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Thread: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

  1. #11
    Senior Member Maripat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Maripat View Post
    A teacher of mine read the Urdu translation of the book. That is how yours truly came to know about it.
    Then the book has some New Delhi connection - actually the author has.
    Then the author talked about some Mira.
    Oh Mira is name that is found amongst Muslims also.
    But then this article popped up in the search.
    So we are talking about Mira of Nair type.
    Sigh!
    Mira Nair is a film maker from India. She is quite successful in her career. Nair is a common title in two distant states of India - Kerala and Punjab. She is from Punjab. Author Mahmood Mamdani is married to her and they have a son called Zohran. Author talks about several continents and countries in the acknowledgements. New Delhi is on the circuit. So we have a person who has intimate knowledge of India, US and several African countries - not a mere academician in US with Muslim name with specialization in Africa. Worried about the world he leaves for his son and his friends - Indians, Africans, Americans, Hindus, Muslims, Christians.

    Book originates in a lecture given in the post 9/11 environment.

    From the initial remarks he is disposed against politicization of culture - he apparently takes Islam as a culture. He also talks about appearance of radical or political Islam. Being a critique of American view of Islam the book raises hopes but will the terminology being American makes one wary.


  2. #12
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Contents of the Book

    Introduction : Modernity and Violence 3

    Chapter One : Culture Talk : How not to Talk about Islam and Politics 17

    Chapter Two : The Cold War After Indochina 63

    Chapter Three : Afghanistan : The High Point in Cold War 119

    Chapter Four : From Proxy war to Open Aggression 178

    Conclusion : Beyond Impunity and Punishment 229


  3. #13
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Contents of the Book

    Introduction : Modernity and Violence 3

    The Modern State and Political Violence 4
    The Native's Violence 8
    9/11 11
    Good Muslim, Bad Muslim 15


    Chapter One : Culture Talk : How not to Talk about Islam and Politics 17

    Two Versions of Culture Talk 20
    Modernity and Politicization of Culture 27
    Modernity, Fundamentalism and Political Islam 36
    Christian Fundam,entalism and Political Christianity 38
    Islamic Reformism and Political Islam 45


    Chapter Two : The Cold War After Indochina 63

    Financing Proxy Wars 66
    Proxy Wars and Clark Amendments 69
    Embracing Mercenaries in Congo 70
    The Angolan Disaster 77
    The Clarke Amendment 81
    Proxy Wars and Safari Club 84
    South Africa 87
    Renamo : Africa's Genuine Terrorist Movement 89
    The Constructive Engagement 92
    The United State and Low Intensity Conflict
    Central America : Embracing Terror Openly
    Cocaine, Contras and the CIA 104
    Iran Contra Scandal 109


    Chapter Three : Afghanistan : The High Point in Cold War 119

    Financing the Jihad Through Drug Trade 140
    Bankers of the Jihad 146
    Cost to Pakistan 149
    Outcome : Taliban 153
    Cost to the Muslim World 163
    Algeria 164
    Egypt 167
    The Cold War and Political Islam 170
    Hizbullah 171
    Iran 173


    Chapter Four : From Proxy war to Open Aggression 178

    Iraq : Collective Punishment in War and Peace 180
    Dispensing with Rule of Law Internationally 202
    Israeli Power and Local Impunity 211
    The Settler and the Suicide Bomber 219

    Conclusion : Beyond Impunity and Punishment 229

    Privatizing Terror During the Late Cold War 231
    Cost to the United States 233
    The Way Out 239
    America and Israel : The Heart of Matter 240
    Historical Responsibility 249
    Last edited by Maripat; 04-09-2012 at 06:54 AM.


  4. #14
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Why am I not going ahead with the book?
    Because reading a book might put you in a mindset that is undesirable.
    And unless we read it we shall not know whether it is good or bad.
    But haven't the reviews been very good?
    Yes but these review come from a community that is not necessarily Muslim or Islamic.
    We still have to make an entry into this arena - not an easy task if you insist on maintaining your affinity with Allah (SWT) and his Messenger (PBUH).

    Let us consider an example of how a book can put you in an undesirable state of mind.

    The book is the novel called Dubai by an author called Leon Uris.

    Have you read any of those novels in which an American protagonist single handedly takes on the Russian evil doers? That was the pet enemy for quite some time. In this novel the Russians are replaced by Indians and the Muslims from the Gulf. Even in the cold war period this hideous book explored the next phase of a western adventurer. Now when you read a book you put yourself in the shoes of the protagonist. Now think of reading a thick book in which the Muslims as well as Indians get the worse. As a result the book pushes you into a frame of mind in which you are for the western protagonist, wishing him good and wishing Indians and the Muslims bad.

    Now this is not a hypothetical thing stuck in the fictitious world. We have seen one prominent example where an Arab officer in US cracked because he was supposed to motivate the US troops to go and kill those Arabs.

    Coming back to Good, Muslim, Bad Muslim - true that Mahmood Mamdani is not a western author writing about east but in modern times infested by Rushdies and Hirsi Alis one can never be too careful. Far too many people have fallen into Macaulian mindset from the east.

    And those who have come late - Macaulay was a British bureaucrat who aimed at such education for undivided India that will produce those eastern intellectual who were Indian by their skin colour but western by thought. In short coolies doing the job for the British. British have been sent home but too many coolies have been doing their job for whom India and Indian are backward and the west is sophisticated and desirable and preferable.

    This book was recommended to yours truly by a leftist person triggering the fear that the author himself might be one.

    But what ever we have read of the book itself gives enough positive signal that readers might give this book a try. Particularly the turn of the phrase is excellent. If there are any lapses we shall talk of them as and when we come to them.

    Q: Why such a long preamble before reviewing a book that is merely 260 pages long, excluding the very useful notes?
    A: That is the crux of the matter. There are two reasons. (1) An undesirable state of mind is as difficult to come out of as the process of purification of the self. In fact later is required to get rid of negative attitudes engendered by western philosophy. (2) The author speaks as an insider from the western perspective. Though not a mover or shaker but relevant enough in that society which has sent much of the Muslim world into a state of turmoil.

    Page 3

    Twentieth century was most violent of history but this violence does not outrage us for we see violence as a necessary element of historical process. This is termed political violence and is termed midwife of history.

    Only that violence is disliked by us that is senseless and not justified by progress. This is of two type. In premodern society and modern society. In premodern society it was either at world scale, called clash of civilizations or the local scale. Local means something that has not entered west. This latter one is either in South Asia and is called communal violence or in Africa in which case it is termed ethnic violence.

    Then there is senseless violence in modern society. It is discussed in moral framework by the civilized world.

    Remark : These classifications have not been made very robust by the author - at least to the writer of these lines they do not seem to be. Perhaps it is not possible. Similar problem was faced by Edward Said and he said that by orientalism he meant various things. Perhaps that is all that could be done in that case and in the present case too he could adopt the same attitude.

    Q: Why is there so much of circumlocution?


  5. #15
    Senior Member Maripat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Wikipedia page on 1973 Arab-Israel War has a caption under Golda Meir photo:
    Upon learning of the impending attack, Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir made the controversial decision not to launch a pre-emptive strike.
    Controversial? Controversial from whose point of view?
    Obviously from Israeli point of view.
    This is one typical manifestation of modern media discourse and media conditioning.
    Israeli point of view is the point of view. Israeli concern is the concern.

    Mahmood Mamdani points out that in US it is absolutely impractical to criticize Israel. People get very alert about it - lest they be termed anti-Semitic. Israel is one country that stands in violation of every single UN resolution that concerns but yet you can say nothing against it.

    So much so about a country of free speech.

    Clearly obscene US military power combined with similar economic might has created disconnection with reality and a balloon. The number of thinkers who have tried to point this is really miniscule.


  6. #16
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    oh is that so...................


  7. #17
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Maripat View Post
    Wikipedia page on 1973 Arab-Israel War has a caption under Golda Meir photo:

    Controversial? Controversial from whose point of view?
    Obviously from Israeli point of view.
    This is one typical manifestation of modern media discourse and media conditioning.
    Israeli point of view is the point of view. Israeli concern is the concern.

    Mahmood Mamdani points out that in US it is absolutely impractical to criticize Israel. People get very alert about it - lest they be termed anti-Semitic. Israel is one country that stands in violation of every single UN resolution that concerns but yet you can say nothing against it.

    So much so about a country of free speech.

    Clearly obscene US military power combined with similar economic might has created disconnection with reality and a balloon. The number of thinkers who have tried to point this is really miniscule.
    Wikipedia is well on the road to the virulent anti-Islam position of Wiki-Islam.

    we are being attacked by a mob of ignorant disbelievers, the Yuj and Majuj of the internet

    each one sitting behind their keyboards with their sticky unwashed fingers

    typing out the propaganda that fills their sticky unwashed brains


  8. #18
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    I just ordered the book "Good Muslim, Bad Muslim"

    I'll post a review after I finish reading it.


  9. #19
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    (1) In first few pages the book is like a work of art - every sentence is exquisitely crafted linguistically and containing significant insight.
    (2) It seems author must have been a person of Marxist leanings - in some parts the book becomes very socialist though that is not the overwhelming or a recurring theme.
    (3) At a few places there are some heavy political details - rather heavy to navigate for few pages.
    This again is not the overwhelming character nor recurring one.
    (4) Like Orientalism by Edward W. Said the argument looks like not merely convincing but conclusive for yours truly has not come across any substantial critique of the thesis.
    (5) Navigation of the argument is not as excruciating as in case of Orientalism by Edward Said - latter had long back paved the way for present author.
    (6) Navigation of the argument is more excruciating than in case of Orientalism by Edward Said for this time we are not talking about mere intellectual attitudes but actions that involve physical misery.


  10. #20
    Senior Member Maripat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Muslim, Bad Muslim

    The Reluctant Fundamentalist is a novel by Muhsin Hamid.
    And fiction is fiction.
    Time is a precious blessing of Allah (SWT) and if we value it then it is not spent in reading fiction.
    Life in its reality is difficult enough and adventurous enough. And part of the deal of life is that we satisfy ourselves with whatever allowed entertainment Allah (SWT) has granted us in His infinite wisdom.
    And hence we bring this novel into discourse only because it is in public talk.
    As per the publication details it is the story of a young and bright Muslim professional thrown into turmoil by the events by now known as 9/11.

    At a cafe table in Lahore, a Pakistani man converses with a stranger. As dusk deepens to dark, he begins the tale that has brought him to this fateful meeting...Among the brightest and best of his graduating class at Princeton, Changez is snapped up by an elite firm and thrives on New York and the intensity of his work. And his infatuation with fragile Erica promises entree into Manhattan society on the exalted footing his own family once held back in Lahore. For a time, it seems as though nothing will stand in the way of Changez's meteoric rise to personal and professional success: the fulfillment of the immigrant's dream. But in the wake of September 11, he finds his position in the city he loves suddenly overturned, and his budding relationship with Erica eclipsed by the reawakened ghosts of her past. And Changez's own identity is in seismic shift as well, unearthing allegiances more fundamental than money, power, and perhaps even love.
    The book has garnered 201 reviews at Amazon. This kind of attention is reserved for the top of list books.

    Then there is a film on the same book by Mira Nair - wife of Professor Mahmood Mamdani, author of the book we are discussing in this thread. She makes a reference to the experience of her family in New York immediately after the 9/11 events. That is why feel like talking about the film.

    And then one more thing needs clarification. Yours truly is not promoting this or any other film. This, that is film watching, has not been made desirable by our elders and scholars. This sort of makes it a balancing act for us to talk about life around us without participating in it. But that is only partly true. The things that Islam forbids are really small.

    Here is a quote from above BBC report.
    The cast admit the film could make uncomfortable viewing for western audiences.
    I suppose the west has got to prepare itself to hear the other side.

    We learn some more background here.
    In Nair's version of The Reluctant Fundamentalist, an American journalist, played by Liev Schreiber, goes to interview Changez Khan, a university professor in Lahore suspected of stirring up anti-western sentiment.
    Does it mean that sitting in their homes people are not supposed to have those thoughts that do not find approval of a big boss called west? One always imagine worst case scenarios but the problem of drawing a line still remains there.

    And this is what makes her efforts a bold initiative. It is not easy to hold mirror to the powerful - this is a truth for all times. It is true for current west - the society enamored with freedom of speech. You have that chimera called freedom to speak your mind as long as you do not step on western toes. Post that all rules and decency and morality evaporates.

    That the task is not easy for Nair is clear from the quote:
    "I think that what we show is that the world is complicated. I am as much steeped in the US as the Indian subcontinent and we portray the USA with a lot of intimacy, knowledge and a certain degree of love, so I hope there's balance in it.
    According to Guardian:
    This is bold and muscular storytelling with a plausible performance from Riz Ahmed in the lead role – though there is something flabby and evasive in the inevitable equivalence it winds up proposing between Islamic fundamentalism and aggressive American capitalism.
    Flabby and evasive. May be. But that is not the point. The point is whether the US has been trying to impose its values on the rest of the world. That Europe does not complain about it is not an argument. The world moved from European physical imperialism to American economic imperialism in last century. Formation of European Union should be taken as a tribute to that. European dove tailing of US is a pathetic phenomenon in itself and thus leaves us out with only two opinions. US opinion and the rest. Out of this neither Japan nor China are American fans. In fact India is the only semi-admirer that US has been left with.


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