Fiat Money and the Shariah?

[xs11ax]

is fiat money an acceptable form of money within the scope of the shariah?

does the shariah recognise and accept a currency that has no real value behind it except for the value that is attributed to it by the issuing government?

is there a shari definition of money/currency?

is it acceptable within the scope of the shariah that the value of fiat money fluctuates?.........eg is it ok that the money that you saved and earned from work last year does not have the same value from the time that you earned it, and later still over the months and years the value of that money will continue to change and fall.

[NNoor]

I don't know the answers to those questions (I think I read somewhere that, in principle, fiat money is ok. Not sure though).

However, the thing to keep in mind is that in the real world there is no such thing as fiat money that is issued by the government. All (most?) currencies are actually bank notes (for example, if you look at US currency, it does not say, "US Treasury note" or "US Govt Note". Instead, it says, "Federal Reserve Note" (the Fed is an amalgamation of private banks).

That is, (very basically speaking) they are loans by the banks to the government, and interest is owed on those notes. Also consider the fact that banks and governments collude to such an extent that they are essentially one and the same...I don't know what that means for the shariah status of such currencies.

I hate banks with a passion. May Allah destroy them all.

[xs11ax]

I don't know the answers to those questions (I think I read somewhere that, in principle, fiat money is ok. Not sure though).

However, the thing to keep in mind is that in the real world there is no such thing as fiat money that is issued by the government. All (most?) currencies are actually bank notes (for example, if you look at US currency, it does not say, "US Treasury note" or "US Govt Note". Instead, it says, "Federal Reserve Note" (the Fed is an amalgamation of private banks).

That is, (very basically speaking) they are loans by the banks to the government, and interest is owed on those notes. Also consider the fact that banks and governments collude to such an extent that they are essentially one and the same...I don't know what that means for the shariah status of such currencies.

I hate banks with a passion. May Allah destroy them all.

for your reply.

it seems that the present system of fiat money survives on interest and would not work without interest.
so in the strict sense, as soon as a person starts using money he is dealing in interest?

also, why does the government need the banks to issue this money? why do they not issue this money themselves?

[xs11ax]

bump!

[marco100]

[QUOTE=xs11ax;680409]

for your reply.

it seems that the present system of fiat money survives on interest and would not work without interest.
so in the strict sense, as soon as a person starts using money he is dealing in interest?

also, why does the government need the banks to issue this money? why do they not issue this money themselves?[/QUOTE]



abe lincoln tried doing that and did for a while....but he was assassinated for it

kennedy wanted to do this......and was assassinated for it

as the father of rothschilds said "give me control of a nations money and i care not who makes the laws".

you now can add the dots together and work out yourself the answer to your question

[xs11ax]

abe lincoln tried doing that and did for a while....but he was assassinated for it

kennedy wanted to do this......and was assassinated for it

as the father of rothschilds said "give me control of a nations money and i care not who makes the laws".

you now can add the dots together and work out yourself the answer to your question

from what i have read on the net, fiat currency took over in 1971. both abe and jfk were dead long before 1971. maybe the currency was still gold based in their days but was being controlled by a body other than the government.

what i am talking about is money that has no real value except the value that has been assigned to it by law. money that has nothing to back it up. no gold, no silver, no whatever. this is the money that we use today.

from the little that i know, a fiat currency cannot survive without usury. the very basis of a fiat currency is interest.

[The Fake Shaykh]

abe lincoln tried doing that and did for a while....but he was assassinated for it

kennedy wanted to do this......and was assassinated for it

as the father of rothschilds said "give me control of a nations money and i care not who makes the laws".

you now can add the dots together and work out yourself the answer to your question

It definetly looks like you've been reading brother pawlak's post's and threads

[NNoor]

I'm not sure if I believe in Lincoln and JFK being assassinated for that reason, but I suppose it's possible. Lincoln did refuse to pay the bank's ridiculous interest rates when he needed funding for the Civil War.

I have no idea why the government doesn't issue its own money. But the following might be helpful in understanding:

Yet another thing to understand is that there is far more "money" in the economy than there are currency notes floating around. I'm sure you know about fractional reserve banking. I don't know what the current reserve requirement is in the US, but I'd be willing to bet its close to 0%. But for the sake of explanation, let's assume the requirement is 10% (I'm sure it's actually far less). That means if you deposit $1000 in the bank, the bank can then go and loan out $10,000 against your deposit, while charging exorbitant interest rates.

This is obviously unethical...the bank is making money off of assets it doesn't have (that's on top of the fact of riba being unethical to begin with). I doubt the Federal Reserve even has 1% in reserve, which would explain why they so vehemently refuse to allow auditing of their books. The banks and government regularly screw around with the reserve rate and other economic tools, and in the process, the wreak havoc on people's lives. People see their assets depreciate, their jobs disappear, etc. But the banks and the government always benefit.

So the "money" supply isn't even pieces of paper with some value determined by the government, it's a bunch of 0s and 1s on a computer drive. When the government needs money, they go to the bank and tell them how much is needed. The bank will transfer the "money" (the digits on a computer screen) into the relevant accounts. In exchange, they get some promise of repayment at a given rate of interest (for example, Treasury bills/ government bonds).

It's all just one big scam. Heard of the revolving door in Washington? It's basically the phenomenon of bankers and heads of corporations going to work for the government for a few years. While working for the government, they enact legislation and policies that benefit their banks or corporations. Then after a few years, they go back to work for those very same institutions, in which they doubtless own shares. So it's like a revolving door between gov't and banks/corporations. It's all the same people getting rich off these scams.

This video might be informative, it came up on a quick Google search:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sK...eature=related