The Meaning of Abyad (White) To the Arabs

[Tee]

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[Abbe]

I said earlier:



It's becoming clearer to me what Al-Tha'alabi meant. I've just realized that the planet Al-Zuhra (Venus) was named Al-Zuhra because of its luminous bayaad (its luminous abyad color or whiteness); it was named Al-Zuhra because of its radiance.

أما سبب تسميتة بالزهرة فبحسب ما جاء في لسان العرب: الزُّهره هي الحسن والبياض، زَهرَ زَهْراً والأَزْهَر أي الأبيض المستنير. والزُهْره: البياض النير. ومن هنا اسم كوكب الزهرة يعود إلى سطوع هذا الكوكب من الكره الأرضيه وذلك لانعكاس كميه كبيره من ضوء الشمس بسبب كثافة الغلاف الجوي الكبيره.
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%...87%D8%B1%D8%A9

Here are pictures of the planet Al-Zuhra (Venus):

Attachment 7036
Second from left

Attachment 7037

Here's a yellow moon:

Attachment 7038

Compare the color of the planet Al-Zuhra (Venus) and the yellow moon to the complexion of this man and notice that they are basically the same except for the fact that the Zuhra and yellow moon have a little more radiance than the complexion of the man:

Attachment 7039

This man is amazing. He's prepared to do anything to delude others. It's impossible to discuss with him since he is totally fanatic about his views and he is prepared to say anything and twist everything in order to be right. We will respond to his claims later in sha Allah, and I decided to not discuss with him any more here on this forum. But this post is so ridiculous and it functions as a good example of how he is prepared to manipulate texts and meanings. He claims that Venus is called azhar because it reminds of the colour abyad and to prove this he brought pictures of Venus.

The problem is that those pictures are seen through very strong binoculars. This is what the Arabs saw when they looked at Venus:
venus.jpg

So he is obviously wrong according to his own arguments. But as usual he will take everything back and twist it a little more and then come back and write more and more as usual.

[Tee]

This man is amazing. He's prepared to do anything to delude others. It's impossible to discuss with him since he is totally fanatic about his views and he is prepared to say anything and twist everything in order to be right. We will respond to his claims later in sha Allah, and I decided to not discuss with him any more here on this forum. But this post is so ridiculous and it functions as a good example of how he is prepared to manipulate texts and meanings. He claims that Venus is called azhar because it reminds of the colour abyad and to prove this he brought pictures of Venus.

The problem is that those pictures are seen through very strong binoculars. This is what the Arabs saw when they looked at Venus:
venus.jpg

So he is obviously wrong according to his own arguments. But as usual he will take everything back and twist it a little more and then come back and write more and more as usual.

It's clear that you have no knowledge of Arabic and are SERIOUSLY lacking in the ability to grasp things.

[Sulaiman84]

It's clear that you have no knowledge of Arabic and are SERIOUSLY lacking in the ability to grasp things.

Typing in CAPS doesn't make you right nor does it make your argument strong.

Come with a different approach.

[Tee]

I'm only trying to make some sense out of your saying that the Prophet (SAWS) was the color of the moon because what you say makes no sense at all. I said that his complexion being described as like the moon meant in radiance, not in color. But you said no. I now showed you that the planet Al-Zuhra (Venus) was named Al-Zuhra because of its radiance and I showed you that that means that azhar means radiance, not a color. You said no. My main purpose for mentioning Al-Zuhra (Venus) was to show you that azhar means radiance and not a color. I also observed that the color of a yellow moon is basically the same color as Al-Zuhra and suggested that perhaps that is a way for the description (like the moon) to mean the actual color of the moon, which is your idea. But you say no to that too. Therefore, I can assume that you insist that the Prophet (SAWS) was actually the color of this moon:

full_moon.jpg

Why don't you explain to everyone what you mean by this and post a picture of someone the color of this moon? And also comment on the silver man that I posted here http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-Arabs/page89 and tell everyone whether or not you are saying that the Prophet (SAWS) was silver complexioned because I said that the expression "like silver" is referring to brightness, but you said no. So explain.

[Tee]

he was quraysh go meet one and find out what they look like.

Here are some more:

http://www.hdrmut.net/vb/imgcache/2/78322alsh3er.jpeg

Read what was said about them:


"...But what is really strange is that there is a family like the Family of the Noble Fulaita who say that they are the descendants of Husain the son of Fulaita the son of the ruler of Mecca (a descendant of Ali ibn Abi Taalib) who died in 527 A.H. And from that time (since nine centuries ago) they still live in Mecca in Wadi Fatima. In other words, they never at any time immigrated to Africa, for example, and returned to Mecca. No. On the contrary, they are people of the Haram (Sacred Land), people of Wadi Fatima, Mecca from that time until now. And the strange thing is that the Noble Fulaita are the only tribe in the Hijaz that all members of the tribe have the physical characteristics of a tribe coming from the center of Africa. All of the members of this tribe have black skin, wide noses, and thick lips - except for a minority of them and even the minority of them who don't, you will find that they too have an appearance close to an African appearance, differing from the appearance of the other Ashraaf (descendants of the Prophet (SAWS)) of the Hijaz."

لكن ماهو مستغرب حقيقة أن تكون هناك أسرة مثل سادة فليتة وهم الذين يقولون بأنهم أبناء حسين بن فليتة ابن حاكم م الذي توفي 527 هـ وأنهم من ذلك التاريخ (منذ تسعة قرون) وهم مازالوا يسكنون مكة ووادي فاطمة أي أنهم لم يهاجروا في وقت من الأوقات إلى أفريقيا مثلا ثم قدموا بعد ذلك. لا وإنما هم أهل الحرم أهل مكة ووادي فاطمة منذ ذلك الزمان الى وقتنا المعاصر، والغريب أن سادة فليتة القبيلة الوحيدة في الحجاز (والتي قد تكون أمثولة في علم الأجناس البشرية) التي جميع أفرادها يحملون سمات وصفات القبائل القادمة من وسط أفريقيا فجميع هذه القبيلة من ذوي البشرة السوداء ذوي أنوف عريضة وشفتين غليظة إلا ماندر وحتى من ندر منهم تجده لا يبتعد كثيرا عن السمات والصفات الأفريقية، مخالفين بذلك سمات وصفات أشراف الحجاز الآخرون

What's really telling is the fact that these Shurafaa (descendants of the Prophet (SAWS)) are descendants of Musa Al-Jown (the Black) who was the brother of Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia. And they were both very pure blooded descendants of the Prophet (SAWS). If you don't know who they are, look for information about them and read about them.

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia had a brother named Musa Al-Jawn (the Black). Musa Al-Jawn was also very black-skinned. He was nicknamed Al-Jawn (the Black) because of his blackness. The Sharifs called Banu Al-Akhaidar, who are found in Oman, Saudi Arabia, and other places, are descended from Musa Al-Jawn.

http://www.savethetruearabs.proboard...splay&thread=4

[meelash]

Here are some more:



Read what was said about them:


"...But what is really strange is that there is a family like the Family of the Noble Fulaita who say that they are the descendants of Husain the son of Fulaita the son of the ruler of Mecca (a descendant of Ali ibn Abi Taalib) who died in 527 A.H. And from that time (since nine centuries ago) they still live in Mecca in Wadi Fatima. In other words, they never at any time immigrated to Africa, for example, and returned to Mecca. No. On the contrary, they are people of the Haram (Sacred Land), people of Wadi Fatima, Mecca from that time until now. And the strange thing is that the Noble Fulaita are the only tribe in the Hijaz that all members of the tribe have the physical characteristics of a tribe coming from the center of Africa. All of the members of this tribe have black skin, wide noses, and thick lips - except for a minority of them and even the minority of them who don't, you will find that they too have an appearance close to an African appearance, differing from the appearance of the other Ashraaf (descendants of the Prophet (SAWS)) of the Hijaz."

لكن ماهو مستغرب حقيقة أن تكون هناك أسرة مثل سادة فليتة وهم الذين يقولون بأنهم أبناء حسين بن فليتة ابن حاكم م الذي توفي 527 هـ وأنهم من ذلك التاريخ (منذ تسعة قرون) وهم مازالوا يسكنون مكة ووادي فاطمة أي أنهم لم يهاجروا في وقت من الأوقات إلى أفريقيا مثلا ثم قدموا بعد ذلك. لا وإنما هم أهل الحرم أهل مكة ووادي فاطمة منذ ذلك الزمان الى وقتنا المعاصر، والغريب أن سادة فليتة القبيلة الوحيدة في الحجاز (والتي قد تكون أمثولة في علم الأجناس البشرية) التي جميع أفرادها يحملون سمات وصفات القبائل القادمة من وسط أفريقيا فجميع هذه القبيلة من ذوي البشرة السوداء ذوي أنوف عريضة وشفتين غليظة إلا ماندر وحتى من ندر منهم تجده لا يبتعد كثيرا عن السمات والصفات الأفريقية، مخالفين بذلك سمات وصفات أشراف الحجاز الآخرون

What's really telling is the fact that these Shurafaa (descendants of the Prophet (SAWS)) are descendants of Musa Al-Jown (the Black) who was the brother of Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia. And they were both very pure blooded descendants of the Prophet (SAWS). If you don't know who they are, look for information about them and read about them.



http://www.savethetruearabs.proboard...splay&thread=4

Incredible how you can be so self deluded. Do you not see words like "strange," "only tribe," "differing from?" Do they get filtered by your colored sunglasses?

Musa Al-Jawn (the Black). Musa Al-Jawn was also very black-skinned. He was nicknamed Al-Jawn (the Black) because of his blackness. The Sharifs called Banu Al-Akhaidar, who are found in Oman, Saudi Arabia, and other places, are descended from Musa Al-Jawn.

.
The mans nickname was the black- meaning he stood out from everyone else. And yet you're bringing him as evidence of everyone else's blackness. ??? Ajeeb

[Tee]

Incredible how you can be so self deluded. Do you not see words like "strange," "only tribe," "differing from?" Do they get filtered by your colored sunglasses?

.
The mans nickname was the black- meaning he stood out from everyone else. And yet you're bringing him as evidence of everyone else's blackness. ??? Ajeeb

Are you insinuating that because they are the minority now that they are less pure then the majority now? What do you understand from these hadiths:

It is reported that the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) said, (In a dream) I saw myself following a herd of black sheep. Then a group of white sheep came (and mixed with the black sheep) until they (the white sheep) became so many that the black sheep could no longer be seen in the herd of sheep." Abu Bakr, the companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and the interpreter of dreams, said, "Oh Messenger of Allah. As for the black sheep, they are the Arabs. They will accept Islam and become many. The white sheep are the non-Arab Persians, etc. They will accept Islam and become so many that the Arabs will not be noticed amongst them." The Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) then said that an angel had interpreted the dream the same way.

عن عمر بن شرحبيل قال ‏"‏قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم ‏رأيتني أردفت غنم سود ثم أردفتها غنم بيض حتى ما ترى السود فيها فقال أبو بكر يا رسول الله أما الغنم السود فانها العرب يسلمون و يكثرون و الغنم البيض الأعاجم يسلمون حتى لا يرى العرب فيهم من كثرتهم فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم كذلك عبرها الملك سحرا‏"‏.

Zaid ibn Aslam related that the prophet (SAWS) saw a vision and told his companions about it. He said, "I saw a group of black sheep and a group of white sheep then mixed with the black sheep. I interpreted it to mean that the non-Arab Persians will enter Islam and then share with you your genealogy and your wealth." The companions became surprised by what he (SAWS) said. Then one said, "The non-Arab Persians will enter our land, Oh Messenger of Allah?!" The Prophet (SAWS) then said, "Yes. By He Who Has my soul in His Hand, if the religion was hanging on the distant star, men from the non-Arab Persians would reach it and the luckiest of them would be the people of Faris.

عن زيد بن أسلم عن بن عمر رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم رأيت غنما كثيرة سوداء دخلت فيها غنم كثيرة بيض قالوا فما أولته يا رسول الله قال العجم يشركونكم في دينكم وأنسابكم قالوا العجم يا رسول الله قال لو كان الإيمان معلقا بالثريا لناله رجال من العجم وأسعدهم به الناس.

And the man's nickname being "The Black" only shows that he was very black-skinned. But what you need to know is who that man was and how pure his genealogy is. This is what you don't know. Ask the Shurafaa about him. They can tell you who he was. Once you learn who he is, you'll get my point inshaAllah. And the people in the picture I posted were his complexion or lighter and they are descended from him. That should tell you something.

[maneatinglizard]

First of all, you don't even provide the sources for these sayings, let alone their authenticity (not that I'd trust what you have to say in regards to their authenticity, as you clearly know nothing of that science).

Secondly, you don't even seem to realize that the sayings are referring to the fact that non-Arabs would eventually outnumber Arabs in terms of Islam, which we all see and recognize as true.

The sheer stupidity you show in trying to interpret these sayings as meaning that Arabs are black skinned and non-Arabs aren't is completely baffling.

[Tee]

First of all, you don't even provide the sources for these sayings, let alone their authenticity (not that I'd trust what you have to say in regards to their authenticity, as you clearly know nothing of that science).

Secondly, you don't even seem to realize that the sayings are referring to the fact that non-Arabs would eventually outnumber Arabs in terms of Islam, which we all see and recognize as true.

The sheer stupidity you show in trying to interpret these sayings as meaning that Arabs are black skinned and non-Arabs aren't is completely baffling.

It's a sound hadith even though you don't like it. You can trust me or not trust me. It doesn't change the fact that it is a sound hadith. Here it is again for you:


رقم الحديث: 8282
حديث مرفوع أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو الْحُسَيْنِ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى الْبَزَّارُ بِبَغْدَادَ ، ثَنَا الْعَبَّاسُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الدُّورِيُّ ، ثَنَا هَاشِمُ بْنُ الْقَاسِمِ ، ثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ دِينَارٍ ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَسْلَمَ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا ، قَالَ : قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآَلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ : رَأَيْتُ غَنَمًا كَثِيرَةً سَوْدَاءَ ، دَخَلَتْ فِيهَا غَنْمٌ كَثِيرَةٌ بِيضٌ " ، قَالُوا : فَمَا أَوَّلْتَهُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ؟ قَالَ : " الْعَجَمُ يَشْرَكُونَكُمْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَأَنْسَابِكُمْ " ، قَالُوا : الْعَجَمُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ؟ قَالَ : " لَوْ كَانَ الإِيمَانُ مُعَلَّقًا بِالثُّرَيَّا ، لَنَالَهُ رِجَالٌ مِنَ الْعَجَمِ ، وَأَسْعَدَهُمْ بِهِ النَّاسُ " . هَذَا حَدِيثٌ صَحِيحٌ عَلَى شَرْطِ الْبُخَارِيِّ ، وَلَمْ يُخَرِّجَاهُ

http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/displ...594&startno=21

You said:

Secondly, you don't even seem to realize that the sayings are referring to the fact that non-Arabs would eventually outnumber Arabs in terms of Islam, which we all see and recognize as true.

Apparently you can't read. The hadith says "the non-Arab Persians will enter Islam and then share with you your genealogy and your wealth". Do you know what "share with you your genealogy" means? And the Arabs refer to the Persians as the 'ajam and the hadith says the 'ajam. َAnd the end of the hadith says that if the religion was hanging on the Pleiades (a star cluster), men from the 'ajam would reach it. There are other hadiths that say the same thing about them reaching the religion even if it was on Pleiades and they make it clear that the Persians are being referred to. In one hadith it says the Furs (Persians) and in another hadith it says Salman Al-Farisi's (RAA) people.

You said:

The sheer stupidity you show in trying to interpret these sayings as meaning that Arabs are black skinned and non-Arabs aren't is completely baffling.

Have you forgotten what these renowned scholars said:

Al-Mubarrad said: "The Arabs used to take pride in their asmar and black complexion and they used to hate a red (white) color and very fair color and they said that it was the color of the Persians."

قال المبرد

"العرب كانت تفتخر بالسمرة و السواد و كانت تكره الحمرة و الشقرة و تقول انها من ألوان العجم"

Ibn Berry said: The Arabs describe their color as black and they describe the color of the Persians as red (white).

و قال ابن بري: "العرب‏ ‏تصف‏ ألوانها ‏بالسواد‏ ‏و‏ ‏تصف‏ ‏ألوان‏ ‏العجم‏ ‏بالحمرة"

Ibn Sayyida said: "...They are Arabs and their colors are adam, asmar, and black."

قال ابن سيده ... فهم عرب، وألوانهم الأدمة والسمرة والسواد

Abu Taalib Al-Nahwi said: "... It is said that he meant that he was a pure Arab because most Arabs are adam complexioned.

قال ‏أبو‏ ‏طالب‏ ‏النحوي:‏ ... ‏و‏ ‏قيل‏ ‏أراد‏‏ ‏أنه‏ ‏من‏ ‏خالص‏ ‏العرب‏ ‏و‏ ‏صميمهم‏ ‏لأن‏ ‏الغالب‏ ‏على‏ ‏ألوان‏ ‏العرب‏ ‏الأدمة.

Ibn Mandhour said: "The color of the Arabs is asmar and adam - except for a minority who aren't."

قال‏ ‏ابن‏ ‏منظور:‏ ‏‏"‏ألوان‏ ‏العرب‏ ‏السمرة‏ ‏و‏ ‏الأدمة‏ ‏الا ‏قليلا"

Mohamed ibn Ahmed Al-Azhari said:

"Most Arabs are adam complexioned."

* قال محمد بن أحمد الأزهري (صاحب التهذيب): "‏الغالب‏ ‏على‏ ‏ألوان‏ ‏العرب‏ ‏الأدمة‏"‏.