Want some answers please..Shi'ite Polemics

[trustE]

Salam

I am new and curious about islam and islamic sects and would like to have some aswers so I can move forward inshallah and learn more...

Ok, first off I would like to ask what "sunnislam" means really?
Why would you choose "sunniislam" as opposed to other schools of thought if someone could explain?

Is salafi/wahabism also included as sunni?

Lastly, why is there differences in shiaislam and sunniislam as to which "people" ones holds more near at heart after the Prophet(saw)(ie. sahabas vs progeny)??


I would be most grateful for help in this,
Fi aman Allah

[bihari]

1-Sunni islam-
Sunni is a abriged version of actual word ahlesunnah wal jama'at - meaning on the path followed by sahbah raziallah ajmain and other salaf

Shia and sunni ?

It was a political difference aggrevated into a religious difference- shia'ism now being deviated so much in thier beliefs that they are no more considerd muslims by many..

Just to give you some hint--

Shia's abuse holy sahbah raziallah , and attribute special powers to thier imams ( a belief in contradiction with khatm e nabuwat ) whereas Ahle sunnah give equal love to all sahbah which include ahlebait --

This was the shortest answer i could have given - as i am short of time- hope some knowldgeable will continue from here

wasalam

[Shaykhs-Pir Sahib]

Ok, first off I would like to ask what "sunnislam" means really?
Why would you choose "sunniislam" as opposed to other schools of thought if someone could explain?

Is salafi/wahabism also included as sunni?

as salamu alaykum

please read the following articles:

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ahlsunna.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/mhfatwa.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ikhtilaf.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ashari.htm

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=2252&CATE=24

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=3330&CATE=120

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=1685&CATE=91

that should get you started insha'Allah!!

[Muawiyah]

Rasoolallah (Sallallahu `alyhi wa Sallam) said: "Indeed the Children of Israil split up into seventy-one sects and my Ummah will split up into seventy-three, all of them are in the Fire except one." It was said: What is the one? He said: "ma ana alyhi wa ashabi" (That which I and my Companions are upon.) - Jami' at-Tirmidhee (no. 2792)

Ahl us Sunnah wal Jam'ah are the saved sect who stick to the way of the Messenger Sallallahu `alyhi wa Sallam and his companions. This was the way followed by the progeny of the Prophet Sallallahu `alyhi wa Sallam and Shi'ites (partisans) of `Ali (Radhi Allahu `anhu). Thus Ibn Abbas Radhi Allahu `anhu who was at the same time a companion of the Messenger Sallallahu `alyhi wa Sallam, a member of the family of the Messenger and a partisan (shi'ite) of `Ali Radhi Allahu `anhu, said in commentry on the ayah 106 of Surah Aal Imran: {"On a day whereon faces become whitened and faces become blackened. Then as for those whose faces shall have become blackened: disbelieved ye after your profession of belief! taste the torment for that ye have been disbelieving."} that the people whose faces will be brightened on the day of Judgement will be the Ahl us Sunnah and those whose faces will be darkened will be the Ahl ul Bida'h (Tafseer Ibn Katheer and others.)

وقوله تعالى: {يوم تبيض وجوه وتسود وجوه} يعني يوم القيامة حين تبيض وجوه أهل السنة
والجماعة، وتسوّد وجوه أهل البدعة والفرقة، قاله ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما.
تفسير ابن کثير آل عمران ١٠٦

As for the twelver shi'ites of today, we do not accept their claim that they are the partisans of `Ali Radhi Allahu `anhu and the family of the Messenger Sallallahu `alyhi wa Sallam, because their creed is contradicted by what has authentically reached us from `Ali Radhi Allahu `anhu and the family of the Messenger. Similarly their claim to be on the madhhab of the Prophet's family in matters of jurisprudence does not bear up to scrutiny because firstly the scholars among the Prophet's family had many differing opinions on matters of jurisprudence, so the "Madhhab of the Ahl ul Bayt" does not exist in the first place!. Secondly most of the narrations the twelver attribute to some of the Ahl ul Bayt are all narrated through known liars and corrupt individuals whose words are inadmissible in the Deen, this is a fact that has been mentioned in shi'ite books as well, shi'ite books are full of quotes from the Prophet's progeny cursing the narrators of Shism and declaring them to be liars!

The "Salafis" of today are people who claim to be on the Madhhab of the Salaf (the three pious early generations of Muslims), but just like the claim of the Shi'ites, that they are on the Madhhab of the Ahl ul Bayt, the Salafi's claim does not bear up to scrutiny either. Because firstly the Salaf had differing opinions in matters of jurisprudence and secondly the Salafi's understanding of the words of the Salaf differs from that of the hundreds of generations of Muslims scholars who lived between the time of the Salafis and the time of the Salaf i.e the very people through whom these words of the Salaf have reached the Salafis.

[Gajji]

Sorry if this sounds offensive, but is trustE a non-muslim? In which case, the replies so far are a bit confusing as they contain a lot of jargon that many non-muslims wouldn't understand (and some muslims too!).

[Simon Iskander]

maybe I can help to shed some light on this issue. I became Muslim just over 2 years ago and have already been through the experience of different groups (most notably the Salafis / Wahhabis and Twelver Shi'a). I managed to find Sunni Islam in the end.

My reason for choosing Sunni Islam... I feel that none of the other sects can rival Sunni Islam, as it has the most authentic and rigourous scholarship.

In Sunni Islam, we can ascertain the authenticity of Sacred Knowledge that comes to us via two key concepts.

These concepts are 'chain of transmission' (isnad in Arabic) and 'authorisation' (ijaza in Arabic).

If a scholar is part of an isnad (chain of transmission), that means he is part of a chain of teachers and students which traces its origin back to the Companions (may God be well pleased with them) of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace), and hence ultimately to the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) himself.

If a scholar has an ijaza (authorisation) in a particular Islamic science, this means that his teacher is satisfied by his student's ability to teach and that he may transmit knowledge from hiim in that particular Islamic science.

So, in this sense, the ijazas (authorisations) form the links that bind an isnad (chain) together.

So the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) authorised the Companions (may God be well pleased with them) to teach religious knowledge, and they in turn authorised their students, who in turn authorised their students etc.

Also, Sunnis understand that the scholars are the inheritors of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace). By this, I mean that we place a lot of emphasis on taking Sacred Knowledge from those who are suitably knowldegeable and qualified to teach it - as trying to find out about certain rulings or stances in Islam on our own (without the necessary knowledge and understanding), could lead us and others astray (may God protect us from that).

Another reason I chose Sunni Islam is because it is very balanced in many respects, two of these being:

1) We have great love for the Companions and the Family of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) and for the Prophet himself (God bless him and give him peace), and as such we take Sacred Knowledge from both groups.

I, and I'm sure many others too, recognise that learning sacred knowledge from those who are of the Family of the Prophet (God bless them and give them peace) is of great benefit. This is shown in the history of Sunni Islam - many, many of those who descended from the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace) were individuals who contributed vastly to our religion (may God be well pleased with all of them!).

However, we don't restrict ourselves to taking knowledge from the Family of the Prophet. I think this is the main difference between us and the Shi'a (although they may also have a different definition of who is part of the Progeny of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace)... and God knows best).

2) Sunni Islam, unlike some of the groupings, is very balanced in that we recognise that religion (din) has different facets, and this is confirmed by a very famous and rigorously authenticated Hadith from our Prophet (God bless him and give him peace). Whereas some other groups would maintain the position that Islam is just an outward form, we would say that religion (din) consists of three main parts - faith (iman), obedience (islam) and purification (ihsan). So a believer is someone who has faith, who adheres to the Sacred Law that has been revealed and who strives to purify his heart and his mind and rid himself of all bad traits and habits.

Generally, to my knowledge (and God knows best), Salafis and Wahhabis are not classified as Sunni.

This is because the main criteria for being Sunni are:

- Having beliefs that conform to the established theological schools (as far as I know, these are the Ash'ari, Maturidi, Athari schools).

- Following one of the four established legal schools (the Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali schools) for matters pertaining to implementing the Sacred Law.

From what the scholars have said, Salafis / Wahhabis do not generally meet these criteria.

At this point, I just want to clarify that although the scholars have said that Salafis / Wahhabis / Shi'a are not Sunni, they have also said that this does not necessarily mean they are outside the fold of Islam. Declaring someone to be a disbeliever is an enormity in Islam, and is not something that should be done lightly by any means.

I could probably write more... but I think I've gone on long enough.

If I've made any mistakes, please feel free to correct me.

I hope this information is useful in aiding your understanding of this issue. And God knows best.



Simon

[mospike]

Shukran for the info. May Allah reward you!@!

[trustE]

Salams

Thanks for your answers. Someone asked whether I was muslim or not...well I would say I'm a very new muslim. I don't consider myself ready to choose any type of sub-religion before I have seen different angles and before I have a fair chance of learning in-depth about everything I need to know. After that inshaAllah, I will see what's right for me.

From your answers I have concluded that:
- subreligion of sunni follow the path of sahaba/salaf
-as for why you choose sunni for subreligion I got some points...
-you "love" the sahabas ajmain and the ahle-e-bait, still the foremost and closest "people" to sunni are the sahabas ajmain

As for the various comments on shiaislam, these are not immediately relevant at this point and each subreligion is of course best to inquire and discuss with it's own followers. Thanks Simon Iskander for your personal view points and for pointing out the danger in proclaiming disbelief,
and also thanks to the rest of you as well for posting.

For the time being I want to consider myself "plain" muslim w/o adhering sunni/shia as subreligion indefinetly.
Let me leave with a few questions:
-Is it alright to criticize any of the sahabas or is it all or none for sunni?
-Why do sunni usually "Sallallah aleyhi wa sallam" after the Prophet and not include his family like shias do?
-Is the caliphate what a sunni should consider right for leadership of an islamic country?

Thank you for taking time
Salams

[Shaykhs-Pir Sahib]

Let me leave with a few questions:
-Is it alright to criticize any of the sahabas or is it all or none for sunni?
-Why do sunni usually "Sallallah aleyhi wa sallam" after the Prophet and not include his family like shias do?
-Is the caliphate what a sunni should consider right for leadership of an islamic country?

Thank you for taking time
Salams

salams

1. no, the sahaba differed, and although we may accept the opinions of one over another, we never criticise any sahaba.

2. 'sallallahu alayhi wa sallam' is reserved for the prophet, and the companions themselves used to say it. we say 'alayhi-salam' for other prophets, and are permitted to say 'alayhi-salam' for ali. however, for the sahaba and salaf in general, we say 'radiyallahu anhu'.

3. caliphate is obligatory for muslims. this entails some sort of government which implements shari'a. the actual make-up of that government is open to interpretation.

[Simon Iskander]

I have heard some Sunni scholars use the salutation 'sallallahu 'alayhi wa 'ala alihi wa sallam'. One example being Shaykh Habib 'Ali al-Jifri (may God preserve him).

Does anyone have any information on whether it is recommended to use this salutation?

And God knows best.





Simon