Qadiyanis/Ahmaddiya?

[IbnIsmail]

I don't make takfir on anyone.... It is not obligatory for a muslim to make takfir... From the hadiths that I read concerning this topic... making takfir is actually discouraged.... Because the Prophet (saw) discouraged making takfir, I don't make it.... So who am I going to follow... The Prophet (saw) or these people telling me to make takfir.... If you call someone a kafir and they are not, than you are... That's enough to discourage me from making takfir....

Rasoolullah made Takfir of Musailamah al Kadhab who was making the same claim as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed al Kadhab.

[byellow200]

It's the way Sunnis interpret 'Khatam-un Nabiyyin' and the way Ahmadis do. Sunnis say it means 'The last prophet' while Ahmadis say it means 'The best/greatest prophet'

I just want to confirm your beliefs before going in to any further dicussion.
Would i be correct in saying that you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani to be a prophet?

[byellow200]

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[mh16388]

has sheikh yusuf ludhianvi's 'tohfa-e-qadianiyat' (Gift to Qadianis) been translated in English?

[UntoldTruth]

I just want to confirm your beliefs before going in to any further dicussion.
Would i be correct in saying that you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani to be a prophet?

It's correct but not representation of complete story...

They believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Return of ISA (alayhi Salam)... So they only believe he is a prophet because they believe he is ISA... And ISA is a prophet by consensus...

To me it seems better trying to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is not the return of ISA than to prove he is not a prophet... Because that is root of their misguidance.... Concerning this issue...

[Baira]

In the second coming, Isa(as) will be just an Ummati of Prophet(Saw), not a Prophet.

Sunni believes that Isa (alayhi salam) is a Prophet and Messenger, and he will come after the Prophet Muhammad (Sallahu alayhi wa salam).
But we refer to Prophet Muhammad (sallahu alayhi wa salam) as the Last Prophet because Isa (AS) was a prophet before Prophet Muhammad (SAW)...
So when Isa comes back, he won't be a new prophet after Muhammad (SAW) because he already was a prophet (SAW)...

Another thing is that we don't believe Al Mahdi and Isa is the same person.... We Sunni believe Al Mahdi will come back before Isa and prepare for Isa's arrival.... So this is why we reject the beliefs of the Ahmadiyya, because hadith indicate the Al Mahdi will come back before Isa....

I hope that makes sense.

So will he be a prophet or just an Ummati of the Holy Prophet saw?

لا مهدي إلا عيس - There is no Mahdi except ‘Isa. [Sunah Ibn Maja. 35.24]

''Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.'' 33:40

@qaadiyanis... Do you deny this Ayat...The Holy Quran.. [Al-Ahzab 33:40]

Muhammad saw is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the

Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

(The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:40)

No, we don't...we translate it like you wrote it, nameuser.... with 'Seal' and not 'Last'...

I just want to confirm your beliefs before going in to any further dicussion.
Would i be correct in saying that you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani to be a prophet?

Yes.

Also, trying to suggest that judging others is somehow negative is contrary to Islam because Allah has given us the Qur'an and the Sunnah as tools to better ourselves and to separate haqq from baatil (i.e. JUDGE between good and evil). The Qadiani are far from haqq and are on pure baatil and kufr.

Leave the rest to Allah....you can never be 100% sure that you are right/wrong...these 'tools' should help you to become a good muslim and live an appropriate life and not to judge others.

they are kufr the guy says he is jesus (as) and the mehdi

لا مهدي إلا عيس - There is no Mahdi except ‘Isa. [Sunah Ibn Maja. 35.24]

@byellow200: If I want to know about Sunnis I go to their forum and ask, to make sure that the information i get is right. The same applies to Ahmadiyyat, if I want to expand my knowledge about it I don't copy paste from a Sunni website...

[Baira]

While I am sunni... I do consider you a muslim but I reject the claim that Ahmad was the Christ and Al Mahdi... But I do have a question... Do the Ahmadiyya have a spiritual path, like Sufism???

Ahmadiyya don't have a path of sufism...but the Promised Messiah as was a great Sufi.

[abdulwahhab]

'Isa will not be returning in a prophetic capacity because whenever prophets have been present, they have led the ummah, but when 'Isa returns, he won't be a prophet with an ummah but an ummati and will follow Imam Mahdi.

As for your citing of that narration (whose Arabic is incorrect because it reads "There is no Mahdi except Eees" not 'Isa):

Here's the correct narration: لا مهدي إلا عيسى
It is an extremely weak narration, with some ulama saying that it is fabricated. And these ulama did so before the dajjal Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was born so it wasn't even a political reaction. Furthermore, even those that do not call it fabricated but agree to its weakness say that it refers to the meaning of مهدي , which is perfectly guided. The ahadeeth about 'Isa returning as well as the mention that the Mahdi is a separate person from the lineage of Fatima are more correct and rigorously authenticated in comparison to this extremely weak hadeeth. It is part of Islam to not derive matters of aqaaid and belief from extremely weak narrations and if a narration is completely fabricated, it is to be thrown in the bin. The narration you're repeating is one hovering over the bin at best.

'Isa did not have any children so he cannot be related by lineage to Rasoolullah . We all know that the Mahdi will be a member of the Ahlul Bait.

Leave the rest to Allah....you can never be 100% sure that you are right/wrong...these 'tools' should help you to become a good muslim and live an appropriate life and not to judge others.

This is like saying we can never be sure that Qur'an is 100% right or wrong. We are 100% sure that the Qur'an is right and that Qadianism is wrong.

The Qur'an testifies against Qadianism - I even pasted the image before that says that Rasoolullah is the last prophet - no ifs, ands, or buts since the Arabic is extremely clear. I'll paste it again:

(once again, this is from the Qaloon mushaf and it clearly states that he is the "LAST of the prophets").

The tools are given to us to judge between good and evil because we are commanded to command the good and forbid the evil -الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر. So, despite all your attempts to make Islam equal to Christianity, the Qur'an, once again, is speaking against you. In Christianity, sure, you can leave the judging to God and let evils and fitan run rampant throughout society. But, that is not Islam. In Islam, we are commanded to stop evil with our hands. If not with our hands, then with our tongues. If not our tongues, then we have to hate it in our hearts and that is the weakest of imaan. So, it is not just praiseworthy, but obligatory upon all Muslims to defend the honour of Islam and Rasoolullah . So, anyone who claims that Islam is something that it isn't will be responded to and will be exposed.

Also, brother IbnIsmail said something that you failed to respond to:

Rasoolullah made Takfir of Musailamah al Kadhab who was making the same claim as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed al Kadhab.

What do you have to say to this?

[byellow200]

@byellow200: If I want to know about Sunnis I go to their forum and ask, to make sure that the information i get is right. The same applies to Ahmadiyyat, if I want to expand my knowledge about it I don't copy paste from a Sunni website...

Absolutely correct! Have you read mirza ghulam ahmad qadiyanis roohani khazain? If you havent can you please read it?
By the way what proof do you have that he is a prophet?

[byellow200]

Absolutely correct! Have you read mirza ghulam ahmad qadiyanis roohani khazain? If you havent can you please read it?
By the way what proof do you have that he is a prophet?

search for the original, you may be shocked by some of the things that are written.