How to refute this salafi argument?

[Cloud_Strife]

Assalamu alaykum.

A lot of salafis will say regarding good bidah, why would you do it if Islam is perfect and has no shortcomings? They are basically trying to imply we believe the religion is incomplete or has shortcomings.

How do we address these kinds of arguments? Islam is complete, has been completed already in Prophet SAW lifetime. It is perfect; it has no flaws.
So they ask if it has no flaws why add things to it?

Can anyone offer some good reasons for this?

One thing I tell them that yes Islaam is perfect, but it's a religion. It cannot protect itself so things were added to it after Prophet SAW died to help protect it.

Any other arguments? Jazak Allah khair!

[Hafiz Gee]

Salam

i know one scholar who classified bidah as those for the sake of islam and those introduced as a part of islam.

for example the womens section in masjids or lines (for saffs) are things which are not understood to be a part of islam only things done for the sake of islam, that is things which make practicing the din easier.

this video may also shed some light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoEhaGHn7Vs

[Cloud_Strife]

Jazak Allah khair.

I have a real slow internet connection so I was thinking if someone could write out some things. I will try to see this vid when I can.

[Cloud_Strife]

If someone is insisting the world is flat because he sees to be flat and the other is saying no, do you think the former will change his mind because he/she purely relies on one faculty.
Even after proving the necessity of schools of Jurisprudance, they will resort to qualify or every single person in the same calibre as that of a capeble scholar.
Anyway go through the link below and take it from there.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...d-amp-Ijtihaad

Anything specific there I should look at to address the argument they make that if Islam is perfect why add so and so to it?
Jazak Allah khair

[maneatinglizard]

If Islam was perfected in the sense that they understand it, then the Hadith sciences are a bid`a and should be abandoned, the university system is a bid`a and so Madinah University should be abandoned, reading the books of Shaikh Ibn Taymiyyah is a bid`a and should be abandoned, etc.

Clearly, there is a defect in their understanding of the meaning of bid`a.

[Sulaiman84]

Whoever innovates something reprehensible in this matter of ours that does not belong to it is rejected.

(Bukhari, Muslim)


"In this matter" i.e. religion - Islam. Defining "innovation," Qadi Iyad writes, "Whoever innovates an opinion in Islam that does not have any manifest (zahir) or obscure (khafi) or clear derived substantiation from the Qur'an and Sunna, then it is rejected."

Islam was preferred as a religion, and anyone who attempts to bring into it an unsubstantiated idea has undertaken a disliked practice - disliked because of the implication that Islam is incomplete or defective, and hence has need for some innovation. As for the words "that does not belong to it," they indicate that innovating something that is in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunna (i.e. "which belongs to it") cannot be considered reprehensible. Imam Shafi'i said, "Any innovation that violates the Qur'an or Sunna or a statement [of the Companion - athar] or the consensus (ijma') [of Muslim scholars] is a deviance. And whatever good that has been innovated and does not contravene any of the above is not reprehensible" (Mirqat al-mafatih 1:366, 368).

Thus, according to Islamic law, bid'a is any new way in worship that is done with the intention of attaining more reward, but not proven from the words or the actions - explicit or tacit -of the Messenger or the four caliphs, Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman, and 'Ali , in spite of them having had the ability to do so (Shatibi, Al-I'tisam).

The Messenger of Allah strongly warned his Umma against innovating something into Islam saying, "When a people innovate something new into their religion, a sunna to that amount is lifted from them. Hence, holding fast to a sunna is superior to introducing a new innovation (Ahmad).

This is why extreme caution is required in the issue of bid'a. When there is doubt about whether or not something is a reprehensible innovation, it is superior to leave the action. Ibn 'Abidin, the great Syrian jurist, writes, "When there is confusion between the ruling of something being a sunna or bid'a, it is preferable that one abandon the [possible] sunna than enact the [possible] innovation" (Radd al-muthar 1:431)

New methods invented to fulfill human needs have nothing to do with bid'a, because they are not introduced as an act of worship or with the intention of earning reward. Hence, they are permissible as long as they do not violate any command of the Shari'a.

It also can be understood from the above explanation of bid'a that many things were not needed in the time of Allah's Messenger , but were established later to achieve a religious objective, cannot be included in the realm of bid'a (in the legal sense) either, [even though they may be considered bid'a in the literal sense, i.e., "an innovation" or "something new." Many times the later is intended when referencing a certain matter to be a good or bad bid'a, since every action legally considered a bid'a can only be reprehensible].

Some innovations that do not violate the Qur'an or the Sunna include the establishment of of madrasas with their organized curricula and classrooms and centers and institutions for spreading Islam (da'wa). Also included among these commendable innovations is the codification of sciences like Arabic grammar, syntax, etymology, rhetoric, and literature to better understand and interpret the Qur'an and hadith; the study of philosophy [or other relevant subjects] to repudiate heretical groups; and the use of certain modern weapons for the defense of Muslims.

Examples of [legally] reprehensible innovation include [unnecessary] decoration of masjids or the custom of shaking hands after the prayers. Mulla 'Ali al-Qari writes, "Some of our scholars [i.e. the Hanafi scholars] have explicitly mentioned that it [shaking hands after prayer] is disliked, and for this reason it is from among the reprehensible innovations (Mirqat al-mafatih 1:368, see also Radd al-muthar 5:244). [A] Conversely, one must also be cautious of ignorantly labeling something, which may be recommended or permissible, as a bid'a, since that is also detrimental to the faith.



Excerpt from, Provisions for the Seekers with commentary by Mufti Abdur-Rahman Ibn Yusuf


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...light=bid%27ah

[Taliban1]

Why do you even want to refute the salafi? Is it because it feels good? Or is it because you want to sound good?

What's the reason man? Just let them do what they are doing.. and you do what you are required to do.... Leave them alone and concentrate on yourself. There are many better things to do then refute them. Call people who don't even know kalimah towards deen... its better than refuting salafis.

[aMuslimForLife]

Assalamu alaykum.

A lot of salafis will say regarding good bidah, why would you do it if Islam is perfect and has no shortcomings? They are basically trying to imply we believe the religion is incomplete or has shortcomings.

How do we address these kinds of arguments? Islam is complete, has been completed already in Prophet SAW lifetime. It is perfect; it has no flaws.
So they ask if it has no flaws why add things to it?

Can anyone offer some good reasons for this?

One thing I tell them that yes Islaam is perfect, but it's a religion. It cannot protect itself so things were added to it after Prophet SAW died to help protect it.

Any other arguments? Jazak Allah khair!

My reply to Salafis, is part of the religion being perfect is that ijithad (making new rulings) is permissible.

With regards to the hadith, Every innovation is a deviation.

There is a consensus among the scholars, that this does not refer to "all" new things, eventhough the word "every" is used in the hadith.

How Salafis understand the statement of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa salam) Every innovation is a deviation is (if their scholars disagrees with that new thing, or their new ruling), it is deviation.

But the reality of the matter is, I don't have to follow their scholars.

SO they are a little bias in their approach, It is a mere tactic they use to guide the uneducated to their way of thinking. They are not honest, nor are they scholarly.

That is my reply to them.

And Allah knows best.

[حسان 30]

My reply to Salafis, is part of the religion being perfect is that ijithad (making new rulings) is permissible.

With regards to the hadith, Every innovation is a deviation.

There is a consensus among the scholars, that this does not refer to "all" new things, eventhough the word "every" is used in the hadith.

So now show us the consensus and show us how the innovation in 'aqeedah, manhaj, 'ibada was not meant by "Every" According to consensus.....


So with that being said I would gander to say that there is no such consensus on 'aqeedah, manhaj, 'ibada NOT being part of that word every.... Because if anything the SALAF were the strictest against Innovation in 'Aqeedah,Manhaj, and 'Ibada and thus that was part of the word every...


So pretty please show us this consensus.

And explain to us the meaning of every according to you...

[Nomadic]

Consensus. I thought all this is biddah according to SS lot.