Fatawa of the Ottoman Scholar Shaykh al-Islam Abu Su'ud

[Ansari]

Prayer should be repeated if the Imam deems dancing as halal:

352. Mes’ele Zeyd varıp Amr-i imama uyup namazı cemâ'atle kılsa, Amr devranla zikr eden sûfîlerden olsa, Zeyd-i mezbur namazı iade eylemek lâzım mıdır?

Elcevap: Lâzımdır, ol sûfîler raksa "helâldir" diyenlerden ise. [382]

From: M.Ertugrul Duzdag, Ebussuud fetvalari isigindi 16 asir

[Ahmad_shakeel]

salam,

translate it

[Acacia]

[ it is in old Turkish but to expand on brother Ansari's summary/jist of the fatwa: if a person prays behind an imam who is a sufi who deems dancing halal, then he must repeat his prayer.

I assume the 'sufi raks' refers to whirling dervishes though I can not be certain. Perhaps brother Ansari can provide a clearer definition. ]

[Hafiz Gee]

I would be interested to know if this was a popular opinion amongst the ottoman hanafis, but i sorta doubt that.

[Abu Yunus]

The early Ottomans were different from the late Ottomans.

[Ansari]

Another fatwa where he says that the person who views spinning around as worship, is an apostate. If not, then he is a faasiq:

348. Mes’ele Sûfî adına olan Zeyd zikr ederken devran edip, ettiği devrânı ibâdet addeylese, nikâhı sahih zebîhası helâl olur mu?

Elcevap: Devranı ibâdet addeyleyicek mürteddir, asla müslimeden zimmiyeden avret nikahlamak mümkün değil, zebîhası meyyitedir. Amma ibâdet addetmeyip, mubah i'tikâd edip devran ederse mürted değildir. Tâ'atten hâriç fâsıktır. Şâir feseka gibidir, menkûhası tefrik olunmaz, zebîhası yenir. [377]

Download link of the book: http://www.darulkitap.com/indir/seyh...g-enderun.html

[Hafiz Gee]

Another fatwa where he says that the person who views spinning around as worship, is an apostate. If not, then he is a faasiq:

348. Mes’ele Sûfî adına olan Zeyd zikr ederken devran edip, ettiği devrânı ibâdet addeylese, nikâhı sahih zebîhası helâl olur mu?

Elcevap: Devranı ibâdet addeyleyicek mürteddir, asla müslimeden zimmiyeden avret nikahlamak mümkün değil, zebîhası meyyitedir. Amma ibâdet addetmeyip, mubah i'tikâd edip devran ederse mürted değildir. Tâ'atten hâriç fâsıktır. Şâir feseka gibidir, menkûhası tefrik olunmaz, zebîhası yenir. [377]

Download link of the book: http://www.darulkitap.com/indir/seyh...g-enderun.html

that's a little extreme no?

[Ansari]

I read the same in the fatawa of the Maliki scholar al-Wansharisi (d. 914 h.) called al-mi'yar. He mentions that the sufi dance is against the ijma' which is kufr, and also says the person should be killed if he considers it worship. (1/161)

Download link: http://archive.org/download/Miyar_Muerib/meiaar01.pdf

[Hafiz Gee]

does this raks refer just to "whirling" or whatever?

or does it also refer to swaying while making dhikr during "hadra".

[Acacia]

I don't know how reliable this source is but it seems good to me. According to it, raks refers to the movement of the hands and feet to a tempo. There is a differentiation between intending to do it (raks) and the unintentional movement 'vecd.' Raks is noted as sinful whereas vecd is not.