Difference between Maulana Ilyas Ghuman and Central Mosque.

[chopdat]

answer to questions:
1. If Allah is everywhere is he also in the bathroom? he answered Allah does not have body so there is no problem, e.g you cannot take Quran there, yet it is in you heart and mind when you go in, yet no problem
2. If you say Allah is everywhere, hulool or ittihaad that place? No, we reject Hulool and ittihaad
3. Allah is pure from Body, why did Allah use words that put people in doubt, face, hand etc? 1. World is place of test/examination. Allah id not similar to anything, and we take such a meaning from these words that are suitable (we do not fall into finding its true meaning) 2. ibn Jawji in daru shubah tashbeeh, answer..the mushrikeen needed these words to understand Allah, take the word, with meaning that is suitable to Allah (no a body not a johar(atom) etc (listen for full answer)
.... ' bawadirun nawadir page 50 ' Allah is closer to you then your jugular vein' 'he is with you where ever you are' 1. Allah is with you (zaat/self without discription) 2. Allah is with you (knowledge). Allah does not have a body so no objection. Allah has no limits, infinite , we do hot describe how Allah is with us, so Allah is with us, Zaat bi laa kayf and Knowledge not just knowledge. Conclusion Mawjood bil laa makaan (it is not fi kulli makaan as some1 wrote) next point Allah is Above the Arsh and we do not fix the arsh as Allahs place, Imam Rabbani.. arsh and what is above it is creation, cannot fix Allah to it. Makaatib Rasheediyyah.. Even though Allah is 'waraaul warraa' (Allah is behind veils upon veils) Allah is also with us, we do not need to say just knowledge, where ever there is knowledge there is Zaat. e.g if knowledge is there then the person with the knowledge will also be there. Allah is not just above the arsh, he is with us also.
references tamheedul farsh fi tahdeedil arsh (thanwi) 2. 3. kitaab asma was siffat bayhaqi, daru shubah tashbeeh, jawzi. badrudeen ibn jamaah, mussamarah sharh musayyara ibn hammam, isharat maram, sharh maqasid taftazani, sharh mawaqif jurjanwi, asaasut taqlees razi, maqaalaat kawthari, zahid kawthari, (the video is in question and answer format, answering ghair muqallids objections)

[faqir]

I remember you had a thread named atributes of a salafi god
Where did it go?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post591237

[junfrared]

Assalamualaikum,


I heard Maulana Ilyas Ghuman D.B speeches and he says "Allah is everywhere".

Maulana Ilyas Ghuman D.B. is one of the current most influentials, sharp, intellegent, respectable and fast spreading identity across the country.

Walikum Usalam,

First of all Ilyas Ghumman Sahab isn't prominent among the Scholars/Ulama, he is only famous among the laymen. He don't have good intellectual background, He was a Jihadi activist (means he was busy in practical activities, not intellectual activities) before this profession, but after the ban of Jihaidi organization of Pakistan, he switched his profession to polemics, interesting thing is that if you search the entire internet, even his own website you will not find his face to face dialogue to his opponents. You will hardly hardly find one or two videos on entire internet!!!

Even he don't know how read the name of an Imam, (however a student of Dars-e-Nizami of grade 5 or 6 knows how to read it !!!!!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b17MM...ilpage#t=1067s

Listen him at 17:48, He says "Imam NOVI" (نووِی), however a child knows, who practice Dars-e-Nizami, that it is "Imam NAWAWI" (نَوَوِی) not NOVI

Only a layman can read it NOVI, even a layman who habitually spend his time among the scholars knows this thing.

This is only the sample, however there is long list of his…..

However, most Deobandi websites state that the belief "Allah is everywhere" is wrong.

Can you give me the links of those Deobandi websites which says Allah Ta’ala isn’t everywhere.

Why this contradiction when both are from Deoband.

Leave whatever the people say, adhere to Quran wa Hadith, and to opinions of Sahabah r.a., and to opinions of Pious Predecessors and A’emah Arbah (esp. Imam Abu Hanaifah ra.) , and to those scholars who are in agreement to them. Leave those who don’t accept the opinions of all previous mentioned entities by doing weird ta’weelat, even if you think they are very prominent scholars. As you now know a scholar “Imam NOVI”


The correct position of Ahlesunnat wa Aljammat is:
Allah Ta’ala is above his Throne however by the virtue of his lots of attributes (not by His Essence, bi-dhatihi) He is with us, He is in our Hearts, near to our souls, He is everywhere, there is no place which isn’t encompassed by His knowledge. You can see some evidence upon this here:


The Belief of the Pious Predecessors Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah Regarding Allah's Istiwa' & Elevation above His creation

The Ma`iyyah of Allah (Being With His Creation) And His Nearness (everywhereness)

[Sulaiman84]

Stop trying to go for low blows, man. Most madrasah students know how to pronounce the letter ج as 'jeem', however some ulamaa in conversation, pronounce it as 'geem' according to their dialect. And the list and examples can go on. It's not a issue to try to discredit an alim for. It becomes a problem when a person reads Qur'an like that, without the rules of tajweed.

I mean, if he's making your tongue itch because he exposes ghair muqallids, then just say it as it is, man.

[abdulwahhab]

Walikum Usalam,

First of all Ilyas Ghumman Sahab isn't prominent among the Scholars/Ulama, he is only famous among the laymen. He don't have good intellectual background, He was a Jihadi activist (means he was busy in practical activities, not intellectual activities) before this profession, but after the ban of Jihaidi organization of Pakistan, he switched his profession to polemics, interesting thing is that if you search the entire internet, even his own website you will not find his face to face dialogue to his opponents. You will hardly hardly find one or two videos on entire internet!!!

Even he don't know how read the name of an Imam, (however a student of Dars-e-Nizami of grade 5 or 6 knows how to read it !!!!!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b17MMAUw65s&feature=player_detailpage#t=10 67s

Listen him at 17:48, He says "Imam NOVI" (نووِی), however a child knows, who practice Dars-e-Nizami, that it is "Imam NAWAWI" (نَوَوِی) not NOVI

Only a layman can read it NOVI, even a layman who habitually spend his time among the scholars knows this thing.

This is only the sample, however there is long list of his…..





Can you give me the links of those Deobandi websites which says Allah Ta’ala isn’t everywhere.



Leave whatever the people say, adhere to Quran wa Hadith, and to opinions of Sahabah r.a., and to opinions of Pious Predecessors and A’emah Arbah (esp. Imam Abu Hanaifah ra.) , and to those scholars who are in agreement to them. Leave those who don’t accept the opinions of all previous mentioned entities by doing weird ta’weelat, even if you think they are very prominent scholars. As you now know a scholar “Imam NOVI”


The correct position of Ahlesunnat wa Aljammat is:
Allah Ta’ala is above his Throne however by the virtue of his lots of attributes (not by His Essence, bi-dhatihi) He is with us, He is in our Hearts, near to our souls, He is everywhere, there is no place which isn’t encompassed by His knowledge. You can see some evidence upon this here:


The Belief of the Pious Predecessors Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah Regarding Allah's Istiwa' & Elevation above His creation

The Ma`iyyah of Allah (Being With His Creation) And His Nearness (everywhereness)

Are you really trying to say that Maulana Ilyas Ghuman is wrong based on his pronunciation of "Nawawi"? And if anyone were to say "Nawawi" quickly, it does sound like "Nawi".

And no, that is not the 'aqeedah of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah because you just appointed a direction to Allah . Allah is not above the throne, because that means he is not below the throne, beside the throne, behind the throne - that he is restricted to a place "above the throne", when Allah is beyond physical restraints.

[Usman]

Walikum Usalam,

First of all Ilyas Ghumman Sahab isn't prominent among the Scholars/Ulama, he is only famous among the laymen. He don't have good intellectual background, He was a Jihadi activist (means he was busy in practical activities, not intellectual activities) before this profession, but after the ban of Jihaidi organization of Pakistan, he switched his profession to polemics, interesting thing is that if you search the entire internet, even his own website you will not find his face to face dialogue to his opponents. You will hardly hardly find one or two videos on entire internet!!!

Even he don't know how read the name of an Imam, (however a student of Dars-e-Nizami of grade 5 or 6 knows how to read it !!!!!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b17MMAUw65s&feature=player_detailpage#t=10 67s

Listen him at 17:48, He says "Imam NOVI" (نووِی), however a child knows, who practice Dars-e-Nizami, that it is "Imam NAWAWI" (نَوَوِی) not NOVI

Only a layman can read it NOVI, even a layman who habitually spend his time among the scholars knows this thing.

This is only the sample, however there is long list of his…..





Can you give me the links of those Deobandi websites which says Allah Ta’ala isn’t everywhere.



Leave whatever the people say, adhere to Quran wa Hadith, and to opinions of Sahabah r.a., and to opinions of Pious Predecessors and A’emah Arbah (esp. Imam Abu Hanaifah ra.) , and to those scholars who are in agreement to them. Leave those who don’t accept the opinions of all previous mentioned entities by doing weird ta’weelat, even if you think they are very prominent scholars. As you now know a scholar “Imam NOVI”


The correct position of Ahlesunnat wa Aljammat is:
Allah Ta’ala is above his Throne however by the virtue of his lots of attributes (not by His Essence, bi-dhatihi) He is with us, He is in our Hearts, near to our souls, He is everywhere, there is no place which isn’t encompassed by His knowledge. You can see some evidence upon this here:


The Belief of the Pious Predecessors Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama'ah Regarding Allah's Istiwa' & Elevation above His creation

The Ma`iyyah of Allah (Being With His Creation) And His Nearness (everywhereness)

Every time I visit Sunniforum, I'm surprised by the type of stupid people come here. You really must be an idiot sitting behind the computer learning "Islam" and have never been in the company of Ulama of Deoband. Maulana Ilyas Ghumman's books are being distributed in Darululoom Deoband , and here comes a fool claiming he's not well known among the Ulama. I suggest you go meet Ulama like Allama Dr. Khalid Mahmood sahib , or Maulana Arshad Madni Sahib, or Late Maulana Abu Bakr Ghazipuri sahib Damat Barakatuhumul Aalia or go visit the Madaris like Khairul Madaris Multan, Jamia Ashrafia Lahore, Jamia Binori Town , Jamia Farooqia , Darululoom Korangi, Jamia Ashraful Madaris etc in Karachi and ask the Asatiza of Hadeeth and Fiqh about Maulana Ilyas sahib before opening your pie hole.

I mean come on brothers, really? Novi vs Nawawi? I can present a page from Allama Nawawi's book in front of you and guarantee that you won't be able to read a single paragraph without errors. I can present a page of Baydhawi and you won't be able to explain a single paragraph. So know your limits before coming over and speaking ill about Ulama. Let alone Maulana Ilyas sahib, I bet you can't stand 10 minutes in front of Maulana's students. So get real and get some shame.

[junfrared]

Stop trying to go for low blows, man. Most madrasah students know how to pronounce the letter ج as 'jeem', however some ulamaa in conversation, pronounce it as 'geem' according to their dialect. And the list and examples can go on. It's not a issue to try to discredit an alim for. It becomes a problem when a person reads Qur'an like that, without the rules of tajweed.

dil ko behlane ko ye khayal acha hai Ghalib

Don't be fool, it is not dialectal problem, dialectal issues jeem or geem, etc. which belongs to two Arab nations,

Novi or Nawawi is the issue b/w layman and scholars, only a illiterate person can say NOVI, b/c most often here in Pakistan books don't have diacritics
So only scholars know how to read the words properly. layman will read it with its common sense, e.g. عباده (scholar says 'Ubadah عُباده, and Pakistani layman will say Ebadah ) and امام يحي بن معين (scholar says Yaha bin Ma'in مَعِيْن and Pakistani layman will say Yaha bin Moeen same is the case of نووي scholar knows it has hidden Arabic diacritics so it will pronounce as Nawawi نَوَوِی, and a Pakistani layman will pronounce NOVI by analogizing it upon Urdu.

So it is clearly established that illiteracy, and it don't have any excuse of dialect b/c it has nothing to do with dialect, it is issue of illiteracy to diacritics

I mean, if he's making your tongue itch because he exposes ghair muqallids, then just say it as it is, man.

No my hands are itching upon Imam NOVI BTW I'm not GM, I'm Hanafi, who do Ameen bis sir, don't do Rafa yadaen, and don't recite Fatiha behind the Imam etc..

If he exposes GMs like this then tu Allah hi Hafiz hai

Are you really trying to say that Maulana Ilyas Ghuman is wrong based on his pronunciation of "Nawawi"? And if anyone were to say "Nawawi" quickly, it does sound like "Nawi".

There exist no connection among Nawawi , Nawi , NOVI. Ghamman Sahab said NOVI, not Nawi listen it again

And no, that is not the 'aqeedah of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah because you just appointed a direction to Allah . Allah is not above the throne, because that means he is not below the throne, beside the throne, behind the throne - that he is restricted to a place "above the throne", when Allah is beyond physical restraints.

What I said is written in Quran, and in Ahadith, and it is saying of Sahabah, Tabeen and Tab' Tabeen, numerous Aemah-e-Islam (including Four Imams), as it evident from the links which have shared, what you have said is not exist in Quran wa Hadith or in the opinions of Salaf, except in Greek mythology and in the books their followers.

If it is Kufur then Quran tells us this Kufur, Hadith tells us this Kufur, entire period of Salaf (Sahabah to Tab' Tabeen) and the vast majority of Khalaf, unanimously proclaim this Kufur!!!!!!!

Do you think they all are Kafir you are Muslim!!

If you think Quran is mutashbah (unknown) regarding to these issues, then who gave the authority to Sahabah to explain the meanings of mutashbah in their own words, openly use then with their literal meanings, and it is not limited to Sahabah, the entire era of Salaf use these verses with their literal meanings, how did they dare? Nobody have authority to assign a meaning with their own. So it is established that issue of mutashbah is baseless issue.

[junfrared]

Every time I visit Sunniforum, I'm surprised by the type of stupid people come here. You really must be an idiot sitting behind the computer learning "Islam" and have never been in the company of Ulama of Deoband. Maulana Ilyas Ghumman's books are being distributed in Darululoom Deoband , and here comes a fool claiming he's not well known among the Ulama. I suggest you go meet Ulama like Allama Dr. Khalid Mahmood sahib , or Maulana Arshad Madni Sahib, or Late Maulana Abu Bakr Ghazipuri sahib Damat Barakatuhumul Aalia or go visit the Madaris like Khairul Madaris Multan, Jamia Ashrafia Lahore, Jamia Binori Town , Jamia Farooqia , Darululoom Korangi, Jamia Ashraful Madaris etc in Karachi and ask the Asatiza of Hadeeth and Fiqh about Maulana Ilyas sahib before opening your pie hole.

I mean come on brothers, really? Novi vs Nawawi? I can present a page from Allama Nawawi's book in front of you and guarantee that you won't be able to read a single paragraph without errors. I can present a page of Baydhawi and you won't be able to explain a single paragraph. So know your limits before coming over and speaking ill about Ulama. Let alone Maulana Ilyas sahib, I bet you can't stand 10 minutes in front of Maulana's students. So get real and get some shame.

Live in Karachi, I know how much he has penetration in Madaris, His Sheikh, Moulana Hakeem Akhtar Sahab also not happy with him and have taken away his Khilafat from him.

And I'm not comparing myself to "Mutakalim Islam", I'm only letting you see your own "Mutakalim Islam" in his own words. So don't ask me to read a paragraph.

And I'm not telling you story of "A PARAGHRAPH", I'm telling you the story of a person who can't read A VERY FAMOUS SINGLE WORD

So don't distory the image of our Ulama by declaring him an Alim who don't know A SINGLE WORD not A PARAGRAPH

[junfrared]

Let alone Maulana Ilyas sahib, I bet you can't stand 10 minutes in front of Maulana's students.

Oh yes yes, he never ever will come to face anybody

interesting thing is that if you search the entire internet, even his own website you will not find his face to face dialogue to his opponents. You will hardly hardly find one or two videos on entire internet!!!!!!!!

[abdulwahhab]

There exist no connection among Nawawi , Nawi , NOVI. Ghamman Sahab said NOVI, not Nawi listen it again

You're a pathetic individual if you really believe an 'alim doesn't know how to pronounce Nawawi correctly. There are many Arabs who do the same when there are two waws after each other. And the fact that you tried to say that it is not a dialectical problem shows your limited knowledge on the issue.

What I said is written in Quran, and in Ahadith, and it is saying of Sahabah, Tabeen and Tab' Tabeen, numerous Aemah-e-Islam (including Four Imams), as it evident from the links which have shared, what you have said is not exist in Quran wa Hadith or in the opinions of Salaf, except in Greek mythology and in the books their followers.

If it is Kufur then Quran tells us this Kufur, Hadith tells us this Kufur, entire period of Salaf (Sahabah to Tab' Tabeen) and the vast majority of Khalaf, unanimously proclaim this Kufur!!!!!!!

Do you think they all are Kafir you are Muslim!!

If you think Quran is mutashbah (unknown) regarding to these issues, then who gave the authority to Sahabah to explain the meanings of mutashbah in their own words, openly use then with their literal meanings, and it is not limited to Sahabah, the entire era of Salaf use these verses with their literal meanings, how did they dare? Nobody have authority to assign a meaning with their own. So it is established that issue of mutashbah is baseless issue.

No, it is your deviance that believes that Allah is bound by space. It is your lack of understanding that has led to this extremely deviated belief of yours. The belief of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah - the majority of Muslims - has been that Allah is not contained within a space. He is not "above" the 'arsh. Allah exists without being limited by time and space.

The Salaf us Saaliheen are free from your deviant beliefs. One verse destroys your belief: ليس كمثله شيء. If you say that Allah is above the throne, then you have likened him to creation. If you say he has eyes, legs, and hands, you have likened him to creation.