Who are the "Elders"??

[Shuayb Abdul-Khaaliq]

In TJ the term "Elders" is used often. For example:

- "The elders want us to do/not do such and such";
- "We will have to ask to the elders before we can make a decision on such and such";
- "As per the elders...";
- "Well, I understand you want to do it this way, but the elders want it done that way";
- "What you're saying may be true, but we have never heard it in such a way from the elders";
- "Our elders have come up with a tarteeb (schedule/routine) for such and such";
- etc etc.

I would like to ask, to those who know, who are the "elders" exactly and what exactly is their role in TJ? I mean, it is obvious that they are the ones "in-charge", yes, but I am looking for a bit more details, just out of curiosity and to Insha'Allah increase my knowledge about how TJ works.

The thing is, that at each progressive step of the process, starting from the local Masjid, to Halqa (area) mashwara (meeting), to City mashwara, etc, I have seen "the elders" mentioned; however (as far as I know), I have never actually seen an elder. I don't mean that in the literal sense as, Subhan'Allah, a large number of brothers present at TJ gatherings are often "elders" (as far as age, whiteness/greyness of hair and beard [], etc)... however, even they seem to always want to "check with the elders". Subhan'Allah, how old can we get??

Also, I guess my next question would be, how does one "become" an elder? In addition to other qualifications, do you have to be "old", or does that not matter as much? I would presume that one can spend an entire lifetime trying to be an "elder" and not even scratch the surface of it.

I don't mean any of this in a "smart" or "sarcastic" manner so, please don't take it as such, and forgive me if it comes across as such. I have just been hearing this stuff for a while and am genuinely curious. I am not that heavily involved with TJ yet so I know my knowledge and perception is very, very off and skewed. I know it's gotta "end" somewhere to where we actually physically reach an "elder" and then they can help us with whatever 'issue' we may be needing their help on... or do they normally like to work from "behind the scenes" or something?

I guess my last question would be... has anyone ever seen an Elder??

Waiting for someone of knowledge to enlighten me Insha'Allah.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

[sudoku]

If you go Nizamuddin or Raiwind, there you shall find the enigmatic elders . Most of them are quite old and do have health problems, hence they do not travel much.

Although Ml Sa'd is young, so he does travel. I think he may be coming to South Africa this year.

[Maripat]

In TJ the term "Elders" is used often. For example:

- "The elders want us to do/not do such and such";
- "We will have to ask to the elders before we can make a decision on such and such";
- "As per the elders...";
- "Well, I understand you want to do it this way, but the elders want it done that way";
- "What you're saying may be true, but we have never heard it in such a way from the elders";
- "Our elders have come up with a tarteeb (schedule/routine) for such and such";
- etc etc.

I would like to ask, to those who know, who are the "elders" exactly and what exactly is their role in TJ? I mean, it is obvious that they are the ones "in-charge", yes, but I am looking for a bit more details, just out of curiosity and to Insha'Allah increase my knowledge about how TJ works.

When we use the phrase in-charge two things might be involved.
The person has lots of power and facilities and perks.
This is how the worldly people think.
Then there is the another aspect - that he has taken up some responsibility.
This is how a Muslim thinks - or is supposed to think.

This should answer to some extent the quote-unquote that you are using before and after the composte word in-charge.

Actual in-charge is Allah(SWT) only. Now you can see how miserable the worldly terminology is when we try to use it to explain things Islamic?

The thing is, that at each progressive step of the process, starting from the local Masjid, to Halqa (area) mashwara (meeting), to City mashwara, etc, I have seen "the elders" mentioned; however (as far as I know), I have never actually seen an elder. I don't mean that in the literal sense as, Subhan'Allah, a large number of brothers present at TJ gatherings are often "elders" (as far as age, whiteness/greyness of hair and beard [], etc)... however, even they seem to always want to "check with the elders". Subhan'Allah, how old can we get??

Please do not get confused. It is easy. Responsibility is the most back breaking creation of Allah(SWT). We (actually our nafs) wants to have freedom and we feel constrained by any authority. On the contrary we should feel lucky because we have our elders around us. If they are not around then the responsibility falls on us - that is when it pinches. There are unscrupulous people in the world who rush head on to positions of power and do indulge in enjoyments part only. They do great damage to society and they destroy their hereafter. For a Muslim the real reward is in hereafter so they take up responsibility to make their akhirah.
Jannah has been covered by hard work and restraining our nafs to be under some one else's supervision, an elder's supervision, is hard work and thus it is a path to Jannah.

Also, I guess my next question would be, how does one "become" an elder? In addition to other qualifications, do you have to be "old", or does that not matter as much? I would presume that one can spend an entire lifetime trying to be an "elder" and not even scratch the surface of it.

Do you want to be an elder right now? I suppose you shall say no and that is where I shall leave it.
After that you are right about the surface scratching. So there - you know it already.
To be an elder looks like lot of power, facility, honour and fun but in reality it is all responsibility and very little else.

I don't mean any of this in a "smart" or "sarcastic" manner so, please don't take it as such, and forgive me if it comes across as such. I have just been hearing this stuff for a while and am genuinely curious. I am not that heavily involved with TJ yet so I know my knowledge and perception is very, very off and skewed.

It is understandable - that is normal for any one with modern education background. But if you have not seen any elder till now then a better thing to do will be to blame yourself and head for the nearest Markaz - even if it is state Markaz.

I know it's gotta "end" somewhere to where we actually physically reach an "elder" and then they can help us with whatever 'issue' we may be needing their help on... or do they normally like to work from "behind the scenes" or something?

People do reach them for solving problems. There is no proper tolets in Masjid A is it proper to send a foreign Jama-at to that Mosque? A: No. Etc.
But I know you are not thinking of such problems. You perhaps might be thinking of intellectual problems. For that you talk to Scholars. Elders have higher things to give us. Empty you mind completely before you meet any one of them - you shall return completely filled. Make it a rule for your life time. I personally try to do that - this is a prescription from my grand Shaikh (RA).

I guess my last question would be... has anyone ever seen an Elder??

Waiting for someone of knowledge to enlighten me Insha'Allah.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

You perhaps mean the Elders of Jama-at.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Usman Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Sanaullah Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Abdul Aleem Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Nadir Ali Khan Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Khalid Siddiqui Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Fateh Muhammed Sahab (DB)? Yes.
Have I met Hazrat Professor Sagheeruddin Sahab (DB)? Yes.
And there are others. Some of them work at Nizamuddin Markaz and others for our local Markaz.

I hope I have not dis-enlightened you!
Wassalam

[Abu_Tamim]

In TJ the term "Elders" is used often. For example:

- "The elders want us to do/not do such and such";
- "We will have to ask to the elders before we can make a decision on such and such";
- "As per the elders...";
- "Well, I understand you want to do it this way, but the elders want it done that way";
- "What you're saying may be true, but we have never heard it in such a way from the elders";
- "Our elders have come up with a tarteeb (schedule/routine) for such and such";
- etc etc.

I would like to ask, to those who know, who are the "elders" exactly and what exactly is their role in TJ? I mean, it is obvious that they are the ones "in-charge", yes, but I am looking for a bit more details, just out of curiosity and to Insha'Allah increase my knowledge about how TJ works.

The thing is, that at each progressive step of the process, starting from the local Masjid, to Halqa (area) mashwara (meeting), to City mashwara, etc, I have seen "the elders" mentioned; however (as far as I know), I have never actually seen an elder. I don't mean that in the literal sense as, Subhan'Allah, a large number of brothers present at TJ gatherings are often "elders" (as far as age, whiteness/greyness of hair and beard [], etc)... however, even they seem to always want to "check with the elders". Subhan'Allah, how old can we get??

Also, I guess my next question would be, how does one "become" an elder? In addition to other qualifications, do you have to be "old", or does that not matter as much? I would presume that one can spend an entire lifetime trying to be an "elder" and not even scratch the surface of it.

I don't mean any of this in a "smart" or "sarcastic" manner so, please don't take it as such, and forgive me if it comes across as such. I have just been hearing this stuff for a while and am genuinely curious. I am not that heavily involved with TJ yet so I know my knowledge and perception is very, very off and skewed. I know it's gotta "end" somewhere to where we actually physically reach an "elder" and then they can help us with whatever 'issue' we may be needing their help on... or do they normally like to work from "behind the scenes" or something?

I guess my last question would be... has anyone ever seen an Elder??

Waiting for someone of knowledge to enlighten me Insha'Allah.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

The elders are the scholars who guide the work of Tabligh such as Mawlana Saad, Mawlana Ahmed Laat, Mawlana Ibrahim Dewla etc etc.
It has nothing to do with age, rather with scholarship, experience and spiritual status.

[sudoku]

Are they all scholars?

I thought Bhai Abdul Wahhab saheb from Raiwind was not an 'aalim.

[Abu_Tamim]

Are they all scholars?

I thought Bhai Abdul Wahhab saheb from Raiwind was not an 'aalim.

No, all are not scholars.

[Maripat]

Are they all scholars?

In my list only Hazrat Abdul Aleem Sahab(DB) (and even that I have to check) will qualify.
Wassalam

[sudoku]

When I was around ten or so, Dr Nader saheb came to our city for a few days. He was so knowledgable and his way of speaking was so faseeh in both English and Urdu that I was so sure he was an 'aalim. But my father mentioned rather he was a Professor saheb from Aligarh. Needless to say, I was impressed (and remain).

[dr76]

In my list only Hazrat Abdul Aleem Sahab(DB) (and even that I have to check) will qualify.
Wassalam

Assalam Alaikum w.w.


Hazrat Dr Nadir Ali Khan db has done a correspondence course in alimiyat.
Has close ties with Hazrat Mufti Saeed Ahmed palanpuri sb db.

Wa assalam

[Maripat]

When I was around ten or so, Dr Nader saheb came to our city for a few days. He was so knowledgable and his way of speaking was so faseeh in both English and Urdu that I was so sure he was an 'aalim. But my father mentioned rather he was a Professor saheb from Aligarh. Needless to say, I was impressed (and remain).

That is him!

Pray for him since he is mostly confined to bed now. My apologies for not saying this earlier. He was bayt to Hazrat Qari Amir Hasan Sahab(RA) and I could not visit him even at the time of Qari Sahab(RA)'s passing away because meeting times are rather limited.

Wassalam