Economy and All That

[transitory]

American Job Situation Worse Than Expected

Barak Hussain Obama said that US created millions of job in last 24 months.

Should be a good news? It is not.

He is using the the absolute figures to obliterate the trend.

And as always, what are the lessons for Ummah in these ups and down, or downs and downs?

Brother, don't be hoodwinked by these phony numbers, the biggest flaw in the way labor department calculates the unemployment is by assuming that those who have used up there unemployment benefits are no longer unemployed, irrespective of the fact whether those people get a job or not. So if someone is jobless for over a year they are no longer part of 8.2% unemployment. Similar flaws exist for the calculation of the inflation numbers, though US core inflation (without energy and foos) is around 2% (slightly less), but the prices are soaring everywhere in the supermarkets and Costcos (except for maybe clothes).

Here is the unemployment as tracked by shadowstats.com;

sgs-emp.gif

and here are inflation numbers;

alt-cpi-home2.gif

You might want to visit the following site to get some interesting prespective on current (mostly) US economics - http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/

As an Ummah, unfortunately I am not sure there is much we can do on a large scale, though there are some economic activity in Gulf countries and Malaysia but most of the new investments intruments are on shaky grounds wrt to Islamic guidelines of investments. From what I have heard, though Muslims are willing to invest in Islamic investment vehicles such as Sukuk bonds, etc, but they only want positive returns (profits). Actually most of these investors are looking for a better returns with their Islamic investment than what is generated by secular investment vehicles. You now have Ulemas such as Taqi Usmani Sb DB etc, who are revaluating their fatwas on Islamic mortgage (Murahabah/tawarruq), they now reckon that the whole Islamic mortgage model in the West is being incorrectly implemented and the way it has involved is not how/what they had invisoned. Wallahu allam!

It seems like we are living in a time of increasing volatility and ramphant inflation mixed with a lot of political uncertainity. It seems like the bankers have driven the global economy to the ground and apparently they are not done yet.

[Maripat]

Brother, don't be hoodwinked by these phony numbers, the biggest flaw in the way labor department calculates the unemployment is by assuming that those who have used up there unemployment benefits are no longer unemployed, irrespective of the fact whether those people get a job or not. So if someone is jobless for over a year they are no longer part of 8.2% unemployment. Similar flaws exist for the calculation of the inflation numbers, though US core inflation (without energy and foos) is around 2% (slightly less), but the prices are soaring everywhere in the supermarkets and Costcos (except for maybe clothes).

Here is the unemployment as tracked by shadowstats.com;

sgs-emp.gif

and here are inflation numbers;

alt-cpi-home2.gif

You might want to visit the following site to get some interesting prespective on current (mostly) US economics - http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/

I have complete faith in the US/European jugglery. The problem is that we ourselves are not smart enough to make use of the ground reality.

As an Ummah, unfortunately I am not sure there is much we can do on a large scale, ...

Let me tell you this- suppose Saudia and Turkey announce tomorrow that we are going to widen their economic, financial and business dealings with each other by a factor of two. You do not need to bring OIC into equation and you can see the shivers from London to New York. We just do not know our own strength.

... though there are some economic activity in Gulf countries and Malaysia but most of the new investments intruments are on shaky grounds wrt to Islamic guidelines of investments. From what I have heard, though Muslims are willing to invest in Islamic investment vehicles such as Sukuk bonds, etc, but they only want positive returns (profits). Actually most of these investors are looking for a better returns with their Islamic investment than what is generated by secular investment vehicles. You now have Ulemas such as Taqi Usmani Sb DB etc, who are revaluating their fatwas on Islamic mortgage (Murahabah/tawarruq), they now reckon that the whole Islamic mortgage model in the West is being incorrectly implemented and the way it has involved is not how/what they had invisoned. Wallahu allam!

It seems like we are living in a time of increasing volatility and ramphant inflation mixed with a lot of political uncertainity. It seems like the bankers have driven the global economy to the ground and apparently they are not done yet.

I'll take these things also as positive developments. My tiny wish for the moment is that there be more extensive discussion of the topic here at SF. Just look at the number of views of this thread and get some idea about our priorities and and our own confidence. As if these things either do not matter or if these do matter then these are too difficult to be managed by us mere Muslims.

[Usama2]

I just sat through a khutbah wherein the khateeb began with hadith in which the Prophet sought protection from debt. Then he discussed how the concept of currencies developed into interest based floating currencies. He mentioned that goldsmiths from the 16ht century got the idea to produce receipts for loan which could be used as currency and would be paid back with interest. This was because the accepted practice was businessmen, traders, and average people would give their gold to goldsmiths who would in return hold teh gold and issue receipts of their value. These receipts would be used around town but were eventually traded among their holders.

The original receipt for gold netted no profits, but printing receipts for loans which were not based on gold netted interest. From this, modern capitalist system was formed.

As for America's current state of affairs, from last I heard, there are still regional recession areas, like Florida, California, Michigan, and other states. California alone is a major economy, ranked within the top 15 economic markets in the world ( it was ranked 9th before the 2008 financial crisis).

Job growth is significant because investors use it as a measure of economic health.

[xs11ax]

I have not read through the thread so i apologise if this has already been said...

Brief explanation on how the riba based fiat currency works.

1. Privately owned companies such as the american federal reserve and the bank of england print money and issue digital money. The dont have to do anything to do this. I dont know why they are allowed to do this. This money is not backed up or supported by anything of value. It is just printed from thin air.

2. Governments buy this money at a high rate of interest. I dont know why governments buy this money. I dont know why governments dont just print their own money.

3. This money is filtered through the government and smaller banks until it reaches the lower classes, i.e us.

4. When this money reaches us this causes inflation and the price of goods go up because where there was once less money in the system, there is now more money in the system and the power of that money gets diluted.

5. The people who receive this money before us (goverments, corporations, upper classes) get to spend the money before the inflation kicks in so they are able to get more for that money than we do. When they get this money they can also buy into the 'futures' market. Example, they can buy with this newly produced money goods which will be produced in the future. Because they are buying now, they can buy at the lower rate before those goods are affected by inflation. Then when they actually take possession of those goods, or when those goods are actually produced, inflation kicks in and they a then sell those goods at the higher price even though they paid the lower price before it was affected by inflation.

6. This money has to be paid back with interest back to the issuing bank. The government taxes the common people to pay back this money to the privately owned banks. The common people do not benefit from this newly produced money at all. The common people bear the brunt of inflation that this newly printed money caused. And yet it is the common people that has to pay back the money AND the interest that this money was lent on.

7. This money is only ever printed and created by the private banking corporations. To get this money it has to be borrowed from these banks. When these banks lend the money THEY ALWAYS CHARGE INTEREST!...This means that it is impossible to ever pay them back.

Example - Imagine only i can print and produce money. If i lend you £100 pounds and say to you i want £150 back, where are you meant to get the extra £50 from when i am the only one that can issue this money? If you get the extra £50 from someone else then where did he get the £50 from? He got it from me and i charged him interest on it too. So where does he get the money to pay me? From someone else? Even that money from someone else is produced and issued by me and i dont want the initial sum but i want the interest too. So it is impossible for everyone to pay my money and interest back to me.

Through this system the bankers control governments and armies. They make the governments dependent on them. Then the countries will war against another in order to steal their resources and money of another so that they can lower their debts with the private bankers. If they dont lower their debts then the private bankers can refuse to issue any money to them and their fake economy will become weak in the face of the other fake economy of another country. Then the bankers will play favourites with another country and pit one country against another until the country who has lost favour with them become subdued and then concede control to the bankers who will then go on to rape the country and its people.


This is briefly how i have understood this system of ribah based economy.


In my opinion, one of the biggest fitnah upon this earth at the moment is the fitnah of the usury based fiat currency system that EVERYONE is affected by. I believe that this fiat currency system is one of the forerunners of the dajjal and directly supports the oppression that is carried out by the kuffar and even by the muslims who support and side with them.

With this usury based fiat currency system the kuffar have held a monopoly over the economies, resources, countries and people of the world. The banking corporations that issue this currency are the ones that benefit from it the most and then those who give them the support and resources to impose this system are the next to benefit.

As muslims we should be completely opposed to this system of usury and oppression. We should actively physically and vocally fight against this system. We should sabotage this system in whatever way we can. We should not have anything to do with this system at all. I know it is easier said than done, but at least we should educate ourselves and others about it.

I would really like for a huge group of people to go to the bank of england with their money and ask for that money to be cashed in. There is a statement on every bank of england banknote that says, "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds". I wonder what the bank will give seeing that there is no real value or anything to back up the value of the note.

Allah's lanat on them all.

[xs11ax]

just found this on their website...

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/bankn...ut/faqs.aspx#2

What is the Bank’s “Promise to Pay”?
The words "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five [ten/twenty/fifty] pounds" date from long ago when our notes represented deposits of gold. At that time, a member of the public could exchange one of our banknotes for gold to the same value. For example, a £5 note could be exchanged for five gold coins, called sovereigns. But the value of the pound has not been linked to gold for many years, so the meaning of the promise to pay has changed. Exchange into gold is no longer possible and Bank of England notes can only be exchanged for other Bank of England notes of the same face value. Public trust in the pound is now maintained by the operation of monetary policy, the objective of which is price stability.


In other words we say that it is money, so just believe that it is money and it will be money.
Just like in a game of monopoly, in the game you believe the fake money is money, so everyone accepts that it is money.

[Maripat]

Shaikh Imran Hosein had some thing about this change from Gold to paper notes transition. It will be worthwhile to recap that here.

And it is nice that brother Usama got to listen to a Khutbah where some thing tangible was mentioned otherwise get to hear only the sensitized Khutbah.

I wonder what is the stand of scholars on paper currency.

Also I heard that US Federal Reserve is a private company.

[xs11ax]

I wonder what is the stand of scholars on paper currency.

Not many people know and understand how todays ribah based economy works, including most ulama.

Also I heard that US Federal Reserve is a private company.

ALL banks that issue money in line with the current system are privately owned companies. Its not a conspiracy or a big secret. It just doesnt get publicised much and when it is explained, the explanations are made too complicated for most to get their heads around it and also their are glaring holes in the explanations that do not get covered.

Personally, i THINK that the reason why the west are against communist countries is only because such countries are out of their system of economy, and thus those countries and their economies cannot be manipulated and controlled.

[Maripat]

Japan is a curious phenomenon.

It is east, of course the religion remains a religion of convenience, but it has given the west a run for its money.

Of course there might be lessons for Muslims in its example but that will be left to discerning readers.

At the moment the curiosity is the BBC report:

Japan must restart two nuclear reactors to protect the country's economy and livelihoods, Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda has said in a televised broadcast.

Clearly the Tsunami was strong enough to rattle this giant of an economy.

[mh16388]

please see this

there is no question of islamic banking being 'harmful' to economy. you will notice they are opposing it because it is based on Muslim religious texts. and hence a religious commandment. i always say secularists are the least tolerant people on this planet yet they masquerade as promoters of 'free speech'.

[mh16388]

Personally, i THINK that the reason why the west are against communist countries is only because such countries are out of their system of economy, and thus those countries and their economies cannot be manipulated and controlled.

aoa,
you hit the nail on the head with that one!