The Meaning of Abyad (White) To the Arabs

[xs11ax]

i do not have the knowledge to dissect the proofs that Tee has given in the form of quotes from the past scholars.

can someone please explain to me if the proofs that he has presented from the past scholars uphold his views or not.

if it does not then can someone please explain to me in simple laymen terms why it does not.

please hold back your own rhetoric and just give me the explanation as is.

i appreciate your help.

[Tee]

I just discussed this topic with an Alim here .. says that to believe in the Risalat of our Prophet with his zaahiri and baatni attributes constitues iman..
and there exists no seerat of any Prophet described in such depth as our Prophet .. said regarding other Ambiya it is wajib on us to have faith in them and their teachings as mentioned in Qur'an and hadith.. but not wajib to delve in their physical appearence..

but regarding our Prophet the matter is as clear as day and night.. the narrations reached are numerous and authentic to as to clear any doubt on his appearence.. from his colour.. to the shape of his eye brows.. nose.. eye lashes.. May our lives be sacrificed for his honour..

so we can Alhamdulillah spot any thief like the khabees ghulam ahmed qadiani.. who initially played with words saying he was a prophet without shariah..and so on to finally show his real colours...and reach Hell..

dear brothers and sisters.. this is a time of fitnah.. be very cautious.. the agents of dajjal shall show up time and again.. and they begin initially by playing with words and next ur aqaid and iman..

so to deny any attribute of our beloved Nabi either physical or spiritual is Kufr by consensus.. this is what i learnt.. the Maulana has asked for some time so that he can get us the fatawa.. shall wait till then..

this fool.. says he agrees with abyad and asmar and goes on to give his own taweel.. Who has authorized him to do so..? what made him an authority to say who looks like an Arab and who doesnt..? W.D Muhammed..? what sanad does he have...?

and at the end his pictures of abyad and asmar turns to be of the African race..

(Note. - I have no ill feeling or bias against African / black / dark skinned people.. this i tell u from the bottom of my heart)

Wa Sallallahu ala khairi khalqihi Sayyidina Muhammadin wa aalihi wasahbihi wa baarik wasallim..

wa assalam..

You said:

at the end his pictures of abyad and asmar turns to be of the African race..

I told you that Saad ibn Abi Waqqas, the maternal uncle of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) was described as very dark complexioned, flat-nosed, and kinky-haired. Are you saying that the Prophet's uncle belonged to the "African race"? Explain. Don't just talk. Explain with proofs. Am I asking too much of you?

[Tee]

I just discussed this topic with an Alim here .. says that to believe in the Risalat of our Prophet with his zaahiri and baatni attributes constitues iman..
and there exists no seerat of any Prophet described in such depth as our Prophet .. said regarding other Ambiya it is wajib on us to have faith in them and their teachings as mentioned in Qur'an and hadith.. but not wajib to delve in their physical appearence..

but regarding our Prophet the matter is as clear as day and night.. the narrations reached are numerous and authentic to as to clear any doubt on his appearence.. from his colour.. to the shape of his eye brows.. nose.. eye lashes.. May our lives be sacrificed for his honour..

so we can Alhamdulillah spot any thief like the khabees ghulam ahmed qadiani.. who initially played with words saying he was a prophet without shariah..and so on to finally show his real colours...and reach Hell..

dear brothers and sisters.. this is a time of fitnah.. be very cautious.. the agents of dajjal shall show up time and again.. and they begin initially by playing with words and next ur aqaid and iman..

so to deny any attribute of our beloved Nabi either physical or spiritual is Kufr by consensus.. this is what i learnt.. the Maulana has asked for some time so that he can get us the fatawa.. shall wait till then..

this fool.. says he agrees with abyad and asmar and goes on to give his own taweel.. Who has authorized him to do so..? what made him an authority to say who looks like an Arab and who doesnt..? W.D Muhammed..? what sanad does he have...?

and at the end his pictures of abyad and asmar turns to be of the African race..

(Note. - I have no ill feeling or bias against African / black / dark skinned people.. this i tell u from the bottom of my heart)

Wa Sallallahu ala khairi khalqihi Sayyidina Muhammadin wa aalihi wasahbihi wa baarik wasallim..

wa assalam..

You said:

but regarding our Prophet**the matter is as clear as day and night.

What matter is as clear as day and night? Since everything is so clear to you, why don't you tell everyone here what the Arabs of the past meant by abyad (white). Also tell everyone here what you think about the definition of abyad (white) given by the great Imams and scholars that I mentioned in my article. What do you think about Imam Al-Dhahabi's definition of abyad (white)? What do you think about Imam Al-Tha'alabi's definition of abyad (white)? What do you think about Imam Al-Minhaaji Al-Asyouti's definition of abyad (white)? What do you think about Imam Al-Azhari's definition of abyad (white)? Or do you think that they are all "fools"? You probably don't even know who they are. I suggest you sit there and do some research into who these great scholars are before you speak. That's what I suggest that you do.

[Abbe]

I don't agree with Tee's position, but I still don't understand why you deem it to be kufr.

Do you believe that having dark skin is a defect?

This is what al-Bajuri writes in his commentary to the Shama'il:

قال أئمتنا يكفر من قال كان النبي أسود لأن وصفه بغير صفته في قوة نفيه فيكون تكذيبا به ومنه يؤخذ أن كل صفة علم ثبوتها له بالتواتر كان نفيها كفرا للعلة المذكورة

It's kufr, not because white is better, but because it entails a negation of tawatur. And as you can see this is true when it comes to all his attributes, salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam, i.e. not only color but other attributes as well.

[Tee]

I just discussed this topic with an Alim here .. says that to believe in the Risalat of our Prophet with his zaahiri and baatni attributes constitues iman..
and there exists no seerat of any Prophet described in such depth as our Prophet .. said regarding other Ambiya it is wajib on us to have faith in them and their teachings as mentioned in Qur'an and hadith.. but not wajib to delve in their physical appearence..

but regarding our Prophet the matter is as clear as day and night.. the narrations reached are numerous and authentic to as to clear any doubt on his appearence.. from his colour.. to the shape of his eye brows.. nose.. eye lashes.. May our lives be sacrificed for his honour..

so we can Alhamdulillah spot any thief like the khabees ghulam ahmed qadiani.. who initially played with words saying he was a prophet without shariah..and so on to finally show his real colours...and reach Hell..

dear brothers and sisters.. this is a time of fitnah.. be very cautious.. the agents of dajjal shall show up time and again.. and they begin initially by playing with words and next ur aqaid and iman..

so to deny any attribute of our beloved Nabi either physical or spiritual is Kufr by consensus.. this is what i learnt.. the Maulana has asked for some time so that he can get us the fatawa.. shall wait till then..

this fool.. says he agrees with abyad and asmar and goes on to give his own taweel.. Who has authorized him to do so..? what made him an authority to say who looks like an Arab and who doesnt..? W.D Muhammed..? what sanad does he have...?

and at the end his pictures of abyad and asmar turns to be of the African race..

(Note. - I have no ill feeling or bias against African / black / dark skinned people.. this i tell u from the bottom of my heart)

Wa Sallallahu ala khairi khalqihi Sayyidina Muhammadin wa aalihi wasahbihi wa baarik wasallim..

wa assalam..

You said:

what made him an authority to say who looks like an Arab and who doesnt..?

Ibn Sayyidah said:

فهم العرب، وألوانهم الأدمة والسمرة والسواد.

"They are the Arabs, and their (the Arabs') complexions are adam (very dark-skinned), asmar, and black."

If you don't know who Ibn Sayyidah is, look him up.

[Abbe]

I haven't read the whole thread or all arguments, but from a quick look a lot of your arguments have been refuted (or at least dealt with) here:

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...n-prophet.html

[London786]

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/al...pt4ch1sec1.htm

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun, said, "Anyone who says that the Prophet was black should be killed."

[Tee]

I haven't read the whole thread or all arguments, but from a quick look a lot of your arguments have been refuted (or at least dealt with) here:

My arguments haven't been refuted nor have they been dealt with. Though some of my comments seem to have been deleted, you can read through this

http://www.islamdunktv.com/2012/01/r...omplexion.html

and show me where you feel my argument was refuted or dealt with. My argument hasn't been refuted or dealt with. Instead, it has been avoided - as usual.

[dr76]

My arguments haven't been refuted nor have they been dealt with. Though some of my comments seem to have been deleted, you can read through this

http://www.islamdunktv.com/2012/01/r...omplexion.html

and show me where you feel my argument was refuted or dealt with. My argument hasn't been refuted or dealt with. Instead, it has been avoided - as usual.

Tariq Berry u have been BUSTED in this link http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/20...n-prophet.html.. so need not appear here again and again like a bootlegger to sell ur khabees ideology.. also tell Wesley Muhammed what Allah says about kizzab..

there is still time.. do taubah.. and enter Islam.. not NOI..

[Abbe]

My arguments haven't been refuted nor have they been dealt with. Though some of my comments seem to have been deleted, you can read through this

http://www.islamdunktv.com/2012/01/r...omplexion.html

and show me where you feel my argument was refuted or dealt with. My argument hasn't been refuted or dealt with. Instead, it has been avoided - as usual.

Like I said earlier I haven't had the opportunity to read everything through, but I would appreciate if you could explain how the following quotations can be used as an evidence for your claim:

Tha'alab, the Arabic language scholar of the 9th century AD said:

"The Arabs don't say that a man is abyad (white) because of a abyad (white) complexion. Abyad (White) to the Arabs means that a person is pure, without any faults.”

العرب لا تقول : رجل أبيض من بياض اللون إنما الأبيض عندهم الطاهر النقي من العيوب

Al-Azhari, the well-known Arabic language scholar who was born in 895 A.D., said:

“When the Arabs described a person as abyad (white), it meant that the person had a clean reputation and unblemished honor.”

إذا قالت العرب فلان أبيض، وفلانة بيضاء، فالمعنى نقاء العرض من الدنس والعيوب

“…They don’t mean an abyad (white) complexion, but they mean to praise the person for his/her noble nature, clean reputation, and unblemished honor. And when they said he/she had an abyad (white) face, they meant that he/she had a clean complexion without blotches and ugly dark spots.”

لا يريدون به بياض اللون، ولكنهم يريدون المدح بالكرم، ونقاء العرض من العيوب. وإذا قالوا: فلان أبيض الوجه، وفلانة بيضاء الوجه، أرادوا نقاء اللون من الكلف والسواد الشائن

If I understand you correctly this would be an argument in your favour, i.e. when it's said that the Prophet salla Allahu aleyhi wa sallam was abyad they didn't mean white but that he was generous etc. This is a really weak argument, or am I missing something here.

Don't get me wrong I want to understand this issue, but please try to stick to one argument at the time (and don't flood me with other arguments) and then we move on to the next one.