Deobandis and the dead travelling from their graves and other things

[mov]

Assalamualikum. @ naqshbandiosmanli...

Please do more research before posting stuff, i have read most of your comments and all seems to be incorrect.

Most of the saying of the scholars have been misinterpreted.

and yes iv done my research and spoken to few scholars before posting this.

Most notably, Hadhrat Molana Yusuf motala and Molana Bilal Bawa

There is no such thing as elders deobandis and the new generation, Alhumdulilah they all share the same view.

And to all my other brothers, please refrain from calling other brother kuffar/dajjal etc... we dont have the right

Jazakallah

[Biddahbasher]

Assalamualikum. @ naqshbandiosmanli...

Please do more research before posting stuff, i have read most of your comments and all seems to be incorrect.

Most of the saying of the scholars have been misinterpreted.

and yes iv done my research and spoken to few scholars before posting this.

Most notably, Hadhrat Molana Yusuf motala and Molana Bilal Bawa

There is no such thing as elders deobandis and the new generation, Alhumdulilah they all share the same view.

And to all my other brothers, please refrain from calling other brother kuffar/dajjal etc... we dont have the right

Jazakallah

Explain the misinterpretation. I want to know what the deobandis really believe about these things.

[naqshbandiosmanli]

It's warped you can accuse me of slandering and I haven't said anything yet from myself just pointed to stuff thats been publicised by your friends, while your having a bash at deobandis is ok. And why isn't your comment against Hisham Kabbani another slander?

Everytime I'm inclined towards sufism I get put off by this sort of thing. Can you explain to me the following:

Sharjeel Aslam
July 14, 2010 at 2:38 pm
One question for Sidi Gibril Haddad: Is participating in hadra with non-mahrams (literally holding hands with opposite genders) permissible or apprehended in our path?

I will eagerly anticipate your response. But let me give you little background to my question. Back in April of 2008 Shaykh Hisham visited Southern California. An event was organized on April 19th at the Muslla Tauhid in Los Angeles with the Village Lutheran Church and Ahavat Torah Jewish congregation and Shaykh Hisham was the keynote speaker, after the talk Shaykh Hisham invited all of the attendees to enjoy the Sufi music (which is fine) and after that to join the hadra. The hadra consisted of male and females along with each other holding hands and all this happened in front of Shaykh Hisham….Not only I witnessed it but many of the other attendees (non-mureeds) who out of immense respect for Shaykh Hisham came to attend his talk.

However, witnessing such a behavior totally turned all of us off. How long will this go on? will not anyone apprehend such public behavior? which to my limited knowledge this is totally contrary to the Sunnah of our beloved Messenger (SWS) and the Shairah in general. I know you have spend some time with the light of of our times, Shaykh Muhammad Al-Yaqoobi (May Allah Preserve and Sanctify his soul) would he approve of such acts during the pur practice of hadra?

Gibril Fouad Haddad
July 21, 2010 at 6:08 am

Al-Hamdulillah you understand the tanazzul of the Awliya and how far they go in order to reach their target. You mention that there is no doubt about the vision and deep wisdom of Mawlana Shaykh Nazim. You should know that in 1993 he did a hadra at the Lama Foundation in New Mexico and he was in the middle of a huge circle with all men and women joining hands and doing hadra around him. After that more than 20 people took shahada and bay`a with him. Yes, all holding hands and mixing. Do you think Sayyidi `Ali al-Budaylimi or Habib Mashhur rahimahumallah would have objected? I believe they would have prayed two rak`as of shukr if it had happened to them because they knew that al-Sufi Ibnul Waqt.

I wonder if we would have lasted one day with the Sufi Shuyukh bringing Islam to pagan India. Muslims in the West live in the midst of fire but they still want to go by the book and smell like a rose; sometimes it will smell like smoke. Regarding the California event with Lutheran and Jewish attendants it is not whether it is ‘they’ or ‘we’ who touch hands that matters, it is the fact that after that hadra there were three shahadas with Shaykh Hisham. You should not come to his gatherings with your own prepared expectancies. If you do, then you are not yet respecting the one who deputized him over the US but still following your own choices; which yes, if it matters, I do understand, and may Allah guide you and us.



This means that none of those dodgy sufis can be criticized for the funny stuff they get up to because it will be a horrible slander as we do not understand the hidden reasons by their action. The whole sufism thing is a big mess. The ends justify the means. Music, dancing, free-mixing, holding hands, are all allowed for dawa purposes. Why not go further and include zina? It's all good as long as she converts to Islam.

1) what do the ulama that you follow say about the ones you are slandering?
2) have you received their permission to point out their faults or are you acting on your own whim?
3) what efforts have you or the ulama you follow made to contact and discuss these issues with the people you are speaking about so harshly?

[naqshbandiosmanli]

Assalamualikum. @ naqshbandiosmanli...

Please do more research before posting stuff, i have read most of your comments and all seems to be incorrect.

Most of the saying of the scholars have been misinterpreted.

and yes iv done my research and spoken to few scholars before posting this.

Most notably, Hadhrat Molana Yusuf motala and Molana Bilal Bawa

There is no such thing as elders deobandis and the new generation, Alhumdulilah they all share the same view.

And to all my other brothers, please refrain from calling other brother kuffar/dajjal etc... we dont have the right

Jazakallah

Wa alaikum salaam

I have not interpreted anything brother for one. And I may very well be wrong on everything.
What did you ask Shaikh Yusuf Motalla and Shaikh Bilal in this regard?

As for all deobandis sharing the same view, you are incorrect in this I'm afraid. Spend more time with the deobandi ulama (not only the ones connected to Bury) and you shall see the differences. This my take nearly a decade of their company (as it did for me) but you will see.

[Biddahbasher]

1) what do the ulama that you follow say about the ones you are slandering?
2) have you received their permission to point out their faults or are you acting on your own whim?
3) what efforts have you or the ulama you follow made to contact and discuss these issues with the people you are speaking about so harshly?

The ulama I followed, though I no longer trust them fully any more, have always attacked the sufis and encourage others to do so as part of enjoining the good and forbidding evil. What's the point of verifying with your ulama when they have themselves admitted committing haram in order to meet a particular goal.

Please explain how your comment regarding deobandis and hisham kabbani is not slander. Please also explain why clearly haram things such as music, dancing, zina (of eyes, hearts, hands, legs etc.) are allowed while giving dawah, according to your ulama. I thought true sufis stay away from all doubtful things.

According to Gibril Haddad's answer then every goofy sufi can get away with any haram to justify the ends.
What's wrong with committing zina with a girl as long as the divinely appointed shaykh is inspired that she will convert as a result? According to such methodology, saving someone from eternal damnation must surely be given priority over a temporary crime?

[naqshbandiosmanli]

The ulama I followed, though I no longer trust them fully any more, have always attacked the sufis and encourage others to do so as part of enjoining the good and forbidding evil. What's the point of verifying with your ulama when they have themselves admitted committing haram in order to meet a particular goal.

So from this I gather you don't follow any ulama at present, save your own nafs, and the ulama you used to follow you yourself have deemed as untrustworthy, even though you liked that they attack the sufis so you continue in that as you wish. When you have the backing of trust worthy ulama informing you and guiding see what they say in this regard, as at this point you are ignorant and have no way to know if what I respond to you is correct or not, save the judgment of your own nafs. I shall not continue you this with you for your own sake.

[Biddahbasher]

So from this I gather you don't follow any ulama at present, save your own nafs, and the ulama you used to follow you yourself have deemed as untrustworthy, even though you liked that they attack the sufis so you continue in that as you wish. When you have the backing of trust worthy ulama informing you and guiding see what they say in this regard, as at this point you are ignorant and have no way to know if what I respond to you is correct or not, save the judgment of your own nafs. I shall not continue you this with you for your own sake.

Nice evasion tactic to avoid answering something for which you have no answers but your nafs. If you had valid answers you'd give it straight away to dispel everyones doubts. So how did you leave one sufi group for another sufi group that allows music, free-mixing, zina, (for good causes of course), if it wasn't for your nafs? I highly doubt your deobandi ulama would have advised you to join another sufi group.

Because you're not going to answer my questions, maybe others on this forum will ask you the questions so that you can explain properly the halalisation process of music, free-mixing, zina, for good causes of course.

[Imam Nawawi]

Assalalmualakum
Title of thread does not match the convo bros jzk