hitting your wife

**Saqqib_Ali** · 02-04-2012, 03:06 PM

(by Kuffs___Post #32) These 3 quotes from your comment to me is sexist as you are implying WOMEN = CHILDREN under men. (Post #59) I don't understand how you can without backing an eyelid say that women = children under men.

I can quote tens of occasions when women have been grouped with children but if I mention anyone of them, you will just say this “was because of this” or “this was because of that” but women are also grouped with men on many occasions, to which I don’t think many would object to. But here, on this topic I grouped women with children, why?

"Men are in charge of, they have authority over, women, disciplining them and keeping them in check" according to the tafsir of al-Jalalayn of Quran 4:34.

Are men not responsible for children by "disciplining them and keeping them in check"? So here is where the similarity is and thus the examples used. And also I can't see why one should take offence at this association, children are highly prized in Islam "Wealth and children are the adornments of the life of this world….” Qur’an 18:46.

Also, here I specifically like to indulge in this accusation of SEXISM.

Sexism is a concept of the western secularists and is unrecognized in the muslim mentality or understanding. The use of such a term in this conversation clearly points to where the poster is getting his influence from.

Now, the oxford dictionary defines sexism as “prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex”.
If this is sexism then isn’t God himself sexist as he say says men are in charge of women, men can marry four while women can’t, 2 women witnesses for one male witness etc etc… Islam clearly defines roles according to gender which in the secular west would be defined as sexism. So this accusation of sexism doesn’t even make sense from a muslim.

The reason for this seemingly “offended” demeanour that is being portrayed by the poster is because he is trying to cling even to straws by using the sexism “card”(lol), but such a card doesn’t exist is islam. Maybe it does in the eyes of the modern ultra-moderate muslim. Men in islam are respected in a certain way and women in islam are also respected but in their own ways.

**Abdul1234** · 02-04-2012, 04:05 PM

Saqqib_Ali it is simply a reality the fact that I have never personally known a truly religious Muslim who beat their wife and nothing you say can change that fact - you mention some Sheikhs whose books declare it lawful (within very fine boundaries and in a very limited way and as a last resort) but the fact that they wrote these things in their books does not mean that they did it personally - and even if they did, which I doubt - they are not amongst the Muslims that I have personally known...:so the fact that I have never personally known a truly religious Muslim who beat their wife is not changed...I'm sorry that it upsets you so much...may Allah sooth your heart and bless you with guidance in every way...

**Acacia** · 02-04-2012, 04:18 PM

We have already had a scholar comment under this thread.

Now... May I request that we stop this back and forth now? It is not very becoming of us to be saying the same thing in different ways and arguing back and forth looking for details to continue arguing about... perhaps waiting for the other to surrender?

I request that this boxing match of words end. That way, we all win.

Brothers, please take a few minutes to share a little positivity here towards one-another - a word of peace, encouragement, good-will.

May Allah (SWT) increase peace and good will between us all. Ameen.

**mh16388** · 02-04-2012, 04:28 PM

some brothers on this thread need to be banned (i hope sister sudoku is reading this)...and then this thread should be closed and transported to in-depth fiqh (aka the part of forum where most people hardly go)

**sudoku** · 02-04-2012, 04:34 PM

^ I'll take your concern under consideration.

for voicing them. You may wish to also report the posts which you find offensive.

The thread I shall move

**Acacia** · 02-04-2012, 04:45 PM

Insha'Allah noone needs to be banned. Insha'Allah we can mediate our own words so as not to cause offence to others. Insha'Allah when we do realize we've become entangled, we can step back out and recognize it and rectify. Insha'Allah we can be peaceful towards one another.

If I have caused hurt to any brother or sister here, I truly apologize. I'm sure we've all come here with the good intention of taking part in healthy dialogue and discussions, not to cause one another any hurt. Alhamdulillah for this forum where so many Muslims from around the world can share thoughts, knowledge and news.

I wish you all peace and good health from Allah (SWT).

**white-falcon** · 02-04-2012, 04:46 PM

hitting wife in Islam is not Allowed

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

It is not generally permitted to hit one's wife, and the overwhelming instances of hitting that take place in marriages are not only haram but also entail abuse, wrongdoing (dhulm), and a turning away from the example of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), who often instructed his companions not to hit their wives, and who said, when he heard about men who hit their wives, "The best of you are the best to your spouses, and I am the best of you to their spouse." The wives of the Prophet, including A'isha (Allah be pleased with her), relate that he never hit any of his wives.

But what about the Qur'anic Verse?

Yes, the Qur'anic verse [4.34] does give permission to hit. But, as Imam Tahawi mentions in Mushkil al-Athar [3.341-345], this is understood--when considered with the texts interdicting and discouraging hitting--to refer to hitting that is within limits, when the situation calls for it. Sultan al-Ulama Izz Ibn Abd al-Salam is quoted by a number of authorities, including Ibn Allan al-Bakri in his Sharh Riyad al-Salihin, as mentioning that the "hitting" that is conditionally permitted is only permitted when one is reasonably sure that there will be general benefit in it (and this benefit is greater than the associated harms).

Given the changes in societies, cultures, and human dynamics, as well as most people acting with ignorance and emotion rather than doing so according to the dictates of Revelation and reason, this would entail that the general ruling is impermissibility, except when it is in fact: (a) within limits; (b) done when the benefit is greater than the harm--for in such cases it will be an acceptance of lesser harm to avoid greater harm.

At the level of healthy marital relations, the Qur'an commanded us to live together with excellence, to be good to each other, to communicate and consult in positive ways, and for the underlying impetus in marital dealings to be love and mercy. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) gave us a living commentary on how to do this, in his beautiful and exemplary marriage life.

Whoever seeks success and good, the way is clear. Whoever seeks otherwise, let them do otherwise.

And Allah alone gives success.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani

**mh16388** · 02-04-2012, 05:07 PM

lol...thanks for taking it under consideration...and i dont read certain brothers' posts wherever i see their name...so i cldnt report as offensive, sorry : s

**Saqqib_Ali** · 02-04-2012, 05:57 PM

Many people don't hesitate to make haram what allah has made halal or make halal what he has made haram. In the same category come people who refuse to admit what allah has made haram or what he has made halal, It is shameful if this dishonesty is influenced by the will to please the kuffar.

In Quran 2:41-42 Allah says "And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price: and fear Me, and Me alone. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). (42)"

but people seem to be doing exactly that, selling the deen for a measly price/gain, in this instance appeasing the kuffar.

For comparison, according to the logic some people are presenting on this thread, Islam also doesn't allow polygamy**(see below)

**Islam only allows POLYGANY and only when the man can treat all wives equally.

You see with political answers to "difficult" questions we can all dodge the issue but God in the Qur'an clearly instructs us NOT to cover the truth with falsehood. And also to be confident in what was sent down and ONLY fear him, no one else, not man, not woman. nor an animal or any beast, nor the elements, nor the sky, because......

...... "Allah hus samad".

**Abdul1234** · 02-04-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by white-falcon

hitting wife in Islam is not Allowed

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

It is not generally permitted to hit one's wife, and the overwhelming instances of hitting that take place in marriages are not only haram but also entail abuse, wrongdoing (dhulm), and a turning away from the example of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), who often instructed his companions not to hit their wives, and who said, when he heard about men who hit their wives, "The best of you are the best to your spouses, and I am the best of you to their spouse." The wives of the Prophet, including A'isha (Allah be pleased with her), relate that he never hit any of his wives.

But what about the Qur'anic Verse?

Yes, the Qur'anic verse [4.34] does give permission to hit. But, as Imam Tahawi mentions in Mushkil al-Athar [3.341-345], this is understood--when considered with the texts interdicting and discouraging hitting--to refer to hitting that is within limits, when the situation calls for it. Sultan al-Ulama Izz Ibn Abd al-Salam is quoted by a number of authorities, including Ibn Allan al-Bakri in his Sharh Riyad al-Salihin, as mentioning that the "hitting" that is conditionally permitted is only permitted when one is reasonably sure that there will be general benefit in it (and this benefit is greater than the associated harms).

Given the changes in societies, cultures, and human dynamics, as well as most people acting with ignorance and emotion rather than doing so according to the dictates of Revelation and reason, this would entail that the general ruling is impermissibility, except when it is in fact: (a) within limits; (b) done when the benefit is greater than the harm--for in such cases it will be an acceptance of lesser harm to avoid greater harm.

At the level of healthy marital relations, the Qur'an commanded us to live together with excellence, to be good to each other, to communicate and consult in positive ways, and for the underlying impetus in marital dealings to be love and mercy. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) gave us a living commentary on how to do this, in his beautiful and exemplary marriage life.

Whoever seeks success and good, the way is clear. Whoever seeks otherwise, let them do otherwise.

And Allah alone gives success.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani

brother Sabbiq,

Faraz Rabbani is only saying strongly what most Sheikh are saying gently - the key to this is the thing that every scholar that I have read is communicating - as the Sheikh says

It is not generally permitted to hit one's wife - Yes, the Qur'anic verse [4.34] does give permission to hit. But, as Imam Tahawi mentions in Mushkil al-Athar [3.341-345], this is understood--when considered with the texts interdicting and discouraging hitting--to refer to hitting that is within limits, when the situation calls for it. Sultan al-Ulama Izz Ibn Abd al-Salam is quoted by a number of authorities, including Ibn Allan al-Bakri in his Sharh Riyad al-Salihin, as mentioning that the "hitting" that is conditionally permitted is only permitted when one is reasonably sure that there will be general benefit in it (and this benefit is greater than the associated harms).

and this hitting isn't thumping, or slamming against a wall, or pulling someone round a room by their hair, or tweaking a nose hard or the other horrible things that go on in an abusive marriage, which is what any non-Muslim reader of this thread may think that you are trying to justify - this allowed hitting is a symbolic thing.

I really cannot understand why you are spending so much energy trying to justify doing something that hasn't been absolutely forbidden, but which the Prophet (saws) didn't like and which he personally did not do.

let it go brother.