Info about the Shia

[shadowcaster]

Salam. It's my first post here.

I would like to know what the source of dislike/hate of Shia Muslims is. Do you learn to hate shias from books, friends, scholars or other? What are the main points that they make to have you dislike the Shia?

As a Shia Muslim I would like to know what is causing divisions in our ummah between us and our Sunni brothers. This post is for my own knowledge increasing and not a way to allow people to vent their hate/cursing of Shia. Keep it nice, simple, short and factual please.

[Sad ibn Abu Waqqas]

Salam. It's my first post here.

I would like to know what the source of dislike/hate of Shia Muslims is. Do you learn to hate shias from books, friends, scholars or other? What are the main points that they make to have you dislike the Shia?

As a Shia Muslim I would like to know what is causing divisions in our ummah between us and our Sunni brothers. This post is for my own knowledge increasing and not a way to allow people to vent their hate/cursing of Shia. Keep it nice, simple, short and factual please.

Salam 'Alaykum,

Ahlan Wa Sahlan. Welcome.


Of all the sects, they are generally regarded as being the most prone to telling lies in furtherance of their cause.

Wa al-Salam...

[godilali]

You should probably be focusing more on Shia hatred of the Sahaba.

[random]

those who hate, hate out of ignorance....now we might not agree with ur sect...doesnt mean we hate u. same could be said of many shia brothers n sisters and u can ask why they hate us?

personally i have yet to find these sunnis who hate shias. but yeah the shia hatred for the sahaba and other prominent figures sometimes make it hard to respect where they are coming from.

ive even heard some shia scholars say "we must learn to hate b4 we can love" so i dont think its right to imply we are the ones brought up to hate thru our religious teachings.

btw this should be merged with the official shia/sunni thread...which seems t have died out.

[Abu Hurayrah]

Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim

Hello Brother. With all due respect to you please visit www.ansar.org . It might be a little too detialed for you but inshAllah everything will be all right.

Ma salam

[shadowcaster]

Salam.

Thanks for the replies and sorry that i havent been back for so long (holiday). Brother Abu Huraira, there is a countering site edited out I have read neither one.

So, we have some main points for the reasons of dislike/hate of Shia...

1) claims All Shias are (constant) liars and are prone to lying to forward their sect
2) claims that Shias hate the Sahaba
3) claims Shias hate 'prominant figures'
4) claims scholars teach the Shia to hate as doctrine/upbringing

questions in return...

(1) I need to know the sources to where these teachings and things you are telling me about the Shias come from please.
(2) Do you trust a Shia when he says religious things/teachings? Do you fear he/she is teaching you false/moderated beliefs? Why do you feel Shias lie apparently even when they are relating the same Surahs and hadiths as you have in your books and even when they are talking about matters of basic religion/jurisprudence?
(3) Does praying behind a Shia in Jamaa (congretional) prayers make your prayer invalid and would you pray behind a Shia even if you had this belief? What if the Shia imam left out the mustahab actions (that you see make the prayers appear different), so that the prayer was almost exactly the same as the Sunni way of praying? Would you loudly pronounce the 'Ameen' inbetween surahs even though the Shia imam considers this annuling?
(4) If you believe Shias hate the Sahaba, define the meaning of the word sahabi, and can you tell me which of them they hate and for what reasons please
(5) Prominant figures are whome exactly?
(6) Where and who teaches these things such as to learn to hate the sahaba and what topics are these preachers talking about? From a 'secularist, not sunni Muslim, but humanist' point of view, do you believe they (Shia) have even an ounce of right to dislike the actions of certain Sahabis and 'prominant figures'?
(7) Do you still believe that the Shia have a different Quran? What makes you believe this even though if any of us went to a Shia masjid and took a copy of the mushaf it would be the same?
(8) What things make the Shia allegible for takfir (labeled infedel)?
(9) (Religious politics question): After all that was revealed about Saddam Hussain (LA), do you still have support for him... even a little?
(10) Which of the four Sunni schools of thought are closest to Shia teachings and why?

Thanks.

[shadowcaster]

OK then, will you at least answer some of the questions? btw, here is question 11 - Define cursing please.

[Abu Suliman]

Here are the beliefs of shia regarding the Companions(ra) with proofs from shia books,This will prove to you why we hate shia sect.

Companions (r.a)

"I believe in ALLAH, in His Angels, His Scriptures, His Prophets, the Day of Judgment, and in the fact that every thing good or bad (in the world) is pre-destined by ALLAH the Exalted, and in the resurrection after death."

Belief of a Shia for Companions (r.a) of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) is:

They charge that all save a few of the Companions had turned apostate after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w). On the other hand, they grant the Companion "Ali bin Abi Talib" a very special status; some of them consider him vicegerent, and some view him as a Prophet, while others take him for a God! Shia's pass judgment on Muslims in accordance with their position with regards to "Ali". Whoever was elected caliph before "Ali" is held by them to be a tyrant, an apostate or a sinner. The same judgment is passed on every Muslim ruler who did not step down for any of the descendants of "Ali" and his wife "Fatima" (r.a). The Shia's have thus created an atmosphere of animosity throughout the history of Islam, and the question of partisanship of Ahl-e-Bayt developed into a school of thought which preached and perpetuated such detrimental teachings down through the generations.
1. "An insulting remarks against Hazrat Talha and Hazrat Zubair (r.a)". (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 345)

2. Sahabah (r.a) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 420)

3. After the said demised of the Prophet, all Sahabah turned apostate except four. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 43)

4. Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) could not recite Kalma at the time of his death. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 211)

5. Shaitan was the first to sworn the oath of allegiance from Abu Bakr in the mosque. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 30)

6. It is infidelity (Kufr) to doubt about the infidelity (Kufr) of Hazrat Umar. (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Page No. 63)

7. "Verdict of infidelity on first three caliphs". (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Page No. 81)

8. Those who deny the first of Hazrat Ali Caliphate are infidels. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 3, Page No. 264)

9. "An insulting remarks against Hazrat Umar". (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No 1, Page No. 82)

10. Abu Bakr and Umar were more tyrant than Shaitan. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 509)

11. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar among seven doors of the hell. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 500)

12. Abu Bakr and Umar are the human and pharos of this Ummah. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 374)

13. Imam Mehdi will order, the digging out from grave, the dead bodies of Shaikheen, make them alive and will be punished. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 371)

14. First three Caliphs were tyrant (an allegation). (Tehqeeq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 468)

15. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Muawiyah are like idols, they are worst of all the creatures of God. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 519)

16. "An allegation of hypocrisy on Caliphs". (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 528)

17. "A curse to Shaikheen and their companions till Qayamat". (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 159)

18. Abu Bakr and Umar will be scourge with stripes. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 464)

19. Imam Mehdi will dig out Shaikheen from their graves and will punish them. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 475)

20. Shaikheen will be the companions of Namrood, Firaun, and Haman in the Hell. (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 522)

21. He who prefer Abu Bakr and Umar than Ali, is Naasbi (Sunni). (Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Page No. 521)

22. All the Sahabah were infidel except three. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 923)

23. "Blame of adultery on Hazrat Usman (r.a)". (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 723)

24. He who make doubt in the infidelity of Hazrat Umar is infidel. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 842)

25. Those who swore allegiance to Hazrat Abu Bakr were hypocrites. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 1027)

26. To accurse Shaikheen, Ayesha, Hinda and Umm-ul-Hakm during prayer is obligatory. (Aain-ul-Hayat, Page No. 599)

27. "Resemblance of Abu Bakr with Saamry (Magician)". (Tazkara-tul-Ayema, Page No. 33)

28. Abu Bakr was the calf of the Bani Israel and Umar Saamry. (Behar-ul-Anwaar, Page No. 629)

29. Shia Imam Mehdi will order to hang the dead bodies of Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar. (Basair-ud-Darajat, Page No. 81)

30. Imam Mehdi will exhume the bodies of Hazrat Abu Bakr & Hazrat Umar. (Basair-ud-Darajat, Page No. 80)

31. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar were the followers of Shaitan. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 674)

32. In Holy Quran (Fahsha) refers to Abu Bakr, (Munkir) refers to Umar, and (Baghi) refers to Usman. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 551)

33. Sahabas turned apostates except Hazrat Miqdad, Hazrat Salman Farsi and Hazrat Abu Zar. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 134)

34. Hazrat Abu Bakr was the first person who embraced Shaitan's religion. (Charagh-e-Mustafvi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 18)

35. Abu Bakr used to have abusive language. (Sheikh-e-Saqifa, Page No. 148)

36. Shia should keep fast (roza) of thanks to celebrate the day of Umar's death on every 9th Rabi-ul-Awwal. (Zaad-ul-Meyad, Page No. 404)

37. To invoke curse on Umar, Ayesha, died on 22nd Rajab, all Shia's must keep fast to celebrate that day. (Zaad-ul-Meyad, Page No. 34)

38. Hazrat Umar was born by committing fornication with real daughter. (Tanzia-ul-Insaab Fee Sheikh-ul-Ashaab, Page No. 23)

39. The father of Hazrat Usman was impotent and mother was prostitute. (Tanzia-ul-Insaab Fee Sheikh-ul-Ashaab, Page No. 66)

40. According to different Shia Book's, Umar was Sodomist. (Tohfa-e-Hanfia Dar Jawab Tohfa-e-Jaffria, Page No. 434)

41. Umar was impudent to the Holy Prophet (s.a.w). (Tohfa-e-Hanfia Dar Jawab Tohfa-e-Jaffria, Page No. 435)

42. The Sahabah are mentioned as criminal, and hypocrite. (Fasal-ul-Khitab, Page No. 21)

43. Assimilation of Shaikheen's Caliphate with penis of an ass. (Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Hanfia Dar Jawab Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Jaffria, Page No. 72)

44. A worst impudent of Sahabah writes that by writing the names of Shaikheen on testis, ejaculation can not take place. (Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Hanfia Dar Jawab Haqeeqat-e-Fiqah Jaffria, Page No. 250)

45. Sunni were Sodomist like Umar. (Tohfa-e-Hanfia Dar Jawab Tohfa-e-Jaffria, Page No. 122)

46. The Sahabah are perpetual inhabitants of Hell, how can their guidance lead us to right path ?. (Ahsan-ul-Fawaid Fee Sharah-ul-Aqaid, Page No. 356)

47. The first three Caliphs were Liars and were denial of doomsday. (Ahsan-ul-Fawaid Fee Sharah-ul-Aqaid, Page No. 599)

48. An allegation on Muawiyah of committing Zina (fornication) with his sister. (Yazeediat Bokhla Utthe, Page No. 126)

49. Sahabah are mentioned as dogs of Hell. (Manazara-e-Hussainia, Page No. 76)

50. He who hate first three Caliphs, will be destined to paradise. (Noor-e-Iman, Page No. 321)
__________________________________________________ __________

[shadowcaster]

If you had read my first post I stated:

This post is for my own knowledge increasing and not a way to allow people to vent their hate/cursing of Shia. Keep it nice, simple, short and factual please.

Is that really such a hard thing to do?

OK, now... lets compile your points (some of them repeating for some unknown reason). I am doing this although they barely come close to answering the questions I asked, and you must remember that it is not my intention to reply to any of these irregular accusations even though Shia Muslims definatly don't believe in almost all of them.

5) claims almost all sahaba turned apostates except 4. (later at point 22 it comes down to 3?)
6) claims we believe Ali (AS) to be a vicegerent/Prophet/God. (Astaghuriallah!; and what kind of understanding of a sect do you have when you give 3 different beliefs? Isn't a sect meant to have a single belief on something like this? You are going against common-sense!)
7) claims Shias believe all khalifs that aren't Imams are kafir.
8) claims Hazrat Abu Bakr could not recite Kalma at the time of his death. (What, he didn't do this during his life?)
9) claims Abu Bakr & Umar are tyrants & going to hell. (what? no mention of Uthman? are Shias missing something?)
10) claims Uthman was impotent and a bastard.
11) claims there is a different 'Shia' Imam Mehdi (AS). (That's Bahais btw )
12) claims Shias fast and pray to curse and celebrate the deaths of companions. (OMG! I must be praying a different salat and fasting the wrong days then )
13) claims Umar is sodomist.
14) claims Muawiyah commited adultary and incest.


OK. Now my questions. This time how about answering them.

(12) You claim Shias pass judgment on Muslims in accordance with their position with regards to Ali (AS). Please explain what that means.
(13) Who are Hazrat (what does Hazrat mean) Talha and Zubair?
(14) Who are shaikheen? I'm guessing that it is the first 3 khalifs?
(15) I'm confused as to wether naasibi means Sunni at all. Isn't a nasibi a hater of ahlulbayt? enlighten me.
(16) point 38 is hilarious. read it again. How can you make such an illogical mistake.
(17) In Islam is it allowed to have a bastard become the khalif or even a religious scholar or that sort of thing?

[Abu Suliman]

First of all you tell me what you believe regarding the first 3 khalifs(ra).
What i posted did not mean that you also believed but most shias believe that, i know i even heard them speak ill and use foul language against Harzat Abu bakr(ra)& Hazrat Umar(ra).
To me whoever uses that kind of language against them is a worst amongst the creation of ALLAH.
And i will hate them for i believe it is part of my Imaan to hate these people who dont respect these great Companions(ra).