Reaching out to the Left - Answering Secularism, Liberalism and Modernism

**mh16388** · 23-03-2012, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Maripat

Are you looking for any specific book akhi?
Wassalam

ws,
yes.i would like some books/lectures outlining the human rights charter given by islam, rights of non-muslims in a muslim country, rights of zindeeq in a muslim country,a detailed study on the prohibition of interest and usury and the permissiveness of the Islamic banking in pakistan (only a few days ago i was made aware that mufti taqi uthmani's endorsement of islamic banking is basically halal riba. i had no solid answer) and some basics or advanced study of chain of transmittors (how the saheeh sitta and other islamic texts make their way through to us without error).
i hope you realize why i am asking.

**Maripat** · 23-03-2012, 01:53 PM

For the Islamic charter for the things of modern interest I shall recommend Professor Muhammed Hamidullah (of Paris)'s book The Life and Works of Prophet of Islam. Just recently the Urdu translation of its latest edition was published in Pakistan. For economics related questions I think you should first understand what Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahab (DB) says. And please just ignore the critics - take them as enemies of Islam. I know a famous Islamic economist and I can not tell you little he inspires me.

**mh16388** · 24-03-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

For the Islamic charter for the things of modern interest I shall recommend Professor Muhammed Hamidullah (of Paris)'s book The Life and Works of Prophet of Islam. Just recently the Urdu translation of its latest edition was published in Pakistan.

aoa,
bought the book. it says Volume I while the store owner assured me several books come with that ambiguous title and have just one 'volume' not many. i hope ive got the full work not half of it.read some of it.

**Maripat** · 25-03-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by mh16388

aoa,
bought the book. it says Volume I while the store owner assured me several books come with that ambiguous title and have just one 'volume' not many. i hope ive got the full work not half of it.read some of it.

Which one did you buy - Urdu or English? I'd like to compare with my copies -please give the full title.
Wassalam

**Abu Zakir** · 25-03-2012, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

For economics related questions I think you should first understand what Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahab (DB) says. And please just ignore the critics - take them as enemies of Islam. I know a famous Islamic economist and I can not tell you little he inspires me.

Not everyone who criticises Mufti Taqi Usmani is the enemy of Islam...they might be on the truth and the Mufti might be wrong. My understanding is that the Mufti allows Islamic Banking intending to make it a step towards true halal...for he admits that it is not really halal now. So his intentions are noble, however the criticisers are saying this is not a step towards halal rather it is a step towards subverting the halal and making the haram into acceptable or 'Islamic'.

**Maripat** · 25-03-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Abu Zakir

Not everyone who criticises Mufti Taqi Usmani is the enemy of Islam...they might be on the truth and the Mufti might be wrong. My understanding is that the Mufti allows Islamic Banking intending to make it a step towards true halal...for he admits that it is not really halal now. So his intentions are noble, however the criticisers are saying this is not a step towards halal rather it is a step towards subverting the halal and making the haram into acceptable or 'Islamic'.

Clearly his detractors are misrepresenting him.

**Abu Zakir** · 25-03-2012, 02:07 PM

Secularism is underpinned by one basic view, that the world is not governed by a God, that men make their own rules and that we humans can achieve everlasting peace, success and freedom in this world.

Yet this is a big lie and only intellectually lazy people will believe in this foolishness today.

Secularism have given us two major world wars, a cold war and numerous other genocides around the world. Men cannot govern nor can they make up their own laws because man is not only selfish but also powerless when he becomes separated from the divine power. Even if many clever men were to get together to try to come up with a brilliant plan and law, they would fail miserably because they cannot see and control everything and if they try to who wants to live in a world like that? Where a tiny minority and their minions watch you all the time and tell you how to live. Their claims of freedom lead to slavery. Pay your taxes, pay interest on your debts, work twice as hard for less pay...keep voting for the same lying and cheating politicians hoping things will change. They will not.

**Abu Zakir** · 25-03-2012, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Maripat

Clearly his detractors are misrepresenting him.

Maybe some of them do misrepresent him, but not everyone. I have seen quotes by the mufti where he admits some of the financial instruments used by 'Islamic banks' and certified as based on 'sunnah' are in fact trade patterns not financial instruments.

For instance in the time of the sahaba a type of selling included the seller informing the buyer the cost price of the product being sold, plus any transport and other costs incurred including the mark up or profit margin. The buyer could then decide to either buy or to refrain.

The above sunnah way has been converted today into the Islamic Bank practice of the borrower selecting a house to buy, the bank agreeing to buy it on their behalf, and then re-selling the house to the borrower at a much higher price. These are 2 contracts in 1, and such practices are not allowed. The bank buying it at a lower price and selling at a higher price on credit is not 1 contract it is 2, and this has very little resemblance to the practice by the sahaba. Is it halal, no, but Islamic bankers are selling it as 'halal'.

What should Muslims do? If they refuse to join in, they lose their wealth to bankers anyway. Maybe we should refuse to play by their rules and reject the whole fiat money banking system. We should get together and build our own halal economic way with real gold and silver currency. We should be able to do it if we get together and talk about it, spread the knowledge and do something about it.

**sudoku** · 25-03-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Abu Zakir

Not everyone who criticises Mufti Taqi Usmani is the enemy of Islam...they might be on the truth and the Mufti might be wrong. My understanding is that the Mufti allows Islamic Banking intending to make it a step towards true halal...for he admits that it is not really halal now. So his intentions are noble, however the criticisers are saying this is not a step towards halal rather it is a step towards subverting the halal and making the haram into acceptable or 'Islamic'.

Perhaps it is also the way the criticisors word their criticizm.

For example, Mufti Ebrahim Desai does not wholy agree as well. However, his answer is very respectful.

Here it is -> LINK

**Maripat** · 25-03-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Abu Zakir

Maybe some of them do misrepresent him, but not everyone. I have seen quotes by the mufti where he admits some of the financial instruments used by 'Islamic banks' and certified as based on 'sunnah' are in fact trade patterns not financial instruments.

For instance in the time of the sahaba a type of selling included the seller informing the buyer the cost price of the product being sold, plus any transport and other costs incurred including the mark up or profit margin. The buyer could then decide to either buy or to refrain.

The above sunnah way has been converted today into the Islamic Bank practice of the borrower selecting a house to buy, the bank agreeing to buy it on their behalf, and then re-selling the house to the borrower at a much higher price. These are 2 contracts in 1, and such practices are not allowed. The bank buying it at a lower price and selling at a higher price on credit is not 1 contract it is 2, and this has very little resemblance to the practice by the sahaba. Is it halal, no, but Islamic bankers are selling it as 'halal'.

What should Muslims do? If they refuse to join in, they lose their wealth to bankers anyway. Maybe we should refuse to play by their rules and reject the whole fiat money banking system. We should get together and build our own halal economic way with real gold and silver currency. We should be able to do it if we get together and talk about it, spread the knowledge and do something about it.

Though I fail to get the hint as to how Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) is in error here but I do appreciate that you have things to add on it. Economics and finance are not my cup of tea but I am very much concerned with them. Kindly contribute to this thread and also consider if you can start a blog about these matters. This is essentially and desperately needed.