Imam of Harams leading Esha while on travel

[afriki_haqq]

The trend is when the Imaams of the Haramain are touring other countries then they are given the Imaamat of Esha Salaat in the Masajid.

Is it not the right of the appointed Imaam to lead all Salaahs no matter how big a Shaykh, Imaam, Mufti might be present in the congregation?

Is it not the right of a local to perform Imaamat over a traveller?

[amr123]

Is it not the right of a local to perform Imaamat over a traveller?

I looked up in Reliance of a Traveller. In it there is a list given in which the order of preference of the Imam is mentioned.
-The first is the one with most Sacred knowledge then the one who memorized the Quran the most and so on.
-Also its mentioned a non-traveler is prefered to a traveller even if the traveller has more knowledge is Sacred Law and
-also the regular imam has more right to lead the prayer,
- but he can assign anyone else to lead the prayer. I have quoted it below:

"The imam assigned to a mosque or a person
living in the house where the prayer takes place,
even if only renting, takes precedence over
everyone on the list, from the most learned on
down, though he may select anyone else he wishes
to lead the prayer. The sultan and those under
him, of Islamic judges, regional governors, and so
on, take precedence over even the imam of the
mosque, the householder, and others."

[afriki_haqq]

I looked up in Reliance of a Traveller. In it there is a list given in which the order of preference of the Imam is mentioned.
-The first is the one with most Sacred knowledge then the one who memorized the Quran the most and so on.
-Also its mentioned a non-traveler is prefered to a traveller even if the traveller has more knowledge is Sacred Law and
-also the regular imam has more right to lead the prayer,
- but he can assign anyone else to lead the prayer. I have quoted it below:

"The imam assigned to a mosque or a person
living in the house where the prayer takes place,
even if only renting, takes precedence over
everyone on the list, from the most learned on
down, though he may select anyone else he wishes
to lead the prayer. The sultan and those under
him, of Islamic judges, regional governors, and so
on, take precedence over even the imam of the
mosque, the householder, and others."

So in this instance the Imaam-e-Kabah leads a large congregation at Esha Salaah and he performs 2 raka'ah qasr. Imagine the mass confusion.

Also, are the regular Imaams consulted or is it pushed down their throat by the event/tour organisers?

Lastly, wouldn't it be slightly better if Imaam-e-Kabah does a Quraan recital at a Masjid (like the Egyption Qurrah) instead of leading Salaah? Obviously, performing Salaah behind Imaam-e-Kabah does not increase the virtue and/or reward of your Salaah. There is virtue and reward in listening to Quraan out of Salaah as well.

And to add, this phenomena of the Imaams of the Haram visiting and touring is a recent development, at least in South Africa.

[Shahed-560]

The trend is when the Imaams of the Haramain are touring other countries then they are given the Imaamat of Esha Salaat in the Masajid.

Is it not the right of the appointed Imaam to lead all Salaahs no matter how big a Shaykh, Imaam, Mufti might be present in the congregation?

Is it not the right of a local to perform Imaamat over a traveller?

السلام عليكم

I believe it's out of love, respect and to honour an Imam of Haramain Sharafain that local Imam happily request the visiting dignitary to lead the Jamah and forgoes his own rights.

To avoid confusion, the local Imam should inform the congregation that Imam will pray only 2 Rakah and Muqtadees should complete the remaining two Rakah.

And to add, this phenomena of the Imaams of the Haram visiting and touring is a recent development, at least in South Africa.

You do have a point here, brother.

[SASLAMS]

So in this instance the Imaam-e-Kabah leads a large congregation at Esha Salaah and he performs 2 raka'ah qasr. Imagine the mass confusion.

Also, are the regular Imaams consulted or is it pushed down their throat by the event/tour organisers?

Lastly, wouldn't it be slightly better if Imaam-e-Kabah does a Quraan recital at a Masjid (like the Egyption Qurrah) instead of leading Salaah? Obviously, performing Salaah behind Imaam-e-Kabah does not increase the virtue and/or reward of your Salaah. There is virtue and reward in listening to Quraan out of Salaah as well.

And to add, this phenomena of the Imaams of the Haram visiting and touring is a recent development, at least in South Africa.

they not hanafi so the same does not always aply to them, they could have made jam' salah if they wanted to. & if they were to make qasr then he makes his two & we just add on another two. but he also has the choice of making a complete salah.

[afriki_haqq]

And to add, this phenomena of the Imaams of the Haram visiting and touring is a recent development, at least in South Africa.

Shaikh al-Shuraim, Imam of Ka'ba, is Visiting Deoband

And according to Mufti Husain Kadodia Shaykh Shuraim is a "hardcore wahhabi"

[afriki_haqq]

Got the following from our respected Hadhrat Mawlana AS Desai (HA)

THE HONOURABLE SHAIKH MAAHIR AL-MAIQILY— AN IMAAM OF MUSJIDUL HARAAM

18 Rabiuth Thaani 1433 – 12 March 2012

The honourable Shaikh Al-Maiqily, one of the Imaams of Musjidul Haraam in Makkah Muazzamah will be visiting South Africa on 19 March 2012. The Shaikh will be visiting a few Musaajid and most probably will be leading the Salaat.

The first issue to take note of is that in all probability the Sheikh will be a musaafir. The Imaams from Saudi Arabia generally perform the full four raka’ts. Therefore, the Salaat of the Hanafi Muqtadis will not be valid behind him should he be performing four raka’ts instead of two.

It is not a secret that the Imaams of the Haramain Shareef when visiting countries do so in the capacity as ambassadors of the faasiq Saudi Arabian regime. The honourable Sheikh is not on a holiday or sight-seeing mission. He is an express messenger of the Saudi regime. It is no secret that the objective of the Saudi regime is to extend its hegemony over the Muslims of the world. Whilst the hegemony of a single Muslim ruler (the Khalifah) over the entire Ummah of the world is a fundamental political and religious requisite of Islam, the Saudi king totally lacks the Shar’i qualification for such a lofty position.

If the Saudi king had been an Islamically qualified man, the entire Ummah of the world would gladly have submitted and would have offered allegiance to him. Unfortunately, the Saudi king is plodding the path of dhalaal (deviation) and has drifted far, very far from Siraatul Mustaqeem. In fact, his direction is the antithesis of Islam. However, in view of seeking to extend his hegemony over the Muslim nation of the world in the name of Islam, he has become a mudhil (one who leads Muslims astray from Siraatul Mustaqeem).

It is not a secret that Saudi Arabia is the slave of the U.S.A. The king being the surrogate of America is currently holding about 40,000 Muslims, including numerous Ulama, in his detention facilities where torture is a confirmed measure of the Saudi authorities. These horrendous crimes are committed by command of the U.S.A.
The list of Saudi crimes is long and heart-rending. It actively aids the U.S.A. in the furtherance of American plots against Islam and the Ummah. Thus, Saudi Arabia plays a leading role in the kufr interfaith movement which is in negation of Islam’s Da’wah Movement. Whilst the king proclaims himself to be Khaadimul Haramain (The Servant of the Two Holy Cities), his whole life and policies of government are in diametric conflict of a man who is supposed to be holding this lofty pedestal.


There is nothing in the Saudi king for Muslims to be proud of. He is viewed by the vast majority of the Ummah as an American lackey, a Zaalim (Oppressor) and a liability to the Deen. The honourable Imaam, Shaikh Al-Maiqily’s visit to South Africa should be viewed in the light of the aforementioned background. We are not asking Muslims to disrespect the Sheikh. However, it is a grave error to host the Sheikh and to ask him to lead the Salaat in the Musaajid.

It is an established fact that the Saudi regime does not attach itself to any of the Four Math-habs. In fact, they are anti-Math-hab. As such, by giving him prominence, Muslims here are displaying short-sightedness. They will be aiding the Salafi movement which Saudi Arabia is promoting. In terms of the beliefs of the Salafis, Muslims who follow the Math-habs, especially Hanafis, are kaafirs. However, the current atmosphere does not permit them to openly proclaim that we all are kaafirs. Salafis and Shiahs have in common the doctrine of Taqiyah (Holy hypocrisy) which condones, in fact promotes lies to conceal their true beliefs from the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’ah which is confined to the Four Math-habs in this age.

Salafis claim that our beliefs are akin to shirk and in conflict with Tauheed. But the political scenario in the world does not permit them to honestly declare their fatwa of kufr against Hanafis in particular.

By hosting the Saudi sheikhs, Muslims are undermining the Deen. While the freelancing methodology of the Salafis may be appealing to modernists who loathe the fetters which Allah’s Deen imposes on Muslims, the Ulama are expected to act with circumspection and not to embark on any action which undermines Taqleed of the Aimmah-e-Mujtahideen.

We must admonish and warn the Ulama to exercise restraint and not to fall into the snare of material and monetary gains offered by the Saudi regime in lieu of allegiance. Perks in the form of free Hajj tickets, 5 star accommodation, visas, cash, etc. are, sad to say, tempting to many sheikhs and molvis of this age. For the acquisition of such perks, some Ulama are prepared to barter away the Haqq by hosting the ambassadors of Saudi Arabia and promoting its objectives.

The Madaaris should exercise extreme caution in this matter. When a Madrasah hosts a Salafi or an ambassador of the corrupt, treacherous Saudi regime, the students are deflected from the Haqq. Salafi’ism will simply be regarded as not only another math-hab, but as the math-hab to follow. The nafs always inclines to ease and detests the chains of the Shariah. Many of these divinely imposed chains of the Math-habs are unshackled by Salafi’ism.

The shallow-mindedness of some Ulama is indeed lamentable. Despite being aware of the oppression, brutality and torture committed by America in the Lands of Islam – in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. – they feel no qualms about hosting a representative of a regime which aids and abets the U.S.A. to the hilt in the perpetration of its horrors on large segments of the Ummah. That Saudi Arabia is openly in collaboration with the U.S.A., is no secret. That Saudi Arabia extracted from a panel of establishment Ulama a fatwa to cloak the American invasion and destruction of Iraq with Shar’i acceptability and respectability, is not a secret. In all the haraam and brutal adventures of the U.S.A., Saudi Arabia has been its supporter. It is the duty of Muslims to clearly inform the Saudi authorities, their representatives (the Saudi Embassy) and their ambassadors such as the honourable Imaam of Musjidul Haraam, that Muslims view with concern and abhorrence the Saudi marriage with the U.S.A. The time is not far that this very master of Saudi Arabia (the U.S.A.) will be the cause for the dismantling of Saudi Arabia. The West has created Saudi Arabia and the West will destroy it.

The Saudi ambassador should be made aware of the disgust of the South African Muslim Ummah on the issue of the total destruction of all Islamic and holy relics in the Haramain Shareefain. Whilst all relics and historical signs of Islam have been demolished and the demolition is still in progress, the palace of the Yahudi, Ka’b bin Ashraf has been left intact by the command of America via UNESCO. The palace of the Yahudi is an ‘historical monument’ for the kuffaar, hence the Saudi regime has been ordered to retain it and treat it as such. On the other hand, the sacred homes of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), of the Sahaabah and many other holy relics have been destroyed.

Another disgraceful feature of the Hajj landscape, to which the attention of the honourable Shaikh should be drawn, is the filthy, immodest, western-style standing urinals in Mina and Muzdalifah for the Hujjaj. Whilst it is haraam for Muslims to urinate standing like asses for no valid reason, the Saudis are increasingly westernizing the already totally commercialized Hajj. These vile urinals are polluting the sacred aura and spirit which should accompany the important act of Hajj. Whilst the totally westernized brains of the Saudi king will not comprehend the abhorrence of the standing urinals, perhaps the Imaam will. In all likelihood the Imaam may be unaware of the existence of the abhorrent contraptions. His attention should be drawn to this very important issue. When the last Saudi Sheikh had visited South Africa, we had prepared a letter for him. However, the South African poodle attached to the Saudi embassy had refused to hand the letter to the Imaam.

For the sake of the Deen, it is incumbent on the trustees of all Musaajid to refuse the requests of the Saudi embassy for hosting the honourable Sheikh.

[afriki_haqq]

I have decided, after some deliberation, to take up this directly with Radio Islam - the official media partners of the tour (although it should be said that it seems like these exclusive media rights have been hijacked by the more glamorous and more accommodating Cii possibly with some financial incentives.).

The above article by Mawlana AS Desai has already raised eyebrows and here you can read about it on the Cii website by the lead journalist, Azhar Vadi.

With this in mind I have emailed the 'Ulama of Radio Islam - who need to clarify their stance.

Towards the end of last year the 'Ulama of Radio Islam and Jamiatul Ulama had organised a "weekend retreat" for the 'Ulama where amongst others they where briefed by specialists regarding two "deviant sects" i.e. Shi'ism and Salafism.

Will await any response (highly unlikely, experience) and keep this thread update.

[At Tayyib]

Is this the way to advise a ruler? Look at how Imam Al Ghazali advises in his book Counsel for the Kings.

Its not about disrespect. Deobandis have left the Saudi King to poached by the Salafi bandits. Its time our Ulema take up the way of Mujaddid Alf-e-Thani. The Akabir Ulema-e-Deoband were close to both the Turkish Khilafah and King Abdul Aziz

Does Maulana A.S. Desai know about the great service of King Abdul Aziz to Islam and Muslims? It was in the 70's that the Salafi bandits started getting close to the Ruler's court and Deobandis started to drift away.

Firaun was ready to accept the Deen of Musa . But he went back due to the advise of his trusted aide, Hamaan. Hamaan feared for his own perks. He advised Firaun that look at Musa and his followers. They are paupers. Don't accept the Deen of Musa you'll have to give up the luxuries of life. It is very important to choose the right advisers. Only if there are any righteous ones.

Mahmud of Ghazni had a trusted, pious and able Ayaaz to rely on.

[afriki_haqq]

This is what we have to deal with on a daily basis. The stooges who literally "run" and control the 'Ulama and when you do have free, independent, brave 'Ulama who speak for the haqq no matter what; this is the kind of abuse they have to endure (may Allah grant them istikamat):

Mohammed Wadee
So Majlis has begun his crazy rantings! even the Imaam of the Haram is not safe from his filthy accusations and mis-information! May Allah protect us from such evil person/s.
Yesterday at 20:16 • Like
Muhammad Jawwaad Akleker and 9 others like this.
Mohammed Wadee
Majlis is, without any doubt, the primary culprit in creating mischief within the South African Muslim Community. I very much doubt the he/ they are capable of saying any good! I never ever thought that one single human could spill so much of filth out of his mouth! حسبنا الله و نعم الوكيل
Yesterday at 20:24 • Like • 4
Muhammad Jawwaad Akleker
Ameen
Yesterday at 20:28 • Like
Mohammed Wadee
If only his 'newspaper' was free of Ayaat & Ahadith, it would be the perfect toilet paper!
Yesterday at 20:31 • Like
Sulayman Patel
100 % correct Sheikh Wadee Saheb
Yesterday at 20:47 • Like
Rashaad Patel
http://www.themajlis.co.za/index.php...cles&Itemid=27
THE HONOURABLE SHAIKH MAAHIR AL-MAIQILY— AN IMAAM OF MUSJIDUL HARAAM
Yesterday at 20:49 • Like
Rashaad Patel
this the article? Typicaly anti-Saudi...he hasnt deviated from his stance on the house of Saud..
Yesterday at 20:51 • Like
Aseelah Adam
I wish I never knew of this article!
Yesterday at 21:12 • Like • 1
Naseema Mall
I think he's a sad, lonely, bitter man
Yesterday at 21:40 • Like • 3
Ayesha Sardiwalla
May Allah guide him and protect us all from falling into the kind of extremesim that is diplayed by some individuals. May Allah purify our hearts and guide us upon the path that is closest to that of the prophet Muhammed alayhi salaam. aameen
Yesterday at 22:15 • Like • 2
Mohammed Wadee
The article is filled with lies and slander. Firstly: imaams of the haram recite 2 Rakaat on journey as per the sunnah. Mad man needs to get his facts right! As for the permissibility of reading 4 on a journey, this is something that 3 of the 4 great Imaams considered permissible. Strange how the very same mad man that claims following a mathab is compulsory degrades the very same leaders of the mathab. the rest of the article is based on the same thrash which is a reflection of the writers lack of intelligence and insanity!
Yesterday at 22:15 • Like
Riaad Akhalwaya
Yes, but sometimes even a 'madman' speaks some words of truth: "The list of Saudi crimes is long and heart-rending. It actively aids the U.S.A. in the furtherance of American plots against Islam and the Ummah." Even some Salafi ulema have pronounced kufr on the Saudi regime, for the above reasons.
Yesterday at 22:52 • Like
Safiyyah Surtee
Ok besides the usual drivel, can't believe I'm actually saying this, but he has two points which I agree with
1) the debauchery of the Saudi king/ruling family (which is ironic, he speaks of them being the antithesis of Shariah, yet when it comes to certain gender issues, majlis and house of saud are very much on the same page)
2) desecration of our legacy and holy sites in the name of bid'ah.
That said, it's the majlis, it's their thing to cause rife esp when an esteemed scholar is visiting ... No one takes them seriously so it shouldn't affect the program insha'allah
Yesterday at 22:53 • Like • 4
Riaad Akhalwaya
I'm a supporter of moderate Salafi reforms. But let's be honest and admit that the Saudi Salafi leadership is rotten to the core. Remember how Sh. Hudhaifi was fired and put under house arrest for daring to criticise the Regime in his Jumuah Khutbah? The same will happen to Sh. Maheer if he doesn't toe the line. Where is the credibility in scholars who are muzzled like this?
Yesterday at 23:19 • Like • 2
Yaseen Adam
Mujadeed fee asrinaa (sh majlis) has nothing else to do, bt cause fitnah and mischief in our land, I dnt see how ppl still takes from him, May Allah guide is all to the Haqq
Yesterday at 23:21 • Like
Yaseen Adam
Hazret desai the masaajied are phoning the embassy the embassy is not phoning them lol
Yesterday at 23:29 • Like • 1
Riaad Akhalwaya
Compare the harms posed by the Saudi Regime to the ummah, with that of the insignificant Majlis newspaper, and it is clear that there is no contest.
Yesterday at 23:36 • Like
Ebrahim Nana
Riaad .. So TRUE...
7 hours ago • Like
Suzi Ismail
@riyaad.watch out,ur comment will b deleted soon.
5 hours ago • Like
Muhammad Jawwaad Akleker
@suzi how embarrassing if it doesnt, hehe
5 hours ago • Like
Suzi Ismail
@naseema.r u sure u not talking about ur self.lol.
5 hours ago • Like
Muhamed-Nur Nordien
Salaam. All though I do not totally agree with the accusations , I do admire him for being honest and constant in promoting and saying what he believes. Unlike the hundreds of filthy opportunistic hypocrites who will run to shake the imams hand , be seen with him , some of them will call u to make private arrangements to see him and visit him in his hotel away from the keys of the public. Or invite him to talk for the sake of showing off , and then ( as now) curse salafies and the imams after the imam leaves ! I admire Majlis for always being honest and true to what they believe is the truth ! We might not agree with the majlis approach , but they say what is on their minds and that is comforting and honorable in a very strange way!
4 hours ago • Like • 2
Angels Adv O Kate
Slmz.to u all.please stop the salafi/ulema bashing...if u were on the saudi payroll,u 2 would have defended the saudi salafi regime..to the last dollar.
4 hours ago • Like • 1

Need I say any more?