Objectionable beliefs/statements of Salafi scholars in relation to Allah's attributes

[faqir]

DIRECT LINKS TO INFORMATION REGARDING SOME OF THE ATTRIBUTES OF A PSEUDO - SALAFI'S GOD:

1) Salafis believe that 'declaring Allah transcendent beyond possessing body (al-jism), pupils (al-hadaqa), auditory meatus (al-simâkh), tongue (al-lisân), and larynx (al-hanjara) ... is not the position of Ahl al-Sunna but rather that of the scholars of condemned kalâm and their contrivance'.

2) Salafis believe in a God surrounding the universe.

3) Salafis believe in a God who has a shadow.

4) Salafis believe in a God who jogs.

5) Salafis believe in a God who sits.

6) Salafis believe in a God who has limits.

7) Salafis believe in a God who has a form.

8) Salafis believe in a God located in a direction.

9) Salafis believe in a God who has a waist.

10) Salafis believe in a God who gets bored.

11) Salafis believe in a God who hesitates.

12) Salafis believe in a God who settles on a throne.

13) Salafis believe in a God who is silent.

14) Salafis say God moves

15) Salafis say God does smelling



[to be updated, insha'Allah]

---------------

Salafis object to Muslims declaring Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala transcendent beyond possessing body, parts and limbs:

Pseudo-Salafi 'shaykh' Ibn Baz said:

أهل السنة لا ينفون عن الله إلا ما نفاه عن نفسه
9- ثم ذكر الصابوني - هداه الله - تنزيه الله سبحانه عن الجسم والحدقة والصماخ
واللسان والحنجرة ، وهذا ليس بمذهب أهل السنة بل هو من أقوال أهل الكلام
المذموم وتكلفهم ، فإن أهل السنة لا ينفون عن الله إلا ما نفاه عن نفسه أو
نفاه رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا يثبتون له إلا ما أثبته لنفسه أو أثبته له
رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يرد في النصوص نفي هذه الأمور ولا إثباتها
فالواجب الكف عنها وعدم التعرض لها لا بنفي ولا إثبات ، ويغني عن ذلك قول
أهل السنة في إثبات صفات الله وأسمائه أنه لا يشابه فيها خلقه وأنه سبحانه لا
ند له ولا كفو له. قال الإمام أحمد رحمه الله: (لا يوصف الله إلا بما وصف به نفسه
أو وصفه به رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يتجاوز القرآن والحديث).

Source

Translation:

9_ Then As-Sabuni –May Allah guide him- mentioned declaring Allah transcendent beyond possessing body (al-jism), pupils (al-hadaqa), auditory meatus (al-simâkh), tongue (al-lisân), and larynx (al-hanjara); [End of Sabuni's words- beginning of Ibn Baz's words] and this is not the position of Ahl al-Sunna but rather that of the scholars of condemned kalâm and their contrivance , for Ahl As-sunnah do not negate something about Allah except what He negates about Hisself or what his Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم negated, and they do not affirm for Him (Allah) except what He affirmed for Hisself or what the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم affirmed for Him, and it was not mentioned in the nusoos (the Quran and Sunnah) negation of these things (that As-Sabuni mentioned) or its affirmation; so it is obligatory to stop there and not to confront it with neither negation or affirmation, and what Ahl As-sunnah said suffices in the affirmation of Allah's attributes and names that He does resemble in it his creation, and that He (glorified be He) has no match. Imam Ahmad [rahimahu Allah] said: "Allah is not to be described except with what He described Himself with or what His Messenger described Him with, it does not exceed the Quran and Hadith".


............

Similarly the Wahhabi editor of "I'itiqad A'immat Al-Hadith", a book attributed to Al-Hafidh Abu Bakr Al-Isma'ili (d. 371 H.) objected to the following statement:

ولا يعتقد فيه الأعضاء، والجوارح، ولا الطول والعرض، والغلظ، والدقة، ونحو هذا مما يكون مثله في الخلق، وأنه ليس كمثله شيء تبارك وجه ربنا ذو الجلال والإكرام.

"We do not believe that He (Allah swt) is composed of parts or limbs, nor do we believe that He is attributed with length or width.."


In his explanatory footnote the editor said, as translated Here and posted on the 'Salafi' Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth forums here:

These terms are not from among the known terms to Ahlus-Sunnah wal- Jamaa`ah from among the Salaf (pious predecessors) of this nation, rather, it is from the innovated terms of the heretics, and expressing the truth with the Islaamic terms is the path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah. So it is not needed for the seeker of the truth to pay attention to these types of terms and reliance upon them, and the Imaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him, the author, was not free from using these words. Indeed Allaah (), is attributed with the complete attributes and is described with the exalted descriptions. So regardless of the matter, the falsehood is rejected from the one who says it, regardless of whom it may be.

Note: In the introduction to the translation the editor of this text is mentioned to be the contemporary Pseudo-Salafi theologian 'Shaykh' Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Rahmân Al-Khumayyis. And Allah knows best.

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

Salaam alaikum,

Does a Salafi believe that there is such attributes as hand, face, shin, etc? Where is this mentioned that these are Eternal Attributes of Allah ta'ala? How do they arrive at such conclusions?

Are you sure that they say that Allah ta'ala literally has a face, hand, etc?

[faqir]

Salafis say Allah is Surrounding the World

Says the Pseudo-Salafi 'Shaykh' al-Albani:

قال في تعليقه على صحيح الترغيب والترهيب ( 1 / 116 ) من طبعة المكتب الإسلامي الثانية 1406 هـ* ما نصه :

فائدة هامة : اعلم أن قوله في هذا الحديث : فإن الله قبل وجهه .

وفي الحديث الذي قبله فإن الله عز وجل بين أيديكم في صلاتكم لا ينافي كونه تعالى على عرشه ، فوق مخلوقاته كلها كما تواترت فيه نصوص الكتاب والسنة ، وآثار الصحابة والسلف الصالح رضي الله عنهم ، ورزقنا الاقتداء بهم ، فإنه تعالى مع ذلك واسع محيط بالعالم وقد أخبر أنه حيثما توجه العبد فإنه مستقبل وجه الله عزوجل ، بل هذا شأن مخلوقه المحيط بما دونه ، فإن كل خط يخرج من المركز إلى المحيط ، فإنه يستقبل وجه المحيط ويواجهه .

وإذا كان عالي المخلوقات يستقبل سافلها المحاط بها بوجهه من جميع الجهات والجوانب ، فكيف بشأن من هو بكل شئ محيط ، وهو محيط ولا يحاط به ؟ وراجع بسط هذا في كتب شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية كالحموية والواسطية وشرحها للشيخ = ( * ) زيد بن عبد العزيز بن فياض ( ص 203 - 213 )

rough translation:

He said in his footnotes on Sahih at-Targhib wat-tarhib, from the 1406 Hijri edition of al-Maktab al-Islami ath-thani, and I quote,

'Important (point of) benefit: know that his statement in this hadith, 'Allah is in front of his face,' and in the previous hadith, 'Allah Azza wa jalla is in front of you during your Salat,' does not negate His being on/above the throne (and) above all of his creations, as the text of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and the reports of the Companions and Pious Predecessors report by tawatur (may Allah be pleased with them and may He grant that we follow them). Despite that, Allah is expansive and encompasses the world, and has informed us that wherever the slave faces, he is facing the Face of Allah (azza wa jalla). In fact, this is even the state of that of His creation which surrounds something other than itself as all lines that come from the center towards what it is surrounded by face the surrounding object. So if a creation high up faces what it is lower than and is surrounded by, with its surface, from all directions and sides, then what about the One that surrounds everything, and He is surrounding and not surrounded?

See the detail of this in books of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah and like Al-Hamawiyah and al-Wasitiyah and its sharh by Shaykh Zayd Bin Abdul Aziz Bin Fayyad (p. 203 - 213)

This is something similar to what was mentioned by the pseudo-Salafi theologian 'Shaykh' Haitham Hamdan who is an administrator of the Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth forums:

1) Allah SWT could be either inside the world or outside the world ... It is a matter of agreement among main stream Muslims that He is outside the world. Being inside the world means that He SWT mixes with impurities, an aspect of imperfection.

2) The universe is round (sperical).

3) Relative to itself, a sperical shape can only have two directions: a top and a bottom.

4) For a sperical shape, bottom is towards its center, above is away from its center.

5) Allah SWT is certainly away from the center of the world, so He is certainly above it.

...and a diagram of Um Abdullah / NMS / Musleemah also posted on the same Ahl al-Hadeeth forum:

[faqir]

Salafis say Allah has a Shadow



Says Pseudo-salafi 'Shaykh' Ibn Baz:

http://www.binbaz.org.sa/mat/4234

مسألة في الصفات
في حديث السبعة الذين يظلهم الله في ظله يوم لا ظل إلا ظله، فهل يوصف الله تعالى بأن له ظلاً؟



نعم كما جاء في الحديث، وفي بعض الروايات: ((في ظل عرشه))[1] لكن الصحيحين ((في ظله))، فهو له ظل يليق به سبحانه لا نعلم كيفيته مثل سائر الصفات، الباب واحد عند أهل السنة والجماعة. والله ولي التوفيق.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] أخرجه البخاري في كتاب الأذان، باب من جلس في المسجد ينتظر الصلاة، برقم 660، ومسلم في كتاب الزكاة، باب فضل إخفاء الصدقة، برقم 1031.

مجموع فتاوى ومقالات متنوعة المجلد الثامن والعشرون

Rough Translation:

Issue relating to the Attributes [of Allah]:

In the hadith of the seven of those who will be shaded by Allah in His shadow on the day that there is no shadow save His shadow, is this attributing Allah the Exalted with a shadow?

Answer:

Yes, as is reported in the Hadith and in some transmissions : "in the shadow of His throne". But, in the Sahihayn it is : "in His shadow" for He has a shadow that is befitting to Him, the Glorious, and we do not know its modality (Kayf) just like the rest of His attributes...


Useful Anecdote:

Unlike 'shaykh' Ibn Baz, one of his own major colleagues from the Salafi theologians negates this so-called Attribute he affirms for Allah! The notorious Rabi' Ibn Hadi al-Madkhalee says that the shadow is the shade of the 'Arsh

[naqshbandiosmanli]

[Please note: if any mistakes are found in the translations of the quotes (mostly taken from Salafi websites) please do point them out and I will glady accept and fix any mistakes]


Salafis say Allah is Surrounding the World

Says Sh. al-Albani:



This is something similar to what I noticed from someone called sh. Haitham Hamdan who is an administrator of the multaqa ahl al-hadeeth forums:



...and a diagram of Um Abdullah also posted on the same forum:




Anyhow, al-Albani is saying that the world is physically surrounded or encompassed by Allah, implying that the world is physically inside of Him practically likening Him to a pregnant woman!

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

Salaam alaikum,

Allah protect us from diagrams of batil! How a person can even dare to draw a diagram of Allah's Existence is beyond belief!

So do they then believe that Allah can change, or do they believe the creation is beginningless eternal? Do they say then that creation is an Attribute of Allah, or do they say that it is part of Allah?

[faqir]

Salafis say Allah performs Jogging / Trotting


In Fatawa al-Aqida Pseudo Salafi 'shaykh' Muhammad b. Salih b. Uthaimin, page 112, is quoted saying:

وأي مانع يمنع من أن نؤمن بأن الله تعالى يأتي هرولة

"What could forbid us from believing that Allah performs jogging/trotting [harwala]?"

And this is from the Lajnatud-Da'imah lil-Buhuthul `Ilmiyyah wal-Ifta / The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Fatawa (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia):

فتاوى اللجنة الدائمة للبحوث العلمية والإفتاء ج3ص196 :
( س : هل لله صفة الهرولة ؟
ج : نعم ، على نحو ما جاء في الحديث القدسي الشريف على ما يليق به قال تعالى : إذا تقرب إليّ العبد شبرا تقربت إليه ذراعا وإذا تقرب إليّ ذراعا تقربت منه باعاً وإذا أتاني ماشياً أتيته هرولة . رواه البخاري وسلم ).

Rough Translation:

Q: Is Jogging (Harwala) an attribute of Allah?

A: Yes, as it has been shown in the Hadith Qudsi al-Shareef ..... "... and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running." Narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim.



Link to KSA Website




Useful Anecdote:


The pseudo salafi theologian Salih b. Fawzan al-Fawzan negates what the Lajna' say is an 'attribute' of Allah:

الهرولة ليست بصفة لله) العلامة صالح بن فوزان الفوزان -حفظه الله) -

[faqir]

Salafis say Allah has a 'Form' / Image

Abd Allah al-Hashidi the "Salafi" editor of al-Bayhaqi's al-Asma' wal-Sifat (2:60) openly attributes form and shape to Allah Most High:

"As for our Lord, we affirm that He possesses a form (sura)"

and (2:67)

"As for us we affirm a form (sura) for Allah unlike forms."

Similarly, the Egyptian 'Salafi' scholar Mohammed Khalil Harras......

هو العلاَّمة، السلفيُّ، المحقِّق، محمد خليل هرَّاس
كان رحمه الله سلفي المعتقد، شديدًا في الحقّ، قويّ الحجّة والبيان، أفنى حياته في التعليم والتأليف ونشر السنة وعقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة

....who salafis describe as:

"He was Salafi in creed, stern in establishing the truth, persuasive in establishing his proof, he spent his life teaching, authoring, and spreading the creed of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'a"


says on p. 39 of his commentary on "At-Tawhid" by Ibn Khuzayma:

فالصورة لا تضاف إلى الله كإضافة خلقه إليه لأنها وصف قائم به

"So 'Image' is not attributed to Allah the way his creation is attributed to Him, because it (His image), is an attribute which subsists in His essence"

and on pg. 156:

ثم تبدى الله لنا بصورة غير صورته التي رأيناه فيها أول مرة ، وقد عاد لنا في صورته التي رأيناه فيها أول مرة فيقول أنا ربكم

"Then he appeared to us with an image which is different then what we have previously seen, and He returned to us in the image we first saw him in and says: 'I am your Lord' "

Useful anecdote:

Salafi theologian Sulaiman al-Alwan is quoted on the Ahl al-Hadeeth forum calling out the pseudo salafis' own major reference in `Aqida Ibn Khuzayma, author of the book Kitab al-Tawhid (which was renamed Kitab al-Shirk by Fakhr al-Razi), for his supposed "ta'wil" of 'image' stating:

وأما تأويل ابن خزيمة-رحمه الله تعالى- لحديث ((خلق الله آدم على صورته)) فإنه خلاف الحق ، وهو معدود من أخطائه، والله يعفو عنه ، ولا يجوز لنا التشبث بأخطاء العلماء وزلاتهم ، فإن تتبع زلات العلماء من هوادم الإسلام

rough translation:

As for Ibn Khuzayma's interpretation (taw'il) of the hadith, 'Allah created Adam upon his image,' it stands contrary to the truth, and is to be counted among his errors, may Allah pardon him. It is not permissible for us to adhere to the errors and slips of the scholars, for following the slips of scholars is one of the things that tears down the edifice of Islam.

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Salafis say Allah has a Shadow



Says Sh. Ibn Baz [may Allah have mercy on him]:

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim,

Salaam alaikum,

So does Allah also have an Attribute of forgetfulness that befits Him? Allah forgive me. How do they arrive at the point of discernment between say, Allah has an attribute called 'shadow' and Allah does not have an attribute called 'forgetfulness'?

As the verse says;

They have forgotten Allah, so He has forgotten them- 9:67

Would they take this verse literally? If not, do they do ta'weel of it?

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Salafis say Allah performs Jogging / Trotting

In Fatawa al-Aqida sh. Muhammad b. Salih b. Uthaimin, page 112, is quoted saying:

Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

Salaam alaikum,

Are you sure that this is not taken out of context? What site did this come from? Because if this is taken to mean what it says, it raises the obvious question; jogging to where? From one place to another? So Allah has states that change? And then what follows is, if Allah changes from 'state to state' and from 'place to place', He is bound by time. And if He is bound by time, He can not be beginninglessly eternal, and therefore, not necessarily existant. And ultimately, who believes in a 'god' like this, only worships a creation. May Allah save us.

But I am holding out, because I have never heard a salafi say these kind of things. I would prefer to believe that these are taken out of context, not intentionally, but just out of hope.

[faqir]

Salafis Say Allah has a Waist [Haqwu]


A well known senior Salafi shaykh named Abdullah bin Aqeel says in his book "Tanbihat ala al-Akhta'a Al-'aqadiyyah fi Fath Al-Bari" (Warnings about the Mistakes in Aqidah mentioned in Fath Al-Bari), 1/31, as a refutation of Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani who made ta'wil of haqw the following:

لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله!الواجب الإيمان بما دل عليه الحديث وإمراره كما جاء على حقيقته كباقي نصوص الصفات، والإيمان بمقتضى الحديث أن لله حقواً، كما أن له سمعاً ووجهاً وقدماً، كل ذلك على الحقيقة اللائقة بالله عز وجل من غير تحريف ولا تمثيل ولا تكييف ولا تعطيل.
أما تنزيه الله عن الجارحة فكلام مجمل لم يصح نفيه عن الله ولا عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وعليه فلا يجوز نفيه ولا إثباته حتى يُستفصل عن مراد قائله، لأنه يحوي حقاً وباطلاً.
وتكلُّف كونه مجازاً واستعارة مما يفضي إلى التعطيل ونفي الصفات الثابتة لله عز وجل. والواجب إثبات الصفات لله على الوجه اللائق بالله من غير تكييف ولا تمثيل، ومن غير تحريف ولا تعطيل، كما هو قول أهل السنة والجماعة، والله ولي التوفيق.

Rough translation excerpted from the above quote:

"What is obligatory is to believe in that which is indicated in the hadith and to pass it it along as it has come in its literal sense, as is the case for the other texts that pertain to the divine attributes, and to believe in the implication of this hadith, which is that Allah has a waist. . . ."

The author also objects to declaring Allah trancendent above having limbs saying:

"As for declaring Allah transcendent above limbs, such words are ambiguous and there are no sound texts from Allah or His Messenger (salla Allah 'alaihi wa sallam) negating it, so on that basis it is not permissible to negate it or affirm it."


The book that this qoute was taken from, was reviewed, edited and checked by some senior Salafi scholars like Abdul Aziz bin Salih Al-Fawzan and Abdullah Ghunayman.