leave the west!

[sunni-from-iraq]

salam brothers and sisters. my family haver come here from iraq for a long time now and seeing what fellow muslim youth are becoming here it makes me worry about the next generation. i have alot of muslim freinds but they seem to have become "westernised" 2 of my closest freinds were once reliouges and we were realy close but ow they have become extreamly perverted all they talk about is,well you know i am not sure if i can say it on this website but haram stuff and sexual things they when girls walk by they talk about her breasts and her body parts and how much they want it. and i always change the conversation i am starting to see that alot of muslim brothers and sisters living in the western world tend to drift away from islam seeing this scars me of the next generation and how they can become seeing this i think i would have been bettar if i stayed in iraq and take a bullet from saddam or the war anyway i wish for my future to return to the arab world were people dont drift away as usual i am also afraid of myself hoping that i wont become like this
please hold on to islam
excuse my bad grammer please

[abdulwahhab]

salam brothers and sisters. my family haver come here from iraq for a long time now and seeing what fellow muslim youth are becoming here it makes me worry about the next generation. i have alot of muslim freinds but they seem to have become "westernised" 2 of my closest freinds were once reliouges and we were realy close but ow they have become extreamly perverted all they talk about is,well you know i am not sure if i can say it on this website but haram stuff and sexual things they when girls walk by they talk about her breasts and her body parts and how much they want it. and i always change the conversation i am starting to see that alot of muslim brothers and sisters living in the western world tend to drift away from islam seeing this scars me of the next generation and how they can become seeing this i think i would have been bettar if i stayed in iraq and take a bullet from saddam or the war anyway i wish for my future to return to the arab world were people dont drift away as usual i am also afraid of myself hoping that i wont become like this
please hold on to islam
excuse my bad grammer please

It depends on where you are living in the West. If you're living in a community where there are many Muslims, it is hard to come by any Muslim who would talk about such things, especially with other Muslims. As for leaving the West, that is my intent as well, . I don't know about returning to Iraq because the Shi'a are in power there and if you live amongst the Shi'a, you might be killed by Sunnis. The best place for Arabic speaking Sunnis, IMO, is Saudi Arabia because the environment is good for protecting oneself from spiritual harm and for raising a family.

[sunni-from-iraq]

g

[sunni-from-iraq]

It depends on where you are living in the West. If you're living in a community where there are many Muslims, it is hard to come by any Muslim who would talk about such things, especially with other Muslims. As for leaving the West, that is my intent as well, . I don't know about returning to Iraq because the Shi'a are in power there and if you live amongst the Shi'a, you might be killed by Sunnis. The best place for Arabic speaking Sunnis, IMO, is Saudi Arabia because the environment is good for protecting oneself from spiritual harm and for raising a family.

true i am sad i cant return home evan if i do i am from a shia city of basrah their is barley any sunnies in basrah inshaalaah iraq will oneday return to its glorry but in the mean time yeah saudia seams like a nice place

[pluto]

I have come across many people who have become westernized living most of their lives in makkah and madinah or ksa, what do you say to that? And I have come across people living in the west who have become so pious that makes you say and I'm talking about all age groups. So there....in fact this reminds me of an interesting incident my bro told me, he went to this wise old buzurg in India (can't name him) and after exchanging pleasantries the buzurg (an old zimmeddar of tabligh) commented "people come to meet me from the gulf and it feels as though they are coming from a western country (no sunnah's) and people also come to meet me from the western countries but their attire is sunnah" - "saudi se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hai jaise woh amrika se aarahe hain, aur amrika se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hain jaise woh saudi se aarahe ho"

[abdulwahhab]

I have come across many people who have become westernized living most of their lives in makkah and madinah or ksa, what do you say to that? And I have come across people living in the west who have become so pious that makes you say and I'm talking about all age groups. So there....in fact this reminds me of an interesting incident my bro told me, he went to this wise old buzurg in India (can't name him) and after exchanging pleasantries the buzurg (an old zimmeddar of tabligh) commented "people come to meet me from the gulf and it feels as though they are coming from a western country (no sunnah's) and people also come to meet me from the western countries but their attire is sunnah" - "saudi se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hai jaise woh amrika se aarahe hain, aur amrika se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hain jaise woh saudi se aarahe ho"

The difference is intention. If someone goes to Saudi simply to earn a living, then of course he will be "modernized" since he never had the intention to better himself in his deen. But, if a person has the proper intention already, then it is best to live in an Islamic environment. Granted, Saudi Arabia isn't perfect, but it is better than any Western country and most Muslim countries if you want to practice your Islam.

It is difficult for a person with bad intentions to become extremely corrupt in Saudi Arabia because the means of corruption are hard to come by. On the other hand, you have Muslims who drink, have premarital relationships, eat haraam, wear gold and silk, talk profanities, etc. that live in the West because all these things can be done very easily - in fact, the culture around them tells them that if they don't indulge in these actions, they're pariahs and outcasts of society. You'd be hard pressed to find someone like that in Saudi Arabia. Whatever we may think of Saudi Arabia, a larger proportion of Saudis pray at the masajid than Pakistanis in Pakistan (never been to India, so can't say).

Considering that the brother is an Arab, Saudi Arabia would be the best option to move to once he is able to as it is a stable country and practices many more aspects of the shari'ah than other Muslim countries. I wouldn't recommend Saudi Arabia for non-Arabic speakers, though, and Urdu-speakers are much better off in certain areas of Pakistan (don't know about India).

[Aram]

sunni-from-iraq the west has a mixed bunch of muslims, whilst some have become inclined to the west there are many who even though the world is at their feet they have kicked it away and chosen Islam...i suggest that you try to find these people who are inclined to Islam and spend time with them as this will also inshaAllah benefit your imaan

[xs11ax]

I have come across many people who have become westernized living most of their lives in makkah and madinah or ksa, what do you say to that? And I have come across people living in the west who have become so pious that makes you say and I'm talking about all age groups. So there....in fact this reminds me of an interesting incident my bro told me, he went to this wise old buzurg in India (can't name him) and after exchanging pleasantries the buzurg (an old zimmeddar of tabligh) commented "people come to meet me from the gulf and it feels as though they are coming from a western country (no sunnah's) and people also come to meet me from the western countries but their attire is sunnah" - "saudi se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hai jaise woh amrika se aarahe hain, aur amrika se jab log aate hain toh aisa lagta hain jaise woh saudi se aarahe ho"

you cannot take isolated examples and apply it to the rest of the muslims in the west.

its a simple fact that the environment will have an affect on the person living in it. this is one of the basic ideologies of going out in tabligh jamaat. you take the person out of the bad environment of society and put him into the good environment of the masjid and then help him work on his rectification.

the reason that people in the muslim countries are just as bad as those in the non-muslim countries is because the muslim countries have gone far from the islamic model and and adopted the model of the kuffar.

the reason why the buzroog is not seeing people without sunnah from the non-muslim countries is because those people do not care for the deen and many will be probably atheist in their hearts, and the reason he is seeing muslims without sunnah from muslim countries is because despite everything they still have some iman in their hearts and they gravitate towards the deen.

all in all, i still think that deen wise muslim countries are a much better place for muslims to live in, the only problem i see is that life has been made very difficult in most muslim countries due to the corruption and security issues that directly affect the people living there.

but after saying that, it all depends on what you love and value. the immigrant muslims that first came to the UK sold their homes and their land in their native countries to pay for the carriage, left their parents behind, some left their wife and kids, they came to a foreign land with no knowledge of the language, people and customs, they had hardly any money on them, some even died on the ships trying to get here, they put up with racial abuse and assaults, they worked in dead end jobs with long hours, some had multiple jobs, they slept with strangers crammed into one room time-sharing the mattress. and now after so many years we have the immigrant communities owning multiple homes, businesses, taking part in politics, opening our own schools and madrasas etc....all this in just 50 years! they had a need and love for money so they did this.

we on the other hand claim we love our deen but we cannot even sacrifice a small percentage compared to to the sacrifice of the immigrant muslims. we have money, we have education, we speak the languages of our native muslim countries. we can also go back and build our own societies based around the deen, but we would rather not. the fact is that we love this life so much that we cannot make even a small sacrifice that would compromise our comfortable lives in the west. when challenged we will say that we are here for dawah to the non-muslims lol! how many of us give dawah to the non-muslims? we spend the majority of our time building our careers and buying expensive cars and houses but we say its ok because we are here for dawah lol. while we are doing our 'dawah' for a few hours a week, our children are turning into atheists. dont be fooled that they may go for eid salaat twice a year or even jummah salaat now and again. talk to them openly and you will be shocked at how many do not believe any more.

[Saj]

Salaam

How easy is it for non-Arabic speakers to live in Saudi Arabia - esp. Madinah any English/Urdu speaking communitites there? Someone above said not good idea. But as above post shows our parents generation came with hardly anything and sometimes very limited language skills and were able to cope.

Madina is top most priority for us (pending more detailed research) because I feel time of Dajjal very near. Pakistan is where my heart is at but too messy security and corruption-wise. Third list is Malaysia but it sent forces to Afghanistan, recently thinking Turkey (again part of ISAF).

Latest brainwave of Brunei - small, rich, good standard of living, tucked away out of trouble and a hop away from Malaysia.

Just want to get out of rat-race here and find slower pace of life that allows more focus on deen, family, society, surrounded by Muslims.

[amr123]

Salaam

How easy is it for non-Arabic speakers to live in Saudi Arabia - esp. Madinah any English/Urdu speaking communitites there? Someone above said not good idea. But as above post shows our parents generation came with hardly anything and sometimes very limited language skills and were able to cope.

Madina is top most priority for us (pending more detailed research) because I feel time of Dajjal very near. Pakistan is where my heart is at but too messy security and corruption-wise. Third list is Malaysia but it sent forces to Afghanistan, recently thinking Turkey (again part of ISAF).

Latest brainwave of Brunei - small, rich, good standard of living, tucked away out of trouble and a hop away from Malaysia.

Just want to get out of rat-race here and find slower pace of life that allows more focus on deen, family, society, surrounded by Muslims.

Also if one dies and is buried in Madina, the Prophet will intercede for that person.