Objectionable beliefs/statements of Salafi scholars in relation to Allah's attributes

[faqir]

Salafis say al-Istawa' is Julus - Allah is Sitting


Says Pseudo Salafi 'Shaykh' al-Uthaimeen in Majmu Fatawa (vol. 1, no. 57) quoting Ibn al-Qayyim [provided by sh. Abul Hasan]:

وأما تفسيره بالجلوس فقد نقل ابن القيم في الصواعق 4/1303 عن خارجة بن مصعب في قوله تعالى : )الرحمن على العرش استوى((1) قوله: "وهل يكون الاستواء إلا الجلوس". ا.هـ. وقد ورد ذكر الجلوس في حديث أخرجه الإمام أحمد عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما مرفوعاً. والله أعلم

.

source
rough translation:

with respect to the sitting, Ibn al-Qayyim has reported in As-Sawaaiq 1303/4 from Kharijah bin Mus'ab with respect to the saying of Allah the Exalted :The ayah: Ar-Rahmanu Alal Arshi Istawa, "How can the ascension be anything other than sitting?" and the mention of sitting has been reported in the Hadeeth from Imam Ahmad from Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them both, in a Marfu' fashion. And Allah Knows best

And, to quote sh. Abul Hasan:




Ibn al-Qayyim is talking about a non-existent narration in the Musnad of Ahmad [i.e. he has fabricated] through Kharija who is actually matruk in hadith anyway!


Similar statements are found in the book Kitab al-sunna attributed to `Abd Allah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 290) by the pseudo-salafis, but whose stand in relation to the Sunna and anthropomorphism can be judged by the following excerpt:


10 حدثني أحمد بن سعيد أبو جعفر الدارمي قال سمعتُ أبي يقول سمعت خارجة يقول الجهمية كفار بلغوا نساءهم أنهن طوالق وأنهن لا يحللن لازواجهن لا تعودوا مرضاهم ولا تشهدوا جنائزهم ثم تلا : ﴿طه * مَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى * إِلاَّ تَذْكِرَةً لِّمَن يَخْشَى * تَنزِيلاً مِّمَّنْ خَلَقَ الأَرْضَ وَالسَّمَاوَاتِ الْعُلَى * الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى﴾ ، وهل يكون الاستواء الا بجلوس.

"Is istiwa other than by sitting (julus)?"
page 5, Kitab al-sunna (Cairo: al-Matba`a al-Salafiya, 1349/1930).

In the book Qudum Kataib al-Jihad li Ghazwi Ahl al-Zindiqah wa al-Ilhad , the pseudo-salafi 'shaykh' Abdul 'Aziz al-Rajihi says after quoting Kitab al-Sunna:




[rough translation of excerpt from above]

"These words are correct undoubtedly. Yes; is istiwa anything other than sitting? This is one of the meanings of the word istiwa . . . . So the verse, "The All-Merciful rose over the Throne" means ascended and sat; however, it is in a way that befits His majesty. . .

Source (p. 101)



The contemporary salafi preacher Dr. Aidh al-Qarni also describes Allah as 'sitting' on His throne as can be seen in a recording of one of his khutbas. [edit: video now removed]


And finally, in his Tafsir named "an-Nahrul-Madd", the Grammarian Abu Hayyan al-'Andalusi reported about Ibn Taymiyah:

In his handwriting, a book of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah, who was contemporary with us, which he called "Kitab-ul-‘Arsh", I read: Allah sits on al-Kursi and has left a space for the Messenger of Allah to sit with Him....

(see scan)

[faqir]

Salafis Say Allah is Attributed With Boredom

Sh. al-`Uthaymin says:

وهذا الملل الذي يفهم من ظاهر الحديث أن الله يتصف به ، ليس كمللنا نحن ، لأن مللنا نحن ملل تعب وكسل ، وأما ملل الله عز وجل فإنه صفة يختص به جل وعلا ، والله سبحانه وتعالى لا يلحقه تعب ولا يلحقه كسل ، قال تعالى : ( وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) (قّ:38) هذه السماوات العظيمة والأرض وما بينهما خلقها الله تعالى في ستة أيام : الأحد والاثنين والثلاثاء والأربعاء والخميس والجمعة ، قال (وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) يعني ما تعبنا بخلقها في هذه المدة الوجيزة مع عظمها

Source

Rough translation:

"This malal [literally: boredom], which is understood as an attribute of Allah from the literal/apparent meaning of the narration, is not like our boredom, for our boredom constitutes of tiredness and laziness. As for the boredom of Allah, the Powerful and Exalted, then that is a special Attribute of the Most Powerful and High, and Allah (swt) is neither ascribed with tiredness nor laziness....."

[maneatinglizard]

Salafis Say Allah is Attributed With Boredom

Sh. al-`Uthaymin says:

وهذا الملل الذي يفهم من ظاهر الحديث أن الله يتصف به ، ليس كمللنا نحن ، لأن مللنا نحن ملل تعب وكسل ، وأما ملل الله عز وجل فإنه صفة يختص به جل وعلا ، والله سبحانه وتعالى لا يلحقه تعب ولا يلحقه كسل ، قال تعالى : ( وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) (قّ:38) هذه السماوات العظيمة والأرض وما بينهما خلقها الله تعالى في ستة أيام : الأحد والاثنين والثلاثاء والأربعاء والخميس والجمعة ، قال (وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) يعني ما تعبنا بخلقها في هذه المدة الوجيزة مع عظمها

Rough translation:

"This malal [literally: boredom], which is understood as an attribute of Allah from the literal/apparent meaning of the narration, is not like our boredom, for our boredom constitutes of tiredness and laziness. As for the boredom of Allah, the Powerful and Exalted, then that is a special Attribute of the Most Powerful and High, and Allah (swt) is neither ascribed with tiredness nor laziness....."

What's the literal meaning when he has negated it already!?

[suleimanibnsalim]

Isn't that clear tafwid al-ma'na! What's the point in saying 'dhahir'? What's the 'first thing that comes to mind' when hearing boredom?

[aMuslimForLife]

...and a diagram of Um Abdullah also posted on the same forum:

That is amazing. Before they use to hide their anthropomorphism. Now they coming out with clear anthropomorphic teachings. Like that guy hasan30. The older salafis use to hide it. These guys are pure anthropomorphist. Wow. I can't believe it.

[Kashmir_85]

Astagfirullah

[maneatinglizard]

1) Allah SWT could be either inside the world or outside the world ... It is a matter of agreement among main stream Muslims that He is outside the world. Being inside the world means that He SWT mixes with impurities, an aspect of imperfection.

2) The universe is round (sperical).

3) Relative to itself, a sperical shape can only have two directions: a top and a bottom.

4) For a sperical shape, bottom is towards its center, above is away from its center.

5) Allah SWT is certainly away from the center of the world, so He is certainly above it.

I just wanted to point out that this makes no sense at all.

1) The other possibility is that Allah is nothing like the universe, and so He is not comparable to it.

2) Where is the evidence for this claim? Is there a Hadith that mentions this? I ask this because I honestly want to know. If he's referring to what the scientists say, then they are not in agreement with how the universe is shaped.

3) I'm not sure what is trying to be said here, but it doesn't seem to make sense either.

4) Okay

5) The problem is that unless the Earth is proven to be the center of the universe, you still have the problem of having to deal with this model implying that Allah is closer to some parts of the world than others, since the Earth is also spherical.

This model is a terrible thing, but I will use it to show what I mean:



"e" is the earth.

[mcguidj]

I can't believe, even after all these years, neither the sufis or salafis of this world have grown up. Still looking through the internet and finding "evidence" of the other group's departure from "mainstream" Islam. Still trying to get the last word in.

It's quite pathetic that 8 year old Muslim boys are being attacked by helicopter gunships in Afghanistan, and faqir is still trying to slander UmAbdullah (and vise versa).

Do you even know what you're arguing about anymore?

[maneatinglizard]

I can't believe, even after all these years, neither the sufis or salafis of this world have grown up. Still looking through the internet and finding "evidence" of the other group's departure from "mainstream" Islam. Still trying to get the last word in.

It's quite pathetic that 8 year old Muslim boys are being attacked by helicopter gunships in Afghanistan, and faqir is still trying to slander UmAbdullah (and vise versa).

Do you even know what you're arguing about anymore?

While I agree that some people do get into these debates and end up spending far too much time on them, I'd like to know what you're doing that is better?

We can all sit around and complain that brother x or shaikh y is wasting his time in occupation z instead of doing "what's really important" (which can mean many different things), but has the complainer ever actually considered if they were not wasting their time themselves?

Just as an example, what do you want faqir and ummAbdullah to do about the innocents being slaughtered in Afghanistan and elsewhere? What can they do besides make du`a? And, whatever it is that you think they can do, is learning about the Deen and attempting to spread what one believes is the truth going to get in the way of that? If so, why?

In essence, my question is basically as follow: what makes you think these people aren't doing anything for the innocents in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and why do you think that this subject interferes in whatever they could potentially do?

[faqir]

Salafis Say Allah is Attributed with Hesitation: 'A conflict between Two Wills'


Shaikh Abdel Aziz Ar-Rajhi said:

الأسئلة:
س: أحسن الله إليكم هل يوصف الله بالتردد كما في الحديث القدسي (وما ترددت في شيء أنا فاعله ترددي في قبض نفس عبدي المؤمن…) الحديث؟

ج: نعم كما وصفه الرسول -عليه الصلاة والسلام- لكن هذا التردد ليس كتردد المخلوق الذي يدل على الضعف، ولكنه تعارض الإرادتين كما بين في الحديث، فالله تعالى يريد ما يريده عبده المؤمن، والمؤمن يكره الموت، فالله يريد ما يريده عبده المؤمن، ولكن الله قضى وقدر أنه يموت، فهذا تعارض إرادتين إرادة الموت؛ لأن الله قدره، وإرادة ما يريده العبد وهو كراهة الموت ولا ينافي هذا التردد ترجيح إحدى الإرادتين؛ لأن الموت لا بد منه نعم.

Source

"Question: 'Is Allah (swt) attributed with Hesitation (taraddud)......?'

Answer (tr. Um Abdullah / NMS/ Musleemah): Yes, as the Messenger -Alayhi As-Salatu Wa-Salam- described Him, but this taraddud (hesitation) isn't like the hesitation of creation that indicates weakness, but it is a conflict between two wills as the hadith explains. Allah Ta'ala wants what the believing slave wants, and the believer does not like death, so Allah wants what His believing slave wants, but Allah Has decreed that He die, so this is a conflict between two wills, the will for him to die, because Allah decreed it, and the will of what the slave wants, which is hating death, and this hesitation does not go against the outweighting of one will over the other, because death is a must.