not to detract from al-Khallal's stature as the earliest major codifier of the Hanbali Madhhab. And Allah knows best.
    So, we have someone after 1000 years to come and tell us that Imam Khalaal and Imam Barbahari were anthropomorphists ? Did any scholars say the same thing or this is from their own pockets.

    Really, sometimes, you are confused. these people - including Nuh keller -- accuse salafis to be reformers where as upon closer examination you find the accusers themselves are the reformers. You find the accusers accusing the opponents of lying and distorting but in the end you find the accusers themselves as distorting and twisting. what's happening ? A Barelwi urs halwa dose ? or is it the hadra dance ...?


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    Senior Member abul_hussain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quotes Attributed to Imam Ahmad on Allah and His Attributes

    Quote Originally Posted by by ace-abuser faqir
    The rabid madkhaleeatch goes on to refer to the book he wants us to take our Aqida from called al-Radd `ala al-Jahmiyyah. In his defense of this book he quotes.

    Adh-Dhahabi said (Siyar 11/286-287):

    وكتاب الرد على الجهمية الموضوع على أبي عبد الله، فإن الرجل كان تقيا ورعا، لا يتفوه بمثل ذلك ، ولعله قاله

    And the book "ar-Radd alal-Jahmiyyah" fabricated upon Abu Abdullaah, then the man was pious and god-fearing, he would not speak with the likes of that, but perhaps he did say it (i.e. the book).
    The mad-khalee-atch then goes on to build a strawman argument unnecessarily showing that this book was attributed to the Imam by others. All of his effort and pages of writing because of his poor comprehension of al-Dhahabi’s statement as Sh. Gibril mentioned in the past and was posted here

    Do you guys pick and take what goes with your creed ?

    Why do you follow now DHAHABI and LEAVE IBN HAJAR ASQALANI WHO SAYS IBN HANBAL DID WRITE THIS BOOK ?

    Mention by Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani in Fath ul-Bari

    Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani explains in Fath ul-Bari in "Kitaab ut-Tawheed", the chapter on "Do Not Set Up Rivals for Allaah":

    والخامس‏:‏ أنه كلام الله غير مخلوق، أنه لم يزل يتكلم إذا شاء، نص على ذلك أحمد في كتاب الرد على الجهمية، وافترق أصحابه فرقتين‏:‏ منهم من قال هو لازم لذاته والحروف والأصوات مقترنة لا متعاقبة ويسمع كلامه من شاء، أكثرهم قالوا إنه متكلم بما شاء متى شاء، وأنه نادى موسى عليه السلام حين كلمه ولم يكن ناداه من قبل

    Which translates:

    The fifth: That it is the speech of Allaah, uncreated, that He has not ceased to be one who speaks when He wills. Ahmad textually stated this in the book "ar-Radd alal-Jahmiyyah", and his associates split into two factions: Amongst them are those who said that it (the Qur'an) is inherent, imperative to His essence, and that the letters and voices are simultaneous and not successive, and that He causes whomever He wills to hear His speech. But the majority of them (associates of Ahmad) said that He is one who speaks (mutakallim) with whatever He wills, whenever He wills and that He called out to Moses (alayhis salaam) when He spoke to him, and had not called out to him previously.
    http://www.aqidah.com/creed/print.cfm?uwljr
    a detailed research on this book here
    http://forums.*********************/...am-ahmad-2039/
    http://forums.*********************/...-hanbal-36529/
    http://www.darultawhid.com/en/forum/...hp?topic=627.0


    don't really know who the nincompoop is ? the one who uses the language of cursing like " biatches " or the one who present the facts and let the readers decide ?


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