Hanbali or Salafi?

[suleimanibnsalim]

salafism is changing quite rapidly since it first started to spread...before they were all very anti-madhabs (though taqleed was never really the problem...rather they wanted everyone to make taqleed of their scholars) then all the divisions came within the salafis themselves...so they spent a while arguing with one another and calling each other deviant and off the minhaj and what not...now that the label of salafis has become tarnished they have now adopted the hanbali label but preach the same stuff just under a new label

It was never about taqlid in the first place - at least in the gulf. Apart from the neo-enlightenment type of thinkers like 'Abduh, Rida (and al-Albani was influenced by the latter, by his own admission) that were against taqlid. Then we had people like Ibn al-Wazir, ash-Shawkani and al-Muqbili who were all Zaydis who escaped from their Zaydism by claiming Ijtihad. As for the Khalijis/Najdis, they were never against taqlid per se. It's only the sub-continental experience with ehley hadis that has given them this mistaken impression about khaliji salafis. Many things which Indo-Pak scholars complain about with regards to taqlid can be found in Sufi as well as salafi Arab scholars.

[NNoor]

Honestly from what I can tell, "salafis" are slowly just becoming re-assimilated into the Hanbali school, at least in America. Whereas a decade ago, salafis were completely anti mazhab and did nothing but shout "quran and sunnah"...that's now changing. After the ulemaa of the mazahib started to speak out and refute salafi arguments against taqleed, that's when they started changing their tone. Only recently have salafis started to emphasize the need for scholars and following a mazhab. This was not the case before. Now that they have acknowledged their error with regard to fiqh, they have taken up aqeedah as the main issue. And because finer points of aqeedah are not something overtly visible in people's everyday lives, alhamdulillah, hostilities have begun to die down as well.

And just because people engage in these kinds of discussions, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything to improve the condition of the ummah, so there's no need to keep bringing that up.

[AbuFatimah]

i dont think the salafi community has changed much, if anything, its the barelwis and deobandis who have had to adapt and change and leave their shirk and innovations behind and leave their backwards cultural practices and stop importanting non english speaking imams from pakistan over to the UK. THe young barelwis i know in sheffield say we need to follow the qur'an and sunnah and reject soem of teh backwards rubbish the barelwis in pakistan like to engage in. If you dont like what im saying then stop smashing salafis because how you feel when you read my posts are how I feel when you lot start smashing salafis. Although I follow salafi aqeedah i try to avoid fitnah with my brothers here and try to discuss issues taht I feel I get some beenfit from but the anti salafi thread every few threads really tick me off and it seems to me that laymen on here seem to attack salafis far more than your superiors in the deobandi establishment and other moderate sufi scholars, who rarely smash salafis or talk about divisions.

your superiors have signed an agreemnt and people might want to respect it:

http://muslimmatters.org/2007/09/22/...d-cooperation/

[NNoor]

i dont think the salafi community has changed much, if anything, its the barelwis and deobandis who have had to adapt and change and leave their shirk and innovations behind and leave their backwards cultural practices and stop importanting non english speaking imams from pakistan over to the UK. THe young barelwis i know in sheffield say we need to follow the qur'an and sunnah and reject soem of teh backwards rubbish the barelwis in pakistan like to engage in. If you dont like what im saying then stop smashing salafis because how you feel when you read my posts are how I feel when you lot start smashing salafis. Although I follow salafi aqeedah i try to avoid fitnah with my brothers here and try to discuss issues taht I feel I get some beenfit from but the anti salafi thread every few threads really tick me off and it seems to me that laymen on here seem to attack salafis far more than your superiors in the deobandi establishment and other moderate sufi scholars, who rarely smash salafis or talk about divisions.

your superiors have signed an agreemnt and people might want to respect it:

http://muslimmatters.org/2007/09/22/...d-cooperation/

Tell me, exactly, what shirk and innovations do Deobandis engage in? I would really love to know.

Don't kid yourself, it was salafis who started all of this hostility. We didn't even know what salafis were, until they started popping up in the masajid, going up to brothers after salah, and "correcting" them. Telling them their prayer was wrong, and you need to pray the correct way, which according to them is with your hands up on your throat and your legs spread 4 feet apart, looking like a circus act. I have never seen a Hanafi, Shafii or Maliki go around "correcting" people like this. Only salafis. Then when we start to answer the salafis in kind, they start playing the victim. It's ludicrous.

I would really like to know, do you ever go on salafi forums and tell them to stop bashing hanafis and asharis?

I'll respect that "agreement" when Yasir Qadhi publicly repents and retracts his labeling of Shaykh Muhammad ibn `Alawi al-Maliki as a mushrik.

[afriki_haqq]

So there is no problem when Salafis out there smash Deobandis, Asharis, Sufis, Madhabis, etc etc..? They smash and make wholsesale takfir of more then 90% of the Ummah...

i dont think the salafi community has changed much, if anything, its the barelwis and deobandis who have had to adapt and change and leave their shirk and innovations behind and leave their backwards cultural practices and stop importanting non english speaking imams from pakistan over to the UK. THe young barelwis i know in sheffield say we need to follow the qur'an and sunnah and reject soem of teh backwards rubbish the barelwis in pakistan like to engage in. If you dont like what im saying then stop smashing salafis because how you feel when you read my posts are how I feel when you lot start smashing salafis. Although I follow salafi aqeedah i try to avoid fitnah with my brothers here and try to discuss issues taht I feel I get some beenfit from but the anti salafi thread every few threads really tick me off and it seems to me that laymen on here seem to attack salafis far more than your superiors in the deobandi establishment and other moderate sufi scholars, who rarely smash salafis or talk about divisions.

your superiors have signed an agreemnt and people might want to respect it:

http://muslimmatters.org/2007/09/22/...d-cooperation/

I would be very pleased to know what exactly is "Salafi Aqeedah" and how is it different from the Aqeedah of the rest of the Muslims...

[maneatinglizard]

So there is no problem when Salafis out there smash Deobandis, Asharis, Sufis, Madhabis, etc etc..? They smash and make wholsesale takfir of more then 90% of the Ummah...





I would be very pleased to know what exactly is "Salafi Aqeedah" and how is it different from the Aqeedah of the rest of the Muslims...

Salafi Aqeedah is far more literalist than the Aqeeda of the rest of the Muslims.

It ranges from simple opposition to ta'weel and kalam, to full-on anthropomorphism.

[maneatinglizard]

Tell me, exactly, what shirk and innovations do Deobandis engage in? I would really love to know.

Don't kid yourself, it was salafis who started all of this hostility. We didn't even know what salafis were, until they started popping up in the masajid, going up to brothers after salah, and "correcting" them. Telling them their prayer was wrong, and you need to pray the correct way, which according to them is with your hands up on your throat and your legs spread 4 feet apart, looking like a circus act. I have never seen a Hanafi, Shafii or Maliki go around "correcting" people like this. Only salafis. Then when we start to answer the salafis in kind, they start playing the victim. It's ludicrous.

I would really like to know, do you ever go on salafi forums and tell them to stop bashing hanafis and asharis?

I'll respect that "agreement" when Yasir Qadhi publicly repents and retracts his labeling of Shaykh Muhammad ibn `Alawi al-Maliki as a mushrik.

Didn't he already retract that saying?

I thought I remembered him going back on that claim.

[AbuFatimah]

Tell me, exactly, what shirk and innovations do Deobandis engage in? I would really love to know.

Don't kid yourself, it was salafis who started all of this hostility. We didn't even know what salafis were, until they started popping up in the masajid, going up to brothers after salah, and "correcting" them. Telling them their prayer was wrong, and you need to pray the correct way, which according to them is with your hands up on your throat and your legs spread 4 feet apart, looking like a circus act. I have never seen a Hanafi, Shafii or Maliki go around "correcting" people like this. Only salafis. Then when we start to answer the salafis in kind, they start playing the victim. It's ludicrous.

I would really like to know, do you ever go on salafi forums and tell them to stop bashing hanafis and asharis?

I'll respect that "agreement" when Yasir Qadhi publicly repents and retracts his labeling of Shaykh Muhammad ibn `Alawi al-Maliki as a mushrik.

ive been attacked by hanafis many times from rafa al yadain. and not wiping my face when making dua or raising my hands. The other day i went to see my brotehrs fisabililah and when they made dua and raised their hands i didnt raise my hands and one of them actually nudge the other one and pointed at me and smirked while their shaikh was in teh middle of dua. Dont think its all one way. Thehre is a lot of salafi smashing here. The people i learn from, al maghrib institute, al kawthar, mercy mission, iera, sabeel etc, never even mention deobandis let alone attack them. Go on the al maghrib forum and see how many times deobandis are mentioned. Or check teh alkawthar forums:

http://forums.alkauthar.org/

http://forums.almaghrib.org/

show me one place where you are attacked on these forums. The reason is because al maghrib and al kawthar are only ever speaking good of the deobandis and calling for unity and telling us to not go correcting peoples salah and arguing and things. This is what al maghrib and al kawthar is busy teaching their students and supporters. Here is what shaikh tawfique choudry is busy teaching his 10,000 audience in london at the last conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SEu_iaLDkxo

This is a real shaykh, may Allah preserve him. When I see you guys spend all your time smashing salafis I just feel less inclined to have anythjing to do with deobandis when I have the perfectly good option of sticking with mercy mission alone. Salafis and deobandis will be a lot more powerful together and so im always still hopeful of cooperation but you guys sometimes just make me think leave you guys alone to complain and back bite and stick with the brothers i see who are busying themselves with khair.

and there was so much cultural nonsense that the indopak community brought with them when they came here that its unbelievable, forced marriages, women beating, gomgal shareef, ibn arabi, and the list goes on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=897R48IHF6Y

thanks but no thanks. I think I will continue in thanking the salafis, i dont think i would have even become muslim if i saw these nutters when i set foot in the mosque. im greatful taht salafis have demolished blind following and caused the ummah to actually contemtplate on what theya re following and feel they ahve done a great service to islam given the mess the indopak community was in. Now the deobandis and barelwis are a lot less jaahil alhamdulillah and as a rsult, know some of their practices are pure stupidity and are coming closer to the sunnah so i hope for unity rather than fruitless debate but if people just want to keep smashing salafis then i think ill stcik with people whom i see as people of action ratehr than people of ghiba.

And yes if i hear a salafi start attacking others i will tell him not to and will tell him to focus on himself andfamily and benefitting islam, as Allah as my witness even my own wife I am constantly educating on not talking about innovators and focusing on her own faults and sins

[AbuFatimah]

So there is no problem when Salafis out there smash Deobandis, Asharis, Sufis, Madhabis, etc etc..? They smash and make wholsesale takfir of more then 90% of the Ummah...





I would be very pleased to know what exactly is "Salafi Aqeedah" and how is it different from the Aqeedah of the rest of the Muslims...

there is an issue with salafis smashing deobandis but the brothers from mercy mission and al maghrib taht I usually chill with will literally walk away from the discussion ifg i start talking about deobandis and they are really against attacking deobandis.

And dont talk about salafis vs the rest of the muslims like the salafis are the whacky group of the ummah, if you think salafis are strange compared to barelwis and shia and ahmadis and naqshbandi haqqanis then im in the wrong forum.

it seems kufr and shirk isnt a big deal these days compared to not rigidly following the fiqh oppinions of your country of origin which seems to be the cardinal sin of islam these days

[NNoor]

Didn't he already retract that saying?

I thought I remembered him going back on that claim.

No, I think what he said was that he regretted making the claim public.