The Meaning of Abyad (White) To the Arabs

**Tee** · 16-02-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

Kufr simply means denial.
Denial of any thing real can be characterized as kufr.
If some asserts that Barack Obama is Indian by race then the person is clearly denying reality.
And just because someone says that I am Indian by race then that person does not become racial.
Racism is operative when people hate others just because of his race.
To assert that beloved Prophet (PBUH) was from Arab race does not constitute racism.
To assert that beloved Prophet (PBUH) was from a race other than Arab is denial of reality.
Brother Tee has been putting lots of effort in trying to obfuscate the truth about Prophet(PBUH)'s race.
It is not spreading knowledge - it is obfuscation of truth and reality.
He should desist from this.

It seems to me that YOU are the one who is in denial of the truth. I have just shown you what the reliable scholars of the past said that abyad means to the Arabs and you have turned a blind eye to all of this truth that they have said. You are denying reality and refusing to accept the truth. Is what you are doing considered kufr - according to your definition?

**Tee** · 16-02-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by mospike

i read the first post and was extremely interested and then........ it all fell apart..

Tee my brother, if you wanted to prove a point on this issue then you don’t go about it in the way you have. Multiple simultaneous posting on such deep issues does not allow the reader time to digest any of the info that you are trying to relay. And then I see that you have a hidden agenda... SAD,, this is not the purpose of ilm

You don't have to read it all at once. You can read it at your own pace and as many times as it takes for you to understand it. You can also ask questions as you read if there are things that aren't clear to you.

What sort of "hidden agenda" do you think that I have. I think that everything I said is clear and I clearly stated that my reason for writing about this is to correct people's misunderstanding about the meaning of abyad (white) to the Arabs. Do you see a problem with correcting people's misunderstanding about an issue? Do you see a problem with showing the correct meaning of words used to describe the Prophet (SAWS)? Do you see a problem with spreading knowledge? If you think that this isn't knowledge, explain how you came to that conclusion. And please explain what sort of "hidden agenda" you think I have.

**nur11** · 16-02-2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

Kufr simply means denial.
Denial of any thing real can be characterized as kufr.
If some asserts that Barack Obama is Indian by race then the person is clearly denying reality.
And just because someone says that I am Indian by race then that person does not become racial.
Racism is operative when people hate others just because of his race.
To assert that beloved Prophet (PBUH) was from Arab race does not constitute racism.

To assert that beloved Prophet (PBUH) was from a race other than Arab is denial of reality.
Brother Tee has been putting lots of effort in trying to obfuscate the truth about Prophet(PBUH)'s race.
It is not spreading knowledge - it is obfuscation of truth and reality.
He should desist from this.

He is not saying the Prophet[saws] wasn't a Arab...he is saying that the Prophet[saws] and the early arabs wasn't white.Why do some Muslims have such a problem with that???

**Maripat** · 16-02-2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Tee

It seems to me that YOU are the one who is in denial of the truth. I have just shown you what the reliable scholars of the past said that abyad means to the Arabs and you have turned a blind eye to all of this truth that they have said. You are denying reality and refusing to accept the truth. Is what you are doing considered kufr - according to your definition?

I suppose both of us can not be write.
I would like to be judged in the company of our scholars and not you Mr Berry.
Please know it that for me you still have not reached Islam and it is my duty as Muslim to warn you about your status. I have hereby done my duty.
And just in case you want to reciprocate in kind then you can hold it back - I keep worrying about me day and night.
And I would not like you to keep muddying the waters here. Since you are senior member here at SF I shall make this my final view about your position - you are trying to obfuscate the truth, that is Islam.

**Tee** · 16-02-2012, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

I suppose both of us can not be write.
I would like to be judged in the company of our scholars and not you Mr Berry.
Please know it that for me you still have not reached Islam and it is my duty as Muslim to warn you about your status. I have hereby done my duty.
And just in case you want to reciprocate in kind then you can hold it back - I keep worrying about me day and night.
And I would not like you to keep muddying the waters here. Since you are senior member here at SF I shall make this my final view about your position - you are trying to obfuscate the truth, that is Islam.

Please know it that for me you still have not reached Islam and it is my duty as Muslim to warn you about your status.

And who are you to feel that you can determine who has reached Islam and who hasn't and who are you to feel that you can determine my status. What makes you think you can do that? Who are you?

you are trying to obfuscate the truth

What truth am I trying to obfuscate in your view? Tell us about this truth. What is the truth in your view? And do you consider what was said by the scholars I quoted in my article lies? You've heard what the scholars of the past have said the truth is. Now tell us what you think the truth is.

**Muhammad_786** · 16-02-2012, 01:28 PM

@ Tee

Peace,

Please answer the following 2 questions in order to clear away any misconceptions the members of this forum (the majority who are Ahle Sunnah) may have in regards to your posts:

1) Are you or were you affiliated to NOI? (Bear in mind that ascribing to the ideologies of NOI is kufr by consensus.)

2) Was Nabi Muhammad (SAW) a 'black' man (like in African descent sense), nauzu-billah or an arab?

**xs11ax** · 16-02-2012, 01:29 PM

if the 'real' arabs were black then where did the 'fake' non-black arabs come from and what time in history did they arrive?

surely if this happened then there has to historical accounts that directly or indirectly refer to this.

**godilali** · 16-02-2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by dr76

He wants to prove that the Mercy of both worlds our beloved Prophet

was 'Black' nauzu billah min zaalik.. which is clear kufr..
hez among those NOI deviants.. ignore him anyway.. hez confused with colors since very long..

wa assalam..

Care to enlighten us as to why it is kufr?

**Tee** · 16-02-2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Muhammad_786

@ Tee

Peace,

Please answer the following 2 questions in order to clear away any misconceptions the members of this forum (the majority who are Ahle Sunnah) may have in regards to your posts:

1) Are you or were you affiliated to NOI? (Bear in mind that ascribing to the ideologies of NOI is kufr by consensus.)

2) Was Nabi Muhammad (SAW) a 'black' man (like in African descent sense) or an arab?

1) Are you or were you affiliated to NOI? (Bear in mind that ascribing to the ideologies of NOI is kufr by consensus.)

No, I'm NOT and I NEVER have been nor do I agree with their ideologies.

2) Was Nabi Muhammad (SAW) a 'black' man (like in African descent sense) or an arab?

No, he (SAWS) wasn't a black-skinned man and I never said that he was black-skinned. This man is black-skinned:

http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/images/blksudanman.jpg

Nor was he an "African". He (SAWS) was an Arab and he was described as abyad (white) and he was described as asmar. And the purpose of my article is to explain the TRUE MEANING of abyad to the Arabs of the past and to show that it doesn't mean what people think it means. And by the way, this man isn't black-skinned either:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...mage/image.jpg

Nor are these men:

http://dc10.arabsh.com/i/01871/ftz6y7u3jlyw.jpg

**xs11ax** · 16-02-2012, 01:54 PM

today when a person is referred to as black, it does not entirely refer to his skin colour but also his features.

i am as 'black' as any black man but my features are south asian hence i am not referred to as being black.

so when you say that the Prophet

was black immediately it brings to mind a person who is 'black' in skin colour and 'black' in features.

from what i have read so far, in simple terms, are you trying to say that the Prophet

was darker in skin colour then the present day arabs who have a light complexion?

can you post a pic of what you think the latter day arabs looked like along with a pic of what todays arabs look like to make a comparison please.