If it's not halal is it haram?

[avid]

Assalamualaikum,

Had a discussion with someone about machine-slaughtered chicken (the type where it is not possible to recite tasmiya on each animal and a muslim person is not slaugthering rather it is a machine and stunning takes place prior to slaughter). Now prominent Hanafi muftiyaan have given detailed fatwas that this type of slaughter is not allowed and the chicken would be impermissible to eat.

The question I received from the other person was something along the lines of that we often hear words and phrases like 'impermissible', 'not allowed to eat' etc. but can you call this haram? i.e. if the chicken was not slaughtered properly in the method mentioned above, where ulema said we can't eat it - can we use the term 'haram'?

Note: this was not a discussion of whether or not we can eat this, we absolutely agreed that we can't eat such meat - the question was simply about using the term 'haram'

Looking forward to your responses - particularly any ulema.

JazakAllahu Khairan

[Hafiz Gee]

Salam,

not permissible = haram

illegal = haram

impermissible = haram

permissible = halal

disliked = makruh

prohibitively disliked = makruh tahrimi (practically haram - Laissez-faire, leave off)

these terms are always used to mean the above. i have never come across fatwas where impermissible (or other synonyms) are used for anything other than haram. machine slaughter chicken = haram = impermissible.

p.s. don't let the meat of the christians or jews argument fool you. besides machines don't have a faith.

[avid]

JazakAllahu Khairan. Alhamdolillah I do not ever buy the present day 'ahle kitab' argument and nor do I buy the 'machine-slaughter' argument. My question was just around this weird and ridiculous notion that seems to have spread amongst some people, especially in North America, that chicken and beef are 'inherently halal'. People cringed when I called such unlawful chicken 'haram' and they were hesitant to use that term - and I have come across this many times so just perplexed me a bit.

The issue around 'not permissible', etc. is that it is hard to convey a shari'e ruling that way, because at times it may also be used for makrooh tahrimi, which while sinful is not haram (not that we should take makrooh-tahrimi lightly in any way).

Out of curiosity, what about things such as lobsters, Hanafi fatawa indicate they are impermissible to consume - are they regarded in our madhab as makrooh tahrimi or haram?

Anyways, I hope this doesn't become an unproductive discussion about the basis of the rulings themselves (i.e. on machine slaughter, lobsters, etc.) because are sound and re-affirmed by countless ulema Alhamdolillah, so I don't mean to discuss that.

It is just this thing I have noticed that people are very hesitant to label unlawful chicken or beef as haram, which provides a perfect avenue for shaytaan to come in and coax people with all the pathetic arguments on these issues that are so prevalent these days.

[meelash]

Just memorize that aayah of the Qur'aan: Hurrima 'alaikumul maytatu until the end, and recite it to those people. The word hurrima is explicitly stated there...

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

Salaam alaikum,

We should try to raise our own animals for food (I know its not possible for everyone). I am doing that here where I live al hamdulillah.
Yesterday, I bought baking flour to make our own bread, and I did not look at the ingredients because I thought, "Well, flour is flour." Boy was I wrong. My wife found L cystiene hydrochloride or some strange name like that. Called up the producer and found out it an amino acid derived from poultry feathers. GROSS. I don't know if it is halal or haram, but the thought of that grossed me out, so we took the flour back. They put anything in everything now. Insha'Allah Rahman, in the spring we will grow our own wheat and try to make flour out of this. Please make du'a.

[Hafiz Gee]

Salam,

a friend of mine, who went to the same madrassa as myself, now studying in karachi, told me that according to his "pir" shrimp is halal. his shaykh first agreed witht he majority opinion of hanafis that all non-fish = haram, shrimp being thought of as a "non-fish here" but after his own inquiries came to a different conclusion. his "pir" is Mufti Taqi Usmani, so basicly i'm inclined to follow this, it is Mufti Taqi Usmani after all, even though South African/Guji hanafis oppose this tooth and nail. i know this has nothing to do with lobster but i thought it was somewhat related.