Barren Women

[تفويض]

"Abu Dawood (2050) narrated that Ma’qil ibn Yazaar (may Allah be pleased with him) said: A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I have found a woman who is from a good family and is beautiful, but she does not bear children; should I marry her?” He told him not to. Then he came to him a second time and said something similar and he told him not to marry her. Then he came to him a third time and said something similar and he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Marry the one who is loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers.”

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1784.

Is it the case that we should therefore only consider fertile women? With Barren women given less preference? Maybe as a second wife? I dont like asking one question after another as I just have, it sounds a little arrogant so please don't read it that way (without tone of voice text can be read in many ways and I dont want to sound rude, hence I felt the need to say this).

Would the same ruling be given therefore to an infertile man? Or maybe more harsh since a woman can only have one man, therefore to marry an infertile man means no children from that marriage. The only option then would be for an infertile man to marry a barren women which would be very rare?

[تفويض]

Also im 25% asleep as I type this, I'm off to pray Fajr inshallah and then i will be calling it a night, so I wont reply for quite a few hours should any posts come till then.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Is it the case that we should therefore only consider fertile women? With Barren women given less preference? Maybe as a second wife? I dont like asking one question after another as I just have, it sounds a little arrogant so please don't read it that way (without tone of voice text can be read in many ways and I dont want to sound rude, hence I felt the need to say this).

Would the same ruling be given therefore to an infertile man? Or maybe more harsh since a woman can only have one man, therefore to marry an infertile man means no children from that marriage. The only option then would be for an infertile man to marry a barren women which would be very rare?

Question sent to a Scholar and will post as soon as a response is available.

[mukhtar]

Question sent to a Scholar and will post as soon as a response is available.

For the Maliki madhab:

For the man, being infertile (or not desiring women) takes the hukm of Nikah from mustahab to jaiz only. It is a requirement that he informs the woman of that fact before marrying/engaging.

To answer your question, again according to the Maliki madhab, there is no karaaha/hurma for such a man to be married; meaning the ruling is not "harsh".

As for the woman, it is mustahab to marry a virgin and/or fertile woman, and makruh to marry a woman who already has children from another man. It is makrooh because of the fact that the thought that another man has had relations with her, may decrease the husband's desire for her, and thus lead to reducing the chances of having children. However, the karaaha is small, meaning that there may be other mustahab reasons that overcome this karaaha, like her being pious and needing financial support.

One may consult the commentaries of Abu Dawud to see what is said about the hadeeth.


Mukhtar

[تفويض]

@Colonel: Thank you, I look forward to the answer

@Mukhtar: Thank you brother for your response, a couple of questions.

For the man, being infertile (or not desiring women) takes the hukm of Nikah from mustahab to jaiz only. It is a requirement that he informs the woman of that fact before marrying/engaging.

To answer your question, again according to the Maliki madhab, there is no karaaha/hurma for such a man to be married; meaning the ruling is not "harsh".

I asked about the man because when asked about the infertile woman the Prophet (SAW) said not to marry, hence I wondered if this was the same, but it seems not as you said it becomes jaiz for the man to marry. Is there a reason for this difference? Also what exactly does karaaha/hurma mean? I am thinking karaha yakrahu meaning disliked?

As for the woman, it is mustahab to marry a virgin and/or fertile woman, and makruh to marry a woman who already has children from another man. It is makrooh because of the fact that the thought that another man has had relations with her, may decrease the husband's desire for her, and thus lead to reducing the chances of having children. However, the karaaha is small, meaning that there may be other mustahab reasons that overcome this karaaha, like her being pious and needing financial support.

I was unaware it was makrooh since all bar one of the Prophets (SAW) wives were previously married. But as you said this dislike can be overcome by other factors. What is the stance on the infertile woman
however? If its better not to get married to her how come its not the same for the infertile man as I would expect it to be harsher for the infertile man as opposed to jaaiz?

And thank you both for you replies, I was beginning to think I would have no takers for this thread! Jazaakumallah!

[mukhtar]

@Mukhtar: Thank you brother for your response, a couple of questions.

I asked about the man because when asked about the infertile woman the Prophet (SAW) said not to marry, hence I wondered if this was the same, but it seems not as you said it becomes jaiz for the man to marry. Is there a reason for this difference? Also what exactly does karaaha/hurma mean? I am thinking karaha yakrahu meaning disliked?

Karaaha means "dislikedness". Hurma means something being haram "prohibited".
Makruh means that one gets rewarded for leaving the act, and does not get punished for doing it.

Normally, it would be mustahab (praiseworthy) for a man to marry, if he desires women and is fertile.
If he is infertile, it becomes merely jaiz (permissible). Something jaiz does not carry the reward of the mustahab; and there is no sin in leaving it either.

I was unaware it was makrooh since all bar one of the Prophets (SAW) wives were previously married. But as you said this dislike can be overcome by other factors. What is the stance on the infertile woman
however? If its better not to get married to her how come its not the same for the infertile man as I would expect it to be harsher for the infertile man as opposed to jaaiz?

I gave that example, because the reason it was said that it's makrooh is because it is feared that one would not get inclined to her and would therefore reduce the chances of getting offspring. That is why I quoted that example.

Now, as far as the infertile man having an "easier" ruling, per se, I do not know, let's wait to see what Colonel gets from the scholar he has questioned.

If I may ask, why would you expect it to be harsher for the man? Genuine question...I'm just thinking about your question and nothing comes to mind....

Remember that the condition is that it is wajib for the man to inform the woman of his infertility...if he is aware of it....so I guess that puts them at par with eachother since she can refuse his proposal.

The commentary of the hadeeth above does mention that the companion RA was aware of her infertility through either knowing of her previous marriages that yielded no children, or by knowing that she was passed the age of conception.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Is it the case that we should therefore only consider fertile women? With Barren women given less preference? Maybe as a second wife? I dont like asking one question after another as I just have, it sounds a little arrogant so please don't read it that way (without tone of voice text can be read in many ways and I dont want to sound rude, hence I felt the need to say this).

Would the same ruling be given therefore to an infertile man? Or maybe more harsh since a woman can only have one man, therefore to marry an infertile man means no children from that marriage. The only option then would be for an infertile man to marry a barren women which would be very rare?

Firstly, it should be known that these laws are not for compulsion. If a person marries a barren woman-although detestable-he will not be sinning in the least.

Coming to your queries:

1) Yes, we should prefer fertile women.

2) Yes, fertile women will be given more preference.

3) There is no problem in taking her as a second wife.

4) Yes, a woman should give preference to a man from whom she can get children. If a man is impotent or infertile, the woman can apply for faskh and come out of the marriage. Of course, the scholars will first

فيكون المراد بالولود من هي كثيرة الولادة بالتجربة أو بالمظنة وأما من جربت فظهرت عقيما وكذا الايسة فالخبران متفقان على مرجوحيتهما (فتح الباري - ابن حجر (9/ 123)

4219 (دعوا الحسناء العاقر) التي لا تلد (وتزوجوا السوداء الولود فإني أكاثر بكم الأمم يوم القيامة) أي أفاخرهم وأغالبهم بكثرتكم وإنافتكم عليهم فأغلبهم والأمر للندب لا للوجوب (فيض القدير (3/ 708)

9775 - (لا تزوجن) بحذف إحدى التاءين للتخفيف (عجوزا) انقطع نسلها (ولا عاقرا) لا تحمل وإن كانت شابة بل أو بكرا ويعرف بأقاربها (فإني مكاثر بكم الأمم) أي مغالب الأمم السابقة في الكثرة (يوم القيامة) فتزوج غير الولود مكروه تنزيها (فيض القدير (6/ 515)

And Allāh Ta’ālā knows best.

Wassalam

(Mufti) Ismail Moosa (HA)

[تفويض]

@Brother Mukhtar: I assumed it would be more harsh as for an infertile man there is no hope at all in having a children, and a woman can't have a second husband (at the same time),
unlike a man who may marry a fertile woman as well as a barren woman at the same time.

@Brother Colonel: Thank you very much for your quote from the scholar. Both you and Brother Mukhtar's answers have been very beneficial. Jazaakumallah