ANSWERED: Daylami Hadith

[Karim_sunni]

•'Three things are counted inadequacies in a man. Firstly, meeting someone he would like to get to know, and taking leave of him before learning his name and his family. Secondly, rebuffing the generosity that another shows to him. And thirdly, going to his wife and having intercourse with her before talking to her and gaining her intimacy, satisfying his need from her before she has satisfied her need from him." (Daylami)


•"Not one of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you." "And what is that messenger?" they asked, and he replied: "Kisses and words." (Daylami)

Does anyone now the status (are they authentic or hasan) of these hadith, they would perfectly suit my article to defend women in islam.

I see they also quote these hadith at sunnipath

http://sunnipath.com/Resources/Quest...A00000608.aspx

so i quess they are trustworthy

[Husain]

Sorry for the belated reply, but better late than never.
Both these ahadith are completely unreliable and have been classified as munkar by the top muhaditheen.

Both appear in the ihya of Imam Ghazali, which is where sunnipath and others quote them from.
Regarding the first first, Ibn Abi Hatim Razi, the great Muhaddith, quotes his father, Abu Hatim Razi- an even greater muhaddith- as saying that this hadith is munkar. (Ilalul hadith Vol.2 Pg.308)

As for the second, Hafiz Iraqi in his takhreej of the Ihya, classifies it as munkar.

And Allah Ta'ala knows best

[Karim_sunni]

shokran

but:

Munkar - denounced: is a hadith which is reported by a weak narrator, and whose narration goes against another authentic hadith.

But i cant imagine this hadith contradicts another hadith, is it correct to say 'that only the narrator is weak' ??

[Husain]

The definition you quoted is an over-simplified one, usually only taught to beginners.

Munkar has many different uses depending on the person using it, the hadith for which it is used, the book in which it is used in etc.

Here they are used to refer to a hadith which is extremly weak or fabricated because of severe weakness being found in its narrators.

The first hadith for example contains a narrator regarding whom it has been mentioned that quoting from him is not permissible!!!

For a more detailed discussion on the uses of munkar and how it is uses for a fabricated narration, see the foreward of al-Masnu' fi ma'rifati al-hadith al-mudhu' pg.20 by shaikh abdul fattah abu ghuddah

[Mansy]

Assalmualikum, Yes i confirm Sufi Saheb that the second Hadith has been classified as munkar by Imam Iraqi. And the term munkar has many connotations, however, this does not mean that foreplaying with ones wife is haram, the point is that you just cant prove it from this Hadith of Daylami.

Imam Suyuti has dedicated nine monographs to this subject.

Just one more thing, the book al-masnu.... to be precise is written by Mulla Ali Qari and is edited by Sheikh Abu Ghudda.

Take care everyone
wassalam