Spiritual harms of argumentation and debates

[amr123]

Brother Ahmed has posted a beautiful thread regarding the topic here: http://www.muftisays.com/forums/peop...5/debates.html




At the beginning of the reply in differences of the ummat by Maulana Yusuf Ludhianvi Shaheed has wrote

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/diffumm.pdf

Quote
The interest and enthusiasm shown by yourself and your companions is praiseworthy and congratulatory. However, my advice is that you change this interest of yours from discussions and debates to learning and teaching Deen.

Devote your time and energies to the practical implementation of the Deen. You should make an effort to adopt the lifestyle of our beloved Nabi (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) and likewise turn the attention of others in that direction.

This suggestion of mine is based on two reasons. Discussions and debates hamper the ability of a person to carry out (good) actions. It is reported in Musnad-e-Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and Mustadrak Haakim that
Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said:
“That nation is not led astray after the guidance has been brought to them, except when they are given to arguments.”

Hence no good abodes for that nation that indulges in arguments and debates. Another point is that by having too many discussions and debates, generally, people‟s enthusiasm to understand is plagued, and they are more desirous of having their views and opinions accepted. Also, that person who is not very well learned in the Shariah, tends to get carried away and does not pay heed and give due consideration to the limits of the Shariah. At times it may happen that a thing may be false and incorrect (in terms of the Shariah) and this person will endeavour to prove it to be true and Haqq. At times in such discussions a person may slur and revile an accepted servant of Allah Ta`ala‟s, hence blackening his Book of Deeds. A combination of all these factors, not only deprives one of the virtue of good actions, in fact, one‟s mental ability and tendency to accept the Haqq decreases gradually.

Therefore, it is my humble and sincere advice to all of you that each one of you follow and place your trust on that Aalim, whom you envisage and consider as being on Haqq, whom you deem is an Aalim-e-Muhaqqiq, and who is conveying the Message of Allaah Ta`ala and the Sunnah of Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) to the people for the Pleasure of Allaah Ta`ala. Practice according to this person‟s advice and teachings and continue with your daily routine. Instead of all this vain discussions and debates, you should all rather spend your time more constructively and engage in Thikr, Tilaawat, Durood Shareef or some other beneficial Deeni work

[amr123]

http://www.muftisays.com/forums/peop...5/debates.html

I believe Mufti Taqi Usmani has done a bayan on the spiritual harms of argumentation and debates

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ti-Taqi-Usmani


Below is a transcription

00:00 – The second thing he stated, “Even if Argument & Debate are for/on Haqq, abstain from Argument & Debate.”


00:10 – This (Argument & Debate) is too from among the banalities – (caused by the tongue) one of it's great banalities.


00:18 – It is one of the great pastimes of the people. Wherever a gathering takes place and a topic arises, Argument & Debate begins. [They argue] on completely useless things, those that neither bring any benefit in this world, nor in the hereafter. On such things, Argument & Debate.


00:36 – And keep in mind that this Argument & Debate, this is such a thing, that it utterly destroys the Baatin (inner being, purity of soul) of the human being.


00:44 – There is a statement attributed to Imam Malik that states (Mufti Taqi Uthmani stated the words of Imam Malik in Arabic, followed by their Urdu Translation), Imam Malik states that, “Argument & Debate destroys the 'light' of knowledge.” Meaning (for example) this happens predominantly among scholars, this Argument & Debate, because every scholar thinks he knows more, and due to this, if another [scholar] states something [different] then [the first] is ready to argue. And hours are being spent in it (argument); whether the argument is oral, or as written words / writing, in it time is being spent.

Con't...

[Abul Lais]

Jazakallah khair brother amr123

another brilliant piece from your side.

What do you think brother: should all of us stop debating and arguing once and for all?

I am sincerely asking to hear your opinion...

Jazakallah

Abul Lais

[Maripat]

Jazakallah khair brother amr123

another brilliant piece from your side.

What do you think brother: should all of us stop debating and arguing once and for all?

I am sincerely asking to hear your opinion...

Jazakallah

Abul Lais

I'll insert my two paisas before Dr Amr. A discussion about religious matters is perhaps unavoidable because this is a legitimate way to propagate Islam and to gather knowledge of Islam. In my view we should try to conclude any discussion at the first sign of it turning into a debate. Of course consultation=mashwirah is the best way to gather knowledge. And in deed Allah(SWT) knows better.

[amr123]

First of all i should thank brother Ahmed of muftisays.com. He is the one who wrote the article.

Peaceful discussion with an open mind by quoting the ulema is always welcome. But one should accept if erred. Most often ppl go to great lengths just to twist things to suit their opinion. Also as shaykh Riyadul Haqq says leave the Fiqh to the ulema. If anyone has doubts post fatwas of the ulema rather than 'deriving' it ourselves. I have myself have erred quoting single hadith on fiqh issues.

But if someone tries to propagate deviant beliefs refute them properly. That too by providing proper daleel.

But what usually happens is we usually have convinced ourselves of an opinion, and we will not accept even if we are proved wrong. More often there are two or more valid opinions but we do not accept that either.

[Maripat]

Also as shaykh Riyadul Haqq says leave the Fiqh to the ulema.

This sounds like an excellent slogan. May be someone can create a banner and card for it. Leave the Fiqh to Ulama. Also get the Fiqh from Ulama.
Wassalam

[Aseatic]

Discussions and debates hamper the ability of a person to carry out (good) actions.

Debates, yes. But discussions? Maybe we understand the word "discussion" differently? To me "discussion" is not locking horns, but exchanging ideas, or negotiating, or making things organized.

But I've been reading the Six Thinking Hats of Edward de Bono...

[nameuser]

Also as shaykh Riyadul Haqq says leave the Fiqh to the ulema.

but amr sahab..where are ulema/scholars/muftis of this forum. Are they all have taken long Leave of Absence..as so many fiqh related queries go unanswered. do they ever involved/cared to answer any query of the people who sometimes are very desparate to get their query answered.

amr sahab.. i think right now i see the forum is going very decent/very respectful ...i don't understand why u started this thread just to disctract and to stress people for no reason.

tell ur mods. to involve in replying to peoples' queries and helping them out.

i really didn't understand their job until today...

[amr123]

but amr sahab..where are ulema/scholars/muftis of this forum. Are they all have taken long Leave of Absence..as so many fiqh related queries go unanswered. do they ever involved/cared to answer any query of the people who sometimes are very desparate to get their query answered.

Sister, just to make the point clear. One can always ask the ulema in the community. Only if there isn't one or difficult to access, depend on Internet. In internet also ask the query to reputed imams like the scholars of askimam.com daruliftha.com etc etc. This forum is not the only place. The ulema of this forum has not left completely. They are busy with helping people in their own community so we can't blame them.

P.s. Please don't call me saheb, i m just a normal person.

[amr123]

tell ur mods. to involve in replying to peoples' queries and helping them out.

i really didn't understand their job until today...

Sister you have no Idea what the mods have to go through to keep this Forum clean. Just spend around 2-3hrs every day checking every post posted in the forum, you will be surprised the amount of 'unwanted' posts that are being posted. But we do not see them as the mods already delete them.

Its true even I have criticized the mods, but I m a person with some free time and when I scan the forum my real life suffers, But the Mods balance both . I personally think the mods job is to keep the forums clean and the content relevant. To ask them to always participate in discussion is really pushing them. But often we see them posting very good discussions and blogs.