Imam Ghazzali and music

[mh16388]

aoa,

this is a response from a person who runs a facebook page about islam, to a fatwa against music. the page's link is given at the end of the post. one of the things that interested me were the mention of Imam Ghazzali as support for legality of music. i would like those who have knowledge of the matter to please tell me how these four points do not support the stance that music isnt haram?i would really like to know.
the concern for me are the people who might get impressed with his answer that contradicts that of a 'mullah' and then start listening to music. so please help me out here in sha Allah.

This is an example of how we are committing a folly of misrepresenting the image of Islam and also committing a sin of changing the meanings of Quran inspite of clear warnings, “Lo! Those who wrangle concerning the revelations of Allah without a warrant having come unto them, there is naught else in their breasts save pride which they will never attain. So take thou refuge in Allah. Lo! He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer. ” (40:56)

1. Please see Ihya-e-Ullomud-Deen by great Imam Ghazzali, Volume 2, Chapter 10, on music and ecstasy. This scholar certainly is an authority, much more sublime then any one on the face of earth today, quoted above, a reason why is called "Hujjat-ul-Islam, clearly explaining, "What kind of music is not recommended and what is allowed.

2. We have also heard the mention of "Lehn-e-Dawodi".

3. See Quran, "The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but HYMNETH His praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving." (17:44). This certainly includes the most melodious birds singing the praises of Allah in their own ways, besides others altogether in different ways, e.g. the lightening from clouds, "Ra'ad".

4. When great Muslim Masters came to India, realizing the cultural tendencies of Hindus towards music used it extensively for the spread of their mission, Islam. People like Ameer Khusro, a disciple of Nizam ud Deen, created musical instruments, new techniques, Ragas and special genre to help spread Islam in India like “Qawali”. No one can undermine their creditable job of spreading Islam in the whole subcontinent.

So! Please let's not make people hate our beloved religion, the acme of guidance from the Creator for all times to come, only because of our lack of knowledge and a typical myopic approach which has seriously defiled and battered the image of Islam a religion of nature, most dynamic, practical, adaptable, flexible and ever fresh for all times to come.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/187818107950817/

[abuhajira]

Discussed the permission of Imam Ghazali with br. murabit in one of the old threads.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Again!-!/page2

[mh16388]

JZK, Your Scholarship.
what about the rest of the points, esp number 4?

[abdulwahhab]

JZK, Your Scholarship.
what about the rest of the points, esp number 4?

Point number 4 is the most useless of the points. What music has been used to do is further Hinduism in India and Pakistan and caused Muslims to leave Islam. A lot of "qawwalis" are done at shrines where Hindus and "Muslims" worship together. The ends do not justify the means. The mentality that led to allowing music is one of the reasons that organizations like Tableeghi Jamaat had to be created to save Muslims from shirk and kufr.

Tell this person that if one is attracted to Islam, not because of its truth, but because of its "music", then that is extremely weak faith, if it is faith at all.

As for "Lehn-e-Dawodi" - this is again a repeatedly regurgitated point that is also completely ridiculous. How can someone's voice be used as a proof for the permissibility for music? If someone has a good voice and recites the Qur'an, is this to be used as proof for permitting music?

And the third point...no comment. Has he even read the Arabic?

[abuhajira]

2. We have also heard the mention of "Lehn-e-Dawodi".

even if we for a second assume that Sayyiduna Dawood a.s was singing with music etc, then too his shariah is different than ours. In the Shariah of Adam a.s the marriage would be between brothers and sister from different sets of birthlings. Would that mean we should adopt marrying our sisters as well? Obviously we will see what has been prohibited and what has been permitted in our Shariah.

3. See Quran, "The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but HYMNETH His praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving." (17:44). This certainly includes the most melodious birds singing the praises of Allah in their own ways, besides others altogether in different ways, e.g. the lightening from clouds, "Ra'ad".

Which word from the ayah is hymeth? You see the emphasis was given to hymeth to make an allusion as though hymns will be something praiseworthy. A person's mind would go to Catholic hymns and church choirs with clapping, music and jumping of joy etc, and then keep of derailing into music. The ayah used the word Yusabbihu.. The same word Sabbaha is being used in the begining, but there the translation is "all that is therein praise Him" no mention of any hymn. So I feel this is seeking a meaning of Quran to suit their means.

The traslation used is that of Marmaduke Pikthall.. here are some other translations.

• The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare His glory: there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving! (Abdullah Yusuf Ali)
• The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but hymneth His praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving. (Mohamed Marmaduke Pickthall)
• The seven heavens declare His glory and the earth (too), and those who are in them; and there is not a single thing but glorifies Him with His praise, but you do not understand their glorification; surely He is Forbearing, Forgiving. (M. H. Shakir)
• The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving. (Taqiuddin Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan)
• There hallow Him the seven heavens and the earth and whosoever is therein. And naught there is but halloweth His praise, but ye understand not their hallowing; verily He is ever Forbearing, Forgiving. (Abdul-Majid Daryabadi)
• The seven heavens, the earth, and whosoever in them, exalt Him. There is nothing that does not exalt with His praise, but you do not understand their exaltation. Surely, He is Clement, Forgiving. (Hassan Qaribullah and Ahmed Darwish)
• The seven heavens and the earth and whoso is in them extol Him; nothing is there but it celebrates His praise, though you do not understand their extolling; surely He is Forbearing Forgiving. (Muhammad Ayub Khan)
• The seven heavens and the earth and those that are therein extol His glory; and there is not a thing but glorifies Him with His praise; but you understand not their glorification. Verily, He is Forbearing, Most Merciful. (Sher Ali)
• The seven heavens extol His limitless glory, and the earth, and all that they contain; and there is not a single thing but extols His limitless glory and praise: but you [O men] fail to grasp the manner of their glorifying Him! Verily, He is forbearing, much-forgiving! (Muhammad Asad)
• The seven heavens and the earth, and whosoever in them is, extol Him; nothing is, that does not proclaim His praise, but you do not understand their extolling. Surely He is All-clement, All-forgiving. (Arthur John Arberry)

No check the different verbs being used: celebrates, hymneth, glorifies, halloweth, exalts, extol and proclaim. Can we understand this to be music?

However, nothing wrong with hyming the praise. All our Naat Khuwaan do that without music. Go ahead add the chiruping of the birds and thunder of lightinging to them. no one will stop you. But dont start putting in harmonium, trumpets, octopads, beatboxing etc : )

4. When great Muslim Masters came to India, realizing the cultural tendencies of Hindus towards music used it extensively for the spread of their mission, Islam. People like Ameer Khusro, a disciple of Nizam ud Deen, created musical instruments, new techniques, Ragas and special genre to help spread Islam in India like “Qawali”. No one can undermine their creditable job of spreading Islam in the whole subcontinent.

I have heard this for over 20 years of my life that qawali brought hindus into islam. The issue is not of qawali. The only problem would be why Amir Khusro made musical instruments. So far I know of two instruments normally attributed to him. Tabla and Sitaar. In reality the origin of both is disputable and cannot be affirmatively attributed to Ameer Khusro. Nonetheless, even if we assume he invented them, still it will not deminish the ruling of music in Islam. So what if he invented it. Hajaj bin Yusuf killed Sahaba and at the same time preserved Quran for the reading of non arabs. Just because one of his action was so grand in deen, should we credit his other action of killing as well? We credit what is right, and discredit what is wrong.

As for qawali, a common understanding was to bring the hindus slowly out of misguidance. but that became a failed cause. Some did come out, and lived the pristine religion of Islam, while some who were still in trasition took that transition to be the aim and now justify the qawali.

All in all these are merely substantiative arguments and nothing concrete. It is the same argument if I say, Mr. A dated Sister Susan for 3 years and sister susan accepted Islam. and there are 1000's such sister susan in the western worlds. So can anyone "undermine their creditable job of spreading Islam in the whole" dating game?! The absurdity of argument can be gauged through this alone.

For a more academical read up on music, Slipery Stones by Khalid Baig is perfect.

[MujahidAbdullah]

JZK, Your Scholarship.
what about the rest of the points, esp number 4?

I remeber a brother who was a rapper used this excusse to validate his rap career - he asked permission from one of the khalifas of my sheikh to continue rapping and doing concerts and releasing records - Khalifa sahab said "Music bitters the heart like Aloe bitters honey, the sahabah didnt need to rap to spread Islam, neither do you."

where do we stop the compromising to please those receiving dawah? How about if I open a strip club and have the dancers pass out dawah packets - or maybe I should serve free alchoholic beverages at the masjid and invite all the college kids in town, they can sip cocktails while I tell them about the bounties Allah will bestow upon them after they take shahadah (ill leave out the no alchohol part until after they convert)

[mh16388]

aoa,

JZK brother abu hajira for the other thread. i just finished reading it. masha Allah you present your arguments very well. what i gather from the discussion as well as the posts from the brothers on this thread is that there is a very very strict condition upon which 'music' might be allowed. that is when, as sister sudoku said in another thread, it is used as a prescription. the prescription given by a sheikh to a mureed. but there are serious flaws in it:
what if someone does self-diagnosis?the sheikh, as she said and as bro murabit said analyses the inner state of the mureed and then gives him a 'medicine'. what if someone doesnt have a sheikh?and since there is no clear fatwa to say one must have a sheikh and only a sheikh can diagnose your inner demons then this opens the door for 'i will do it myself'...seeing that a common person might take this to be the permission to listen to instrumentals of metallica (great music. no vocals) to heal himself or to calm himself down. what if he decides he can listen to a song by the same band about 'mother' which now has vocals. he finds he loves his mother more after that. then one day he feels angry at his wife so he listens to a song which abuses women using offensive language. he finds that it calms him down. and so slowly his playlist builds. he has no sheikh to check this. surely islamic shariah does not legislate for something very probable like this to happen. it is a gaping loophole which those who are pro-music do not have an answer to. hence this should have no place in shariah whatsoever.
but on the other hand the same can be done with remembrance of Allah, prescribed or not prescribed by a sheikh.
i personally think remembrance of Allah and music cannot co-exist in one's heart. and i have a strong conviction that music creates false emotions. i have experienced it myself. which is why i wont do it even if a sheikh told me to (avoid what is doubtful) because i know that the calm i feel when i hear Allah o Akbar is real while the calm i feel when i hear sitar is not. it is created by my nafs to lead me astray.
so the harms of music are too much and too many to use opinion of one scholar who deemed it permissible to prove its permissiveness. and as you said if we are considering rankings then surely in matters of determining permissiveness imam shafi'i, haneefa and malik rank higher. if i remb correctly that is also mentioned in imam ghazzali's own book.

in sha Allah i,or a friend of mine, will compile an answer so that it can be used to give evidence as to what is defined in shariah regarding music. i feel for those who read that facebook group admin's note and turned to their ipods. nowhere does it state the strict conditions which even imam ghazzali laid down. nowhere it mentions the potential harms or the criticism music has faced from scholars much more learned than him. this is irresponsible scholarship.

it would be great if someone can correct me if ive said something incorrect. i wd appreciate it.

[sakeranz]

ummm
south east asia case, Malay archipelago

most people convert to Islam and still have faith in Islam for century although DeIslamization during Western ocupation, because Islam was spread through cultural approach like Music, shadow puppet show etc
and in the beginning, before Europe came, that same approach "convert" majority Hindu and Budha community to Islam

and yes, DeIslamization still in Active today,but now in the form of music, fashion, movie etc , but those anti Islamic people surprised when some "major" secular band become Religious Band, and Islamic Movie have highest Ratting then Their "western like Movie"

so IMO, im agree with "What kind of music is not recommended and what is allowed" not all are Haram

[akabirofdeoband]

I was skimming through the bahawalpur lectures
Shaykh hamidullah(ra) seems to allow music
Is that true? Was he deobandi?

[Saad]

I was skimming through the bahawalpur lectures
Shaykh hamidullah(ra) seems to allow music
Is that true? Was he deobandi?

Assalam o 'alaykum,

Get Khutbat Bahawalpuri ka 'Ilmi Jaizah by Mawlana Muhamamd ‘Abd Allah published by Maktaba Ludhianwi.