My very long story about Islam, any advice appreciated

[malone]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have read them all and i will respond tomorrow as I have no time today.

Abdul Baset I am not a troll, nor a christian. It is funny to me that muslims are so small minded about their view of the world that they cannot fathom a muslim would want to leave islam.

But to put your mind at rest i will say here, i have never been a christian, and I NEVER WILL BE. If I think islam is illogical on many points than christianity is 100000000000x more with silly beliefs about god having a son, original sin of women, and trinity. i am not interested in such a religion.

to everyone else, thank you for taking the time to talk to me, i will respond as soon as i can.

[Abu Zakir]

Abdul Baset I am not a troll, nor a christian. It is funny to me that muslims are so small minded about their view of the world that they cannot fathom a muslim would want to leave islam.

Some Muslims, not all. Allah swt is the Guide He is also the Misguider. I am as My Servant Perceives me to be is the nearest meaning to a hadith a qudsi (meaning it is revelation from God but not recited as part of the Quran in prayers). Anyway the hadith explains that your view will shape your experinces...if you perceive Allah swt as cruel, or false God propounded by the Prophet Muhammad salal lahu alayhi wasalum, as a cruel man then you will experience Islam in that way.

I see the threats of Hell in the Quran as the love of Allah swt expressing itself, trying to motivate humans to do the right thing. Speak to motivational speakers and they will tell you most humans need both the carrot and the stick to get them moving, some might prefer the carrot and they may feel the stick is un-necessary...but this is only their own mis-conception, others need the threat of the stick.

[abdul baset]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have read them all and i will respond tomorrow as I have no time today.

Abdul Baset I am not a troll, nor a christian. It is funny to me that muslims are so small minded about their view of the world that they cannot fathom a muslim would want to leave islam.

But to put your mind at rest i will say here, i have never been a christian, and I NEVER WILL BE. If I think islam is illogical on many points than christianity is 100000000000x more with silly beliefs about god having a son, original sin of women, and trinity. i am not interested in such a religion.

to everyone else, thank you for taking the time to talk to me, i will respond as soon as i can.

im sorry if i offended you, but it seemed like you were a troll. i hope you come back to islam and allah guides you.

[faizol]

A fool doesn't know what he/she doesn't know, and yet he/she thinks he/she knows everything. A smart person knows what he/she doesn't know, and act accordingly.

The above statement is a neutral statement. It's up to anybody which path he/she chooses.


Allah Knows Best.

[Abu Zakir]

Who knows some of us may be destined to die as unbelievers on Allah swt Knows. Those who will die as unbelievers have no one to blame but themselves they were unbelievers and that is why Allah swt manifested their unbelief.

Trolls will also attempt to 'mis guide' people out of Islam by pretending to be sincere seekers of Islam, who despite their 'best efforts' to accept Islam just cannot find anything good within it and are forced to reject it. As long as this tempts other Muslims to do the same their job is done. It is subtle. I would be very weary of this malone. Some of her statements are very fishy...for instance

"It is funny to me that muslims are so small minded"

Would a knowledgeable Muslim really say this as if all Muslims are 'small minded'?

She also said in an earlier post that Muslims believe that divorce given in anger does not count according to 'sunni law', and if she is as knowledgeable as she claims she would know that divorce given in anger counts...can a divorce be given in a state of not being angry?

The notion that women are hard done by in Islam comes right out of a feminist or Christian missionary handbook, no attempt is made by her at all to deeply reflect on the laws she finds offensive, she appears to be parroting things she has heard others say without any understanding. And lastly the view that angels or jinn do not exist is typical 'Rationalist/Materialist' assumptions which for the most part are mere unfounded beliefs masquarading as Realist and true.

A fool doesn't know what he/she doesn't know, and yet he/she thinks he/she knows everything. A smart person knows what he/she doesn't know, and act accordingly.

The above statement is a neutral statement. It's up to anybody which path he/she chooses.


Allah Knows Best.

[malone]

You know I just logged on quickly to thank you for the message you posted before this one, because in my haste I tarred all muslims with the same brush, when actually majority of people here are v helpful, then i find your message above

Who knows some of us may be destined to die as unbelievers on Allah swt Knows. Those who will die as unbelievers have no one to blame but themselves they were unbelievers and that is why Allah swt manifested their unbelief.

That is such circular logic it makes no sense! You disbelieve because you are a disbeliever so Allah showed your disbelief? This makes no sense.

Trolls will also attempt to 'mis guide' people out of Islam by pretending to be sincere seekers of Islam, who despite their 'best efforts' to accept Islam just cannot find anything good within it and are forced to reject it. As long as this tempts other Muslims to do the same their job is done. It is subtle.

in my posts i have never said I cannot see the good points of it, read my posts again there are places where i have mentioned that i think islam is the best of all relgions but that doesn't mean i cannot see the flaws in it!

I would be very weary of this malone. Some of her statements are very fishy...for instance

"It is funny to me that muslims are so small minded"

Would a knowledgeable Muslim really say this as if all Muslims are 'small minded'?

What does being a knowledgeable muslim have to do with it?! I was hasty in my judgement, because i am annoyed at being called a troll because some people cannot understand that others may see flaws in their 'perfect' way of life so instead of discussing they start calling people troll etc.

She also said in an earlier post that Muslims believe that divorce given in anger does not count according to 'sunni law', and if she is as knowledgeable as she claims she would know that divorce given in anger counts...can a divorce be given in a state of not being angry?

I did not say Sunni law, i said islamic law i think??? And YES a divorce can be given in a state of not being angry, it SHOULD be given like a GROWN UP when two people sit down and decide why the marriage should end, not like CHILD who when his ego is hurt just scream TALAQ whenever he likes it!

ALSO, PLEASE check the link I provided from islamqa it CLEARLY states that divorce in state of extreme anger does not count.

The notion that women are hard done by in Islam comes right out of a feminist or Christian missionary handbook, no attempt is made by her at all to deeply reflect on the laws she finds offensive, she appears to be parroting things she has heard others say without any understanding. And lastly the view that angels or jinn do not exist is typical 'Rationalist/Materialist' assumptions which for the most part are mere unfounded beliefs masquarading as Realist and true.

The notion that women are hard done by in Islam is the TRUTH. In Islam who has the most control on the woman's life. THE MEN in her life. I have stated again and again the things I think are unfair, and yes you could say there is a 'reasoning' behind each one but that is because you are unable to see the flaws yourself. And I am not parrotting anything. For many years I parrotting the 'reasoning' to try and convince myself this was the right way until I could not take it anymore. You can tell a women it is all for her protection etc etc but after a while this is annoying to hear.

And there is nothing wrong with saying angel/jinn do not exist - do you believe in ghosts? or fairies? or elves? To me these are one and the same, mythology creatures with no proper evidence for their existance. Why should I believe in such things without reason. If someone told you he saw a unicorn would you believe him too just like that?

[faizol]

And there is nothing wrong with saying angel/jinn do not exist - do you believe in ghosts? or fairies? or elves? To me these are one and the same, mythology creatures with no proper evidence for their existance. Why should I believe in such things without reason. If someone told you he saw a unicorn would you believe him too just like that?

if you believe in the judgement day, then how is it that it's difficult for you to believe that there are angels and jinn? Both angels and jinns are told in the Quran, and relayed by the Beloved Prophet . Saying otherwise is against the Quran. Or do you think that any existence can be probed under a microscope?

Also, do you actually have a bad history with men in your family? Your disdain of Islam seems like very much influenced by your emotions towards men and oppose to "women being lower than men". I think you've read that pious women who obeyed her husband can choose any gate of heavens she wants to enter to. And you should also know that "obey your husband" is not obeying blindly, but as permissible by the shariah.

Allah Knows Best.

[malone]

if you believe in the judgement day, then how is it that it's difficult for you to believe that there are angels and jinn? Both angels and jinns are told in the Quran, and relayed by the Beloved Prophet . Saying otherwise is against the Quran. Or do you think that any existence can be probed under a microscope?

Also, do you actually have a bad history with men in your family? Your disdain of Islam seems like very much influenced by your emotions towards men and oppose to "women being lower than men". I think you've read that pious women who obeyed her husband can choose any gate of heavens she wants to enter to. And you should also know that "obey your husband" is not obeying blindly, but as permissible by the shariah.

Allah Knows Best.

I don't know if I believe in judgement. Not all existance can be probed under the microscpe sure, but this does not mean no evidence at all is required!!

And no most (not all) of the men in my family are fine, i have a good relationship with my father and brothers. My disdain on islam is not based on emotions to the men in my life but on what I think and feel when I read the rules. For example you relate the hadith of the women who is obedient to her husband can enter paradise any gate she likes but i read this and see yet ANOTHER way to control a woman so this is hanging over her her whole life, that she had better obey her husband or she will be punished by god!! if her husband says ANYTHING that is permissable by shariah she HAS to do it, even if she dislikes it so it is obeying blindly because her own opinions do not count as much as the men of her life.

[bugmenot]

For example you relate the hadith of the women who is obedient to her husband can enter paradise any gate she likes but i read this and see yet ANOTHER way to control a woman so this is hanging over her her whole life, that she had better obey her husband or she will be punished by god!! if her husband says ANYTHING that is permissable by shariah she HAS to do it, even if she dislikes it so it is obeying blindly because her own opinions do not count as much as the men of her life.

And men are supposed to obey the rulers even if they dislike them, so it is obeying blindly because people's opinion don't count as much as rulers', right?

Does organisation and discipline speak to you? There has to be a leader in every aspect but you don't understand.

[Abu Zakir]

That is such circular logic it makes no sense! You disbelieve because you are a disbeliever so Allah showed your disbelief? This makes no sense.

Allah swt created Creation Knowing some will be belivers and others will not, He still created the creation Knowing it and allowed the people themselves to manifest their true self. This is nor circular.

in my posts i have never said I cannot see the good points of it, read my posts again there are places where i have mentioned that i think islam is the best of all relgions but that doesn't mean i cannot see the flaws in it!

Okay my mistake, maybe your judgements are flawed.

What does being a knowledgeable muslim have to do with it?! I was hasty in my judgement, because i am annoyed at being called a troll because some people cannot understand that others may see flaws in their 'perfect' way of life so instead of discussing they start calling people troll etc.

You gave us a back story about you, we are on an annynymous MB where not everyone is who they claim to be, you say you are knowledgable yet I would not expect someone who has lived with Muslims to say things like that. I know for example that Muslims differ and are not all the same, even if I am angry and emotional.

I did not say Sunni law, i said islamic law i think??? And YES a divorce can be given in a state of not being angry, it SHOULD be given like a GROWN UP when two people sit down and decide why the marriage should end, not like CHILD who when his ego is hurt just scream TALAQ whenever he likes it!

It does not matter Islamic law or sunni law. Divorce cannot be given in a completely unemotional state...depending on the circumstances people are going to be emotionally affected. Anger in man exists for a reason it needs to be controlled but it cannot be eradicated or completely supressed.

ALSO, PLEASE check the link I provided from islamqa it CLEARLY states that divorce in state of extreme anger does not count.

Well that is a wrong opinion, I personally know Muslim men who are bullies and who cannot control their anger and I have witnessed them shouting and screaming at their wives...and I was horrified...this person I know is a salafi and he thinks the word divorce can be thrown about freely without consequence. He is not an example of a model Muslim.

The notion that women are hard done by in Islam is the TRUTH. In Islam who has the most control on the woman's life. THE MEN in her life. I have stated again and again the things I think are unfair, and yes you could say there is a 'reasoning' behind each one but that is because you are unable to see the flaws yourself. And I am not parrotting anything. For many years I parrotting the 'reasoning' to try and convince myself this was the right way until I could not take it anymore. You can tell a women it is all for her protection etc etc but after a while this is annoying to hear.And there is nothing wrong with saying angel/jinn do not exist - do you believe in ghosts? or fairies? or elves? To me these are one and the same, mythology creatures with no proper evidence for their existance. Why should I believe in such things without reason. If someone told you he saw a unicorn would you believe him too just like that?

When women can travel around freely around the world un-molested you can come back to me. Yes in our modern world everything appears safe, but this is false vulnrable women can be in danger just by breaking down on a motorway late at night they can be killed by some hoodlum, it still happens in countries like the UK today. If you think Islam is flawed because of this, then I think there is a problem with your reasoning not Islam, I do not see it.

Angels and Jinn exist because I believe in the Quran as the Word of Allah. If someone said unicorns exist I would need to know who they were and why they thought they existed. If you think the Quran is false and the Prophet was false then you have already left Islam. We can continue this particular discussion regarding fairies etc later if you wish. And the view that you can be agnostic is patently stupid. You are either an atheist who believes there are no Gods or a believer in religion. Agnostics implicitly assume there are no Gods because if there were they would not be agnostic and they would have eman.