Deobandis and the dead travelling from their graves and other things

[nur11]

salaam alaikum,

I am putting some of these quotes here as I have seen on numerous threads that people who claim to be 'deobandi' in maslak mock the idea of the dead mumineen travelling beyond their graves and visiting the living. These are quotes from the respected and venerable ulama and akaabir of deoband, who are far from being kuffaar as was the unfortunate mistake of Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan, rahmatullah alaihim.

**********

Dear Mufti Sahib, Ashlamualaiykum, I would like to know it is allow to ask our requirement to peer/wali/auliya who is in blessed grave, are they able to help us, if yes please dalil, if they are not able to help us why maulana qasim nanotvi saheb came two time from his grave and helped to deobandi people, one time maulana nanotvi saheb came to darul uloom deoband to help maulana rafiuddin saheb who has dispute with other ulemas of deoband and second time he was came in punjab (india) when deobandi alim was doing munazara (debating with barelvi alim) then maulana nanotiv saheb came with his body (not only rooh), kindly note that above two incidence is noted from Arwahe Salasha it is composed by well-known deobandi school, as barelvi accused on deobandi. Please clarify, this is not for insult of anyone, i am barelvi but I respect some of deobandi idea which is really good and according to sunnah and quran. Please sir don't take it otherwise. Thanks



It is not allowed to pray to the dead for help and assistance:

قال الشیخ عبد الحق الدھلوي: أما الإستمداد بأهل القبور في غير النبى والأنبياء فقد انكره كثير من الفقهاء

قال الإمام البغوي في المعالم: الاستعانة نوع تعبد والعبادة

وفی الحدیث عن ابن عباس قال كنت خلف رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوما فقال: يا غلام احفظ الله يحفظك, احفظ الله تجده تجاهك و إذا استعنت فا ستعن بالله ?الخ

The story you have written from the book: Arwaah-e-Thalatha, it means that Allah Almighty is All-powerful, He can personify anyone for the help of others, and it is not in the power of a sheikh or debater, as Hadhrat Yaqoob (عليه السلام) was personified in front of Hadhrat Yusuf (عليه السلام).

http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuse...all=en&id=8415

********
" One day after Fajr Salah mawalana Rafeeuddeen saheb (rh) invited Mawalana Mahmoodul Hasan saheb in his room( Inside darul uloom deoband). Mawlana (Mahmoodul Hasan) arrived and opened the door and entered inside . It was severe winter at that time.

Mawalana Rafeeudeen saheb told him to first examine his overcoat. When Mawalana (Mahmoodul Hasan) saw this over coat it was wet. Mawlana Rafeeudeen told him that just now Mawalana Nanatwee visited with his physical body ( JASADE UNSAREE) and I was frightened so my overcoat became wet (due to sweating). Mawalana Nanatvee ordered that Mahmood Hasan should not indulge in this internal fight going on among the teachers of Deoband. Mawalana Mahmood Hasan said "Hazrat I repent ( do tawbah on your hands) and I will not speak anything after this, in this on going internal fight"

A small incidence from Arwahe Salasa , page 242.( A book deaing with the life of Deobandi scholars).
Here Mawalana Qasim Nanatvee can come after his death and that too in physical form, just to resolve the fight in Deoband.

********

“The great grand father of Mawlana Asharf Ali thanvee (Mohammed Farid) participated in a marriage procession and this party was passing through a remote area. The Dacoits attacked this party with bows and arrows. The grand father (of Mawlana Thanvee) got martyred in this attack.”

Story continues….

“After his martyrdom he came to meet his wife (jinda tashrif laye) and gave sweet to his wife and said ‘ if you will not reveal this secret to any one then I will come daily. The wife thought, what will other house member think when they will see her and kids eating sweets? So she told the secret to other family members. Because of this he (grand father) stopped visiting. This incidence is very famous in family. (Khandaan).”

( Asharafus Sawaneh ( Biography of Mawlana Thanvee) , by Khawja Ajeezul Hasan , vol 1 , page 12 , published by Khankah Imdadiyah , Thana Bhavan)


**************

Question :Salafi are using this waqiah to confuse people. Please shed some light on this incident and other stories of Awlya Allah?

Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi’s Grandfather comes back after Death!

A strange incident is mentioned in Ashraf-us-Sawaneh (biography of Ashraf Ali Thanvi) about the great-grandfather of Ashraf Ali Thanvi, Muhammad Fareed. He was accompanying a marriage procession when it was attacked by a band of thieves. Muhammad Fareed died defending the procession and was buried near the tomb of Pir Samauddin. An urs (festival) was held at his grave for many years. The biographer writes, “After his martyrdom a strange incident occurred. At night, he returned to his home as if he was alive and gave some sweets to his family members saying, ‘If you do not tell (about my visit) to anyone, I shall keep coming this way.’ But the family members feared that the people may suspect something wrong when they see the children eating sweets, so they disclosed the incident and after this he did not return.”[1] Ashraf-us-Sawaneh, vol.1, p.12.

Answer:
Souls of Momin coming back to the world is possible and there is nothing against shariah in it.. Souls of the Kuffar are restricted after their death. Such type of incidents are called Karamat and are proven for souls of Momin. Karamat are Haq and there is nothing against Shariah in it. Ashraf us Sawaneh is a reliable book.

http://www.shariahboard.org/viewfatwa.aspx?Question

**********

Mufti Abdur Rahim Lajpuri, a prominent Deobandi scholar, says in Fatawa Rahimiyyah, “The soul can and does come. Events and observations bear witness to this fact.” Fatawa Rahimiyyah (Eng. Trans.) vol. 2, p.252, Question no. 355

From Kitabul Janaiz, “The belief that the Ruh (soul) of the mayyit (dead) remains in the house or visits the house for forty days is baseless. While it is possible for the Ruh to visit any place with the permission of Allah, the belief that it does in fact visit the home on specific days is not correct.” Kitabul Janaiz (Hanafee), p.36 by Majlis-Ulema, the pro-Deobandi lobby of South Africa

Jazakallah khair brother for posting this information...very informative..My Salaams

[naqshbandiosmanli]

First of all, Ahmad Raza is a Dajjaal and so are his dajjalic followers. Second: you copied and paste this from Barelwi websites that are deemed unreliable anyway.

Next time if you quote from Deobandis, do it properly from their own sources in the way they understand and explain it.

It seems you have messed up the issue with mithaal (mirror) of a person being present in more places and the issue of a so-called wali multiplying and being present in more places at 1 time, and knowing in each case what he is doing.

First of all, maybe you are a dajjal, and maybe you are completely unreliable. Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan made mistakes, but he was a scholar of this deen. You are nothing at all.

Second I have the books Fadaail Hajj, amaal, Mashaikh i-Chist, Irshaad ul-Mulook, Ikhmaal ush-Shiyam, Shariah and Tariqa, etc, and I have read and discussed these issues with Deobandi ulama. If people want to learn more go to the ulama. My point is simply trying to shake people out of their ignorance as if the akabir of Deoband

As far as the mithaal, I haven't messed anything up. I know that when this muliplication takes place it is projection, so what are you talking about?

The Deobandi akabir again were hardcore sufis who have much more incommon with the Barelvis than of the extremist sectarian lay men would have you believe. Making stupid comments like Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan was a dajjal and his followers are dajjalic shows how ignorant and sectarian individuals are.

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Souls visiting family after death

Asslamu Alaikum: I have a few questions. If I get answer will be appreciated. 1. Is it true, if a person's grave placed near the grave of Mohammad Sallalahu Alahisallam, or any other Sahabi who were the helper and follower of our prophet, his/her (the person who's grave will be given near) grave punishment will be suspended. 2. Is it true, a dead person's soul can see his family members activity, if so, how long a soul can see or visit his family? is there any special day like sobekodor the souls of the family member visit the family. Thanks for your time and help. Mohammed J. Islam New York USA
Answer: 29445 Feb 10,2011
(Fatwa: 353/186/D=1432)

(1) A deceased person gets benefit if he is buried beside the grave of a pious person but its condition and quantity is not known.
(2) The soul sees whatever happens with the dead body like bath and coffin etc before burial and remains in the hold of angels and enters into the body after burial. (Sharh al-Sudur by Suyuti, p. 39) It is not proved from any authentic hadith that the soul ever comes home and sees the activity of family members. (Fatawa Mahmoodia, Vol. 1, p. 605
Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

It does not need to be proven from authentic hadith as it has been proven from the experiences of the awliya and the ulama of this deen. And as far as I know there is nothing in the ahadith that says that the souls traveling from the graves to visit their families etc, is immpossible. So unless there is a sahih hadith that says this is impossible it should not be held as such.

[NNoor]

It does not need to be proven from authentic hadith as it has been proven from the experiences of the awliya and the ulama of this deen. And as far as I know there is nothing in the ahadith that says that the souls traveling from the graves to visit their families etc, is immpossible. So unless there is a sahih hadith that says this is impossible it should not be held as such.

This is what I was trying to explain in the barelwi/deobandi reconciliation thread where some were claiming that it's kufr to believe that the dead can interact with this world or meet the living in dreams.

[Ansari]

First of all, maybe you are a dajjal, and maybe you are completely unreliable. Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan made mistakes, but he was a scholar of this deen. You are nothing at all.

I am only quoting Mawlana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri. He called Ahmad Raza DAJJAAL in al-muhannad. If he is not from the AKAABIR then who is?

Also, it has been authentically reported from Ml. Thanwi that he interpreted a dream about Ahmad Raza being in HELL. Also Ml. Husayn Ahmad Madani called him many names including the REVIVOR of SHIRK and INNOVATION.

So yeah, the akaabir were hardcore Sufis who called Ahmad Raza rightly so a DAJJAAL.

Second I have the books Fadaail Hajj, amaal, Mashaikh i-Chist, Irshaad ul-Mulook, Ikhmaal ush-Shiyam, Shariah and Tariqa, etc, and I have read and discussed these issues with Deobandi ulama. If people want to learn more go to the ulama. My point is simply trying to shake people out of their ignorance as if the akabir of Deoband

As far as the mithaal, I haven't messed anything up. I know that when this muliplication takes place it is projection, so what are you talking about?

The Deobandi akabir again were hardcore sufis who have much more incommon with the Barelvis than of the extremist sectarian lay men would have you believe. Making stupid comments like Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan was a dajjal and his followers are dajjalic shows how ignorant and sectarian individuals are.

It does not matter how many books you have. The point is you are quoting from filthy Barelwi lies known for their distortions. Go ahead and scan from Arwahe Thalatha? Or from "For Friends"? You are quoting stuff with no explanation; that is the whole point.

Take this quote for example:

Mufti Abdur Rahim Lajpuri, a prominent Deobandi scholar, says in Fatawa Rahimiyyah, “The soul can and does come. Events and observations bear witness to this fact.” Fatawa Rahimiyyah (Eng. Trans.) vol. 2, p.252, Question no. 355

You left the whole explanation of this statement out, and he actually agrees with Baheshti Zewar in the statement that the belief that the souls come back at certain days as an INNOVATION. Why did you leave that out? He clearly says "but the coming and going of souls is not within their power."

The issue of souls being seen at certain place with the permission of Allah is a whole other belief than the shirki aqida of souls helping whenever a caller calls them and being present and fully aware.

Bottom line is: claiming without any authentic proof that someone is ALWAYS present is SHIRK.

[Aram]

It does not need to be proven from authentic hadith as it has been proven from the experiences of the awliya and the ulama of this deen. And as far as I know there is nothing in the ahadith that says that the souls traveling from the graves to visit their families etc, is immpossible. So unless there is a sahih hadith that says this is impossible it should not be held as such.

point is your saying a lot of things and the prominent deobandi scholars of this time are saying the opposite

[umairel]

i hear that Shah Waliullah(r.a) write that the souls of some pious persons are appointed by Allah in helping human beings like angels. Anyone provide complete statement?
I have seen many fatawas, malfuzaat, but i need a complete book on the topic of souls, any book on it by shah waliullah?

[yoldash]

assalam alikum wa rahmat Allah,

brothers this is very important disscussion. jazak allah khair for expressed views

[naqshbandiosmanli]

I am only quoting Mawlana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri. He called Ahmad Raza DAJJAAL in al-muhannad. If he is not from the AKAABIR then who is?

Also, it has been authentically reported from Ml. Thanwi that he interpreted a dream about Ahmad Raza being in HELL. Also Ml. Husayn Ahmad Madani called him many names including the REVIVOR of SHIRK and INNOVATION.

So yeah, the akaabir were hardcore Sufis who called Ahmad Raza rightly so a DAJJAAL.



It does not matter how many books you have. The point is you are quoting from filthy Barelwi lies known for their distortions. Go ahead and scan from Arwahe Thalatha? Or from "For Friends"? You are quoting stuff with no explanation; that is the whole point.

Take this quote for example:


You left the whole explanation of this statement out, and he actually agrees with Baheshti Zewar in the statement that the belief that the souls come back at certain days as an INNOVATION. Why did you leave that out? He clearly says "but the coming and going of souls is not within their power."

The issue of souls being seen at certain place with the permission of Allah is a whole other belief than the shirki aqida of souls helping whenever a caller calls them and being present and fully aware.

Bottom line is: claiming without any authentic proof that someone is ALWAYS present is SHIRK.

Who made that claim? Why do you make default that a person must believe things in the wrong batil way, when nothing that I have quoted is wrong at all, and can only be interpreted wrong by people who don't know anything at all?

So what if Shaikh Sahranpuri called Shaikh Ridha a dajjal? Shaikh Ahmad Ridha called him a kafir. So should I believe Shaikh Sahranpuri or Shaikh Ahmad Ridha? I don't favor one side to the point I lean towards one side more than the other. I am not a sectarian, I don't start from the premise that one side is always right and it is the other side that is always wrong.

I don't believe the things you are claiming, I am not a Barelvi, the takfeer was wrong, Shaikh Ahmad Ridha made a mistake and probably made more mistakes, just as the akaabir of deoband made mistakes on issues. I don't believe in your sectarian way of acting as if the deobandi ulama are infalliable when the Barelvis are comlete jahil. Anyone who knows anything know that MANY of the barelvi beliefs have been miscontsrued by ignorant sectarians from the deobandi side, and we know that ignorant juhala from the Barelvi side belive that Shaikh Ahmad Ridha Khan was some how masoom or something. Neither side is complete haqq but neither side is complete batil. I don't care if Shaikh Saharanpuri said Shaikh Ahmad Ridha was a dajjal or if someone had a dream, because if I believe them why shouldn't I believe what Shaikh Ahmad Ridha said about the Akabir of Deoband? If they said things that could be considered as insults to the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salim, why shouldn't I believe the takfir? But the reality is both sides are so messed up and hate each other so much that they have poisened many Muslims who have nothing to do with this stupid dispute into thinking they have to pick a side. YOU DON'T! Both sides are messed up and fitna that is created from using these terms"DEobandi" and "Barelvi" is far greater than any good they did.

Both sides or so controversial I don't know how anyone but a complete sectarian can stay and follow one or the other. Look at the Deobandis, I mean, the lay people are so messed up; you have tablighi jamaat who I have heard and seen say disgusting things about tasawwuf and jihad and act as if the only effort of haqq is their idea of khurooj, and then you have the sufi deobandis who don't go in jamaat who think that the jamaat has become a tool of Shaitan. I know this stuff guy, I've been for 4 months and I was bayyah to a Deobandi Shaikh, and the amount of division that exists within this group is is astounding. And then you add on top of this the Barelvi dispute and all the controversy there, how can anyone follow sub-continent ulama without any doubt?

My suggestion to people who read this who are not from the sub-continent is to stay away from it and the issues they are having. The controversy is too dangerous for your iman, and often the only way you'll be able to reconcile everthing is to think that many Muslims are on batil. Follow the ulama of Sham or yemen, where there are many ahadith that say that knowledge and iman is in these places, as far as I know there are absolutely no ahadith that say knowledge is in India, and while there is definately knowledge there, there is far too much controversy to be comfortable.

I take the example of Shaikh Nuh writing that article on iman kufr and takfir; he tried to point out that both sides are mistaking on some issues, and then both sides again tried to prove that their elders were infaiable and it was the other side that made the mistake. The Barelvis said Shaikh Nuh had become corrupt for his gentleness towards the Deobandis, and I have been told to my face by graduates of Bury and Dewsbury that Shaikh Nuh was taking sides and corrupt because he was easy on the Barelvis and took out mistakes in the akabir of Deoband. I have been told to my face a graduate of a Deobandi Dar ul-Uloom in the UK that I should not go and see Shaikh Muhammad Yaqubi because his aqida is in doubt because he goes to barelvi masajid. I mean, this fitna has gone on too long, it is enough, I hope both sides either get over it and quiet calling each other kafir, dajjal, mushrik, innovators, etc, and if they can't do that, I hope that Allah removes this fitna before it spreads any further.

[naqshbandiosmanli]

point is your saying a lot of things and the prominent deobandi scholars of this time are saying the opposite

No you see I am not saying anything, I am quoting what Deobandi ulama of the past have said. If the scholars today who call themselves deobandis don't agree with their elders, I have nothing to do with this.