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Thread: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

  1. #61
    Senior Member Julaybib's Avatar
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaam.

    Well specific accusations you have an entire website with thousands of pages of evidence you call for specific proofs.

    Brother Slave Of Allahs, statements can be verified hy simply visiting that site,
    words labels like Deo'bander, Deo'gandi, Deo Shaytaan, Deo kafir, are used routinely.

    His Mureeds make Takfir, so naturally it does not take rocket science to know who
    is teaching them the Takfir attitude. So your attempts at playing the moral Highground will be futile. Most people on this site have been to ya-nabi and have seem the behavior themselves including many who are neither deobandi nor brelvi and follow the ulemah of Shaam, and Yemen, Jordan etc.

    It is also quite clear you did not come here to discuss ethos.
    Silence Is Golden....!


  2. #62
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaams brother Julaybib


    As this seems to be causing so much difficulty, then as I have suggested the easiest thing is to bring this in the open.

    Please nominate your scholars or agieved parties.

    Please nominate the place.

    Please nominate the time of your choosing.

    I will take this request back to syed saib and his mureeds. I am sure they will be more than willing to oblige and attend a gathering to satisfy your questions and issues?

    This is no attempt to have the moral high ground - as i have already declared I am not a mureed of syed saib and therefore do not have a "vested" interest other than seeing the truth in the open.

    Brother - is there anything in my post which is counter to to the rules of this site, or the ethos you outlined earlier? why then the hatred for my post? I am merely asking questions!


    Wasalaam


  3. #63
    Senior Member Julaybib's Avatar
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaam.

    What is exactly is Difficult, fact is your friend Suhaib came and dug up this, thread from the year 2005 from the archives, then you come here a few week laters and dig up the thread, again on the pretext of examining ethos.

    It is quite clear you are the one having some difficulties.

    Well personally i do not follow in particular scholars nor have any close contact with any, half My family follows Pir Nasiruddin Nasir, the descendant of Pir Mehr Ali Shah. The other half of my family Peer Sadiq of Kotli Azad Kashmir.

    So as for your peer sahib he is irrelevant as far as I am concerned, we have other peers in my homecity like Peer Munawar, Peer Sufi Abdullah, Peer Siddiqui, and who are people of greater recocgnition and standing.
    Silence Is Golden....!


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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salam, another thing, what does the HADITH PAAK say, OUR BELOVED PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY) said HAZRAT ALI ALAIHISSALAAM is the door of EMAAN, in order to come in to Islam one HAS to pass this door.....another HADITH PAAK says, OUR BELOVED PROPHET PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY said I am from Ali and Ali is from ME, SUBHANALLAH.......another HADITH PAAK says, during war SAHABI-E-RASOOL SALLALLAHU-ALAIHE-WA-AALIHEWASALLAM in order to find out if the person was Momin or not, they use to take the name of HAZRAT ALI ALAIHISSALAAM, if the person had a smile on His face, He was known to be Momin and if a person was unhappy, he was known to be Munafik! so why shouldn't I and my Pir SHAH SAAB love HAZRAT ALI ALAIHISSALAM! so it is part of EMAAN brother so love OUR HAZRAT ALI ALAIHISSALAM jus to enter the door of Islam.......so it doesn't make anyone Shia or Sunni, please seek knowledge about the basic things and then debate because sometimes we don't realise what we say and just by coming into anger we say alot of bad things......may ALLAH SUBHANUWATALA because of HIS AND OUR BELOVED PROPHET PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY grant us knowledge and better understand deen, Ameen!

    JAZAKALLAH


  5. #65
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Quote Originally Posted by Julaybib View Post
    Salaam.

    What is exactly is Difficult, fact is your friend Suhaib came and dug up this, thread from the year 2005 from the archives, then you come here a few week laters and dig up the thread, again on the pretext of examining ethos.

    It is quite clear you are the one having some difficulties.

    Well personally i do not follow in particular scholars nor have any close contact with any, half My family follows Pir Nasiruddin Nasir, the descendant of Pir Mehr Ali Shah. The other half of my family Peer Sadiq of Kotli Azad Kashmir.

    So as for your peer sahib he is irrelevant as far as I am concerned, we have other peers in my homecity like Peer Munawar, Peer Sufi Abdullah, Peer Siddiqui, and who are people of greater recocgnition and standing.
    firstly brother, I dont know brother suhaib.
    I was simply browsing and came across this.
    All the scholars you mention are great and I listen to their lectures as well - as I have said on a number of occasions now, I am not a mureed of syed saib. I was simply making the point that rather than call people satanic, etc etc, it is a simple matter to arange an open debate between these aggreived parties such that any issues can be easily resolved rather that cause the ummah difficulties. Why did this anger you?

    My apologies if I have disturbed an old thread and brought it to life again!
    My intention is not to cause anger for anyone.

    If this is not really a current issue, please simply lock this thread?


    Was-salaam


  6. #66
    Senior Member Julaybib's Avatar
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaam.

    Well Bro; Suhaib,Perhaps You can give a refrence to those Hadith.In particular the one you mentioned about to recogine the face of Munafik in the Battlefield.

    All I know is People who are Brelvi do not recognise your Peer sahib, and most of the followers of Peer Sufi Abdullah, do not recognise your peer sahib.And frankly your Peer sahib, is nowhere near the status of Peer Sufi abdullah, who has served the Deen for decades.

    Well first of All I am not a moderator so I have no power to close the thread. I do not see how supporters to particular factions coming together to hurl insults will is going to create unity.

    Besides thats what forums are for, places where people can exchange views and debate.
    Last edited by Julaybib; 22-03-2008 at 02:58 AM.
    Silence Is Golden....!


  7. #67
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani



    You don't need a venue or conference hall to state the fact that Deobandis are not kafir.

    So please bring some kind of evidence in the form of a talk by Shah Sahib, or an article, statement etc. which confirms that Deobandis are not kafir, neither are the great mashaykh of Deoband, and that this view is unacceptable for any Muslim to hold.

    If you can do that, then we can consider major part of the case to be closed and all the paths of unity to be open. Otherwise, your call to unity is hollow.

    Furthermore, I would like clarification from them that the greatest of all people after the Prophets is Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddique and that Sayyiduna Ali , (the Lion of Allah(swt) that he is) is not greater in status than the shaykhayn. (a popular misconception amongst Shah Sahib's followers)

    If you can do these 2 simple tasks then case closed. If you don't agree then please state so but it doesn't take a conference to clarify your stance on these 2 issues. I'm not asking for a debate just for a clarification of their position.

    Last edited by TDR; 22-03-2008 at 03:15 AM.


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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaam, brother Julaybib, MASHALLAH it is good to hear that your family is following PIR NASIRUDEEN SHAH SAAB who I personally respect alot ALHAMDULILLAH and PIR MUNAWAR SHAH SAAB and others too that i am not aware off........also, i hope that you know that PIR MUNAWAR SHAH SAAB is a close friend of SHAH SAAB and sports Him with His beliefs......

    Brother the thing is that i saw this thread few months ago and i thought to myself that who are you and others talking about? I am not just justifying my PIR SHAH SAAB but the word SYED!!! Brother, let me ask you something....I don't know what cast your from, not only in Pakistan but several other countries people respect different cast...but which cast Islamically is the best.......lets ask HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM.....in HADITH PAAK it came that one day in childhood HAZRAT IMAM HUSSAIN ALAHISSALAM was playing with HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM's son and they both had an argument and so HAZRAT IMAM HUSSAIN ALAIHISSALAM said to Him that you are my slave...so HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM's son went running to Him and said this....HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM said ok if this is the case then we must give them a visit....when they got there and knocked on the door, HAZRAT IMAM HUSSAIN ALAIHISSALAM came out and was shy because THEY thought that HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM would complaint against THEM but instead HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM asked YA-HUSSAIN ALAIHISSALATOWASSALAM did YOU say this to MY son.......THEY replied yes, I did......HAZRAT UMAR ALAIHISSALAM requested....ok then please write this on a piece of paper so that on the day of Judgement I can show it to OUR BELOVED PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY) so that I can get inter-session! SUBHANALLAH!!!! this is the status of their GHARANA PAAK(FAMILY), that a person like HAZRAT IMAM UMAR ALAIHISSALATOWASSALAM whose status was that OUR BELOVED PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY) said if anyone was a PROPHET after ME, it would be UMAR (ALAIHISSALAM).....

    the point of me saying all this is to tell you that i couldn't resist the fact that you and others were talking bad about a SYED PIR, He is not just any person, firstly HE is SYED and PIR too........also, another HADITH PAAK says OUR BELOVED PROPHET PEACE BE UPON HIM AND HIS FAMILY said "IF SOMEONE FROM MY FAMILY IS PIOUS, LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE IS CLOSE TO ALLAH SUBHANUWATALA AND IF HE IS NOT PRACTISING THEN LOVE HIM BECAUSE OF ME".........i say no more, rest is upto you brother.......and lastly, yes i agree with brother IBN_HUSSAIN about scholars meeting up INSHALLAH to get doubts away......if not then like Brother IBN_HUSSAIN said just lock this thread as this conversation is not getting anywhere....JAZAKALLAH......


  9. #69
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR View Post


    You don't need a venue or conference hall to state the fact that Deobandis are not kafir.

    So please bring some kind of evidence in the form of a talk by Shah Sahib, or an article, statement etc. which confirms that Deobandis are not kafir, neither are the great mashaykh of Deoband, and that this view is unacceptable for any Muslim to hold.

    If you can do that, then we can consider major part of the case to be closed and all the paths of unity to be open. Otherwise, your call to unity is hollow.

    Furthermore, I would like clarification from them that the greatest of all people after the Prophets is Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddique and that Sayyiduna Ali , (the Lion of Allah(swt) that he is) is not greater in status than the shaykhayn. (a popular misconception amongst Shah Sahib's followers)

    If you can do these 2 simple tasks then case closed. If you don't agree then please state so but it doesn't take a conference to clarify your stance on these 2 issues. I'm not asking for a debate just for a clarification of their position.

    Salaam, Brothers about the first one, i have heard SHAH SAAB himself say that HAZRAT ABU-BAKAR SADDEEQ ALAIHISSALATOWASSALAAM has a greater status than HAZRAT ALI ALAIHISSALATOWASSALAAM, not sure about the second one....but i would like to ask you and other brothers too that when SAHABIYE RASOOL SALLALLAHU-ALAIHIWA-AALIHIWA-SALLAM never argued the fact who is higher and lower than who are we to argue........so just rest all this here INSHALLAH.......and about holding a conference, well these kind of debates can not be done with out face-to-face contact.......think about it yourself, doesn't make any sense......and these are proper professional Scholars we are talking about, this debate won't be like me or you debating that will finish in 5mins, it takes hours....don't know if you have been to one.......JAZAKALLAH


  10. #70
    Senior Member Julaybib's Avatar
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    Default Re: pir shah syed abdul qadir jilani

    Salaam.

    Well first of all, This thread is from 2005, and I was not even a member back then. so my comments where posted after you revived the thread.

    Secondly if you look at the first nine posts which are from 2005, you will see that non of the comments where overly critical.

    The critical came after you revived the thread, as for debates well this a forum you can have all the debates you want. On each Forum be it Deobandi, Brelvi, Salaafi,
    Ahle Hadith. People are going to have a natural affinity to their own view point. Secondly the Ya Nabi site is a bad advert. And rightly or wrongly people judge a peer sahib, by the behavior of his Mureeds. So in religious situations like you your self rightly pointed out, many people claim to follow a Peer, and they think that merely Bayaah is sufficient. They instead of gaining any blessing from their Bayaah, end up, besmirching the name of their Peer by their behaviour.

    As for the rest personally I think the relevant issues are to do with the problems facing many of our youth crime drugs etc. And we have an entire generation who are in danger of losing their Islamic identity completely. This where our focus should be, not in engaging in sectarian debates and disputes that have not been resolved in decades.

    I do not follow peer Munawar although many of relatives pray at his mosque.
    As for Peer Sufi Abdullah, he has been putting a greater emphasis in desiminating religious knowledge to the youth in recent years. And at the Ghamkol sharif masjid we have Shaykh Amjid, a young Alim who delivers lectures in English and is very popular. He also teaches at the Sultan Bahu trust.

    Yes I too have great resopect for Hazrat Pir Nasirruddin Nasir Shah sahib, and a Deep love for Hazrat Peer Mahr Ali Shah (RA).

    The issue of loving someone because they are Syed, sure we must love the Ahle Bayt, and on the flipside we have many Shia Ayatullahs who are Syed and I certainly would not respect them purely on thge basis of being Shia.

    The ulemah I look upto those who are either active in doing dawah to the youth, or those who speakout pro-actively against the Oppression of Muslims around the world.

    I do not take to thoseno matter which group they belong to, who seemingly put their main focus, on sectarian issues.We have more pressing concerns especially as Muslims living in the west,

    and these are just my ignorant views.

    Futhermore I agree with Brother TDR you do not need a conference to debate an issue either Peer sahib regardss Deobandis as Kafirs or he does not it is a simple yes or no issue, he does not need to engage in a lengthy debate, before he can answer that question..And we all know that peer sahib makes Takfir of Deobandis, and that is a well known fact.

    So how can you expect unity.
    Last edited by Julaybib; 22-03-2008 at 03:52 AM.
    Silence Is Golden....!


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