Issues with Apostacy Law

[truthlearner]

Asslam O Alaikum,
I have a similar problem.
I had some discussions with non muslims on youtube videos, facebook etc .
Well,now I am at a point that I am confused over some things which could ultimately rattle my believe in Islam. I want to have belief but ...

I would like to put up some points and ask for your help to clear them out. My point of view is that a prophet is a leader to follow,so he should be almost perfect,otherwise he is not the true prophet.Thanks

1) I cannot think of Death punishment for "apostasy" and "blasphemy law" , as I believe that no true prophet would ask to kill people rather he should be merciful. We call Prophet Muhammad(SAW) as the most compassionate human born on earth but then why these laws. There should be freedom of religion, there should be no compulsion. Some Muslim scholars like those teaching in Western universities say that Islam doesnot stand for death punishment for these reasons but clear majority of the other Islamic scholars say otherwise. There is some fatwa from Al-Azhar university saying that apostasy and blasphemy are punishable by death.

2) About the marriage of Ayesha(R.A) to Prophet Muhammad (SAW), they married when Ayesha(R.A) was six years old Which I think is WRONG, since how could a six year old kid could tell you her consent? The other point they consummated marriage when Ayesha (R.A) was 9 years old, 9 years is biologically totally unhealthy for girls.. that is because girls havent sexually matured yet. Even in those days if it was legal to marry a 9 year old for commoners it wasn't allowed for a Prophet.. Because he is considered to be an ideal person for all times.. So its unbecoming of a Prophet to set such an example for us.

Wassalam.

[Maripat]

Asslam O Alaikum,
I have a similar problem.
I had some discussions with non muslims on youtube videos, facebook etc .

Golden Rule 1: Enter into debate with detractors of Islam only when you have fortified your own belief, faith, imaan. Many of these detractors are experienced people who have spent lots of time in gathering evidence that is supposedly against Islam. Many of them are trained propagators of other religions. Too many of them have morbid hatred for Islam and Muslims. They have got a fourteen hundred years history of maligning Islam. There were western crusades against Islam that went for hundreds of years. It was real ground battle and the west never forgot its resounding defeat. In last few hundred years they again appeared on our door step and thoroughly shook our foundations. It is called colonialism. They liquidated several of our empires and only recetly they have been pushed back. Economic colonialism remains and so does the mental slavery of our own people. You have to be careful about it. And you can be careful only after having a knowledge of it.

Golden Rule 2: Never give them the key to the debate. It means do not debate at their terms. If you do that then you loose - it is that simple. Find their weakness and hit hard. You are on the side of Allah(SWT). They have decided to deny Him or they have decided to make partners with. They have no respect for Elders. Expect no mercy from them. And if you are not convinced then read the history of crusades. Closer in time just see the moral and cultural state of their society. Please, please do not be deluded the you can face them by being goody, goody. Crusades, colonialism and the current economic colonialism are not friendly acts and you must know perfectly well that you are facing a suave enemy. Be suave yourself and face them. Never drink the sweet poison.

Well,now I am at a point that I am confused over some things which could ultimately rattle my believe in Islam. I want to have belief but ...

They are confused and that is what they can export. Question is why do you want to import it? Answer is that there is no reason for that. What is the first Verse after Surah Fatiha? This is the book where there is no doubt .....

No doubt, no confusion. Do you get it akhi?

The first gift to a Muslim from Allah(SWT) is that He (Exalted is He) delivers him from all and any doubts.

And it is no small gift - I am sure you'll appreciate it. The next words from Allah(SWT) is guidance.

This is the book where there is, no doubt, guidance for the people ...

So there. He (SWT) guides us ... (not only Muslims but people in general - but that is a different point).

This is what we Muslims dissipate and distribute - guidance.
If any one wants to take it - fine. No? Fine again.

You can do this duty only after getting a firm belief in these things.

Your belief, faith, imaan becomes more and more strong by Dawah, Recitation of Noble Qur'an and Supplication. So indulge in the last two amply.

And since Dawah is the first element in this list I'll give you the glad tidings that even if the kuffar have taken, temporarily, you for a ride it is you who is going to be the winner.

I would like to put up some points and ask for your help to clear them out. My point of view is that a prophet is a leader to follow,so he should be almost perfect,otherwise he is not the true prophet.Thanks

Or perfect.
And there is another category beyond perfection.
It is called excellence.

If you have a ticket to the bus, train or the plane then you are perfect person to take the journey.
And then there are things that take you beyond that. If you are a well behaved passenger then you have gone beyond the requirement of journey. We some how do not appreciate it that this is the direction where you start seeing the real glory of beloved Prophet.

And you can communicate it only once you know it yourself.

Five Prayers for us but Tahajjud is obligatory on him - our beloved Prophet(PBUH).
Can you see a direction where beloved Prophet (PBUH) has gone beyond perfection, above perfection?
You are perfect in prayer if you pray five times. That is the meaning of perfection.
If you do more then that then you are going in the direction of excellence.
This an improvement over perfection.
I have give only one example - countless others can be furnished. May be we should have thread on perfection vs excellence.

And please, please do not let the kuffar define your terminology.
And it helps if you understand their terminology.
They have loaded terminology and to defend Islam we have to be aware of that loaded terminology.
It needs preparation.
To do a course on Comparative Religion helps - the Christian preachers are all trained in that. Your weapon is to get yourself trained.

1) I cannot think of Death punishment for "apostasy" and "blasphemy law" , as I believe that no true prophet would ask to kill people rather he should be merciful. We call Prophet Muhammad(SAW) as the most compassionate human born on earth but then why these laws. There should be freedom of religion, there should be no compulsion. Some Muslim scholars like those teaching in Western universities say that Islam doesnot stand for death punishment for these reasons but clear majority of the other Islamic scholars say otherwise. There is some fatwa from Al-Azhar university saying that apostasy and blasphemy are punishable by death.

If a person dreams of the Queen of England with physical intimacy he has to be killed. Did you know that?
The world, the modern world has got blasphemy laws. Only Muslims are not supposed to have them. Please try to understand that in a history of more then a thousand years only some 24 or sixty hands of thieves have been chopped. Why this hue and cry about the draconian nature of hudood in Islam?

And one more point has to be hammered into western brains. Listen to their blasphemy and apostasy nonsense and then try to bring the topic to the other aspect. Allah(SWT) says that implementation of hudood is in your own favour only. We should try to understand it. Societies who refuse to implement Allah(SWT)'s law are in deeper loss. Let us take the gross counting. How many apostates have been killed in recent history? I do not remember many. So there. Then think of a society who rejects Allah(SWT). How many of them end their lives by suicide? Horribly large numbers.

2) About the marriage of Ayesha(R.A) to Prophet Muhammad (SAW), they married when Ayesha(R.A) was six years old Which I think is WRONG, since how could a six year old kid could tell you her consent? The other point they consummated marriage when Ayesha (R.A) was 9 years old, 9 years is biologically totally unhealthy for girls.. that is because girls havent sexually matured yet. Even in those days if it was legal to marry a 9 year old for commoners it wasn't allowed for a Prophet.. Because he is considered to be an ideal person for all times.. So its unbecoming of a Prophet to set such an example for us.

Wassalam.

They are against marriage. Marriage of Hazrat Ayesha(RA) with beloved Prophet(PBUH).
We are against fornication.

Which is a better preposition? To be against marriage or to be against fornication?

These silly people think that since a child can not give consent therefore his or her marriage is not allowed. The next step is that they ignore child's protection. And what is the result? Even in the most decent magazines I have seen articles chronicling the horrible child abuse in society. I'll request you not to push me to describe and analyze this aspect further. It is most sordid. Their standards of morality are pathetic and we do need to confront them but they are too blinded by their own sense of morality to get in touch with the way out. They are in trouble in this regard and not we. Even if they over power some of us in arguments. Be strong and be prepared to give them a piece of reality. Reality of their own society.

Wassalam

[Abdul1234]

Asslam O Alaikum,

....My point of view is that a prophet is a leader to follow,so he should be almost perfect,otherwise he is not the true prophet....

...I cannot think of Death punishment for "apostasy" and "blasphemy law" as I believe that no true prophet would ask to kill people rather he should be merciful....

.... Prophet Muhammad (SAW), they married when Ayesha (R.A) was six years old Which I think is WRONG, since how could a six year old kid could tell you her consent?...

...its unbecoming of a Prophet to set such an example for us...

Wassalam.

I think I may be right to say hellooo abid786 (-Jason) or his like?

you have said some strange things that no Muslim in his right mind would say

you are using typical attacks that are used against the Muslims by Christian Missionaries

and I must remind you that a Muslim does not accuse any of the Prophets of Allah of being wrong

you are confused Lady Aisha (raa) was actually betrothed to the Prophet (saws) by her parents at six years old

when she became baaligh/sexually mature she had the right to reject the marriage if she wanted, she did not,

she loved the Prophet (saws) till her dying day and became the source of much of our knowledge about him (saws)

Lady Aisha (raa) was sexually mature when the Prophet (saws) consummated his marriage with her

a Muslim does not accuse the Prophet (saws) of doing something unbecoming like you have, if you are Muslim repent from this

If you think a Prophet from God cannot order the killing of a person for a crime or in war then you obviously haven't read the Bible

if you wish to become a Muslim be careful with whom you associate



you may benefit by listening to these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s


Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi

[truthlearner]

I created this account just to add to this thread (like one before).

I'm not sure this post will last as muslims aren't very good at accepting criticism and this is one of the things that led me away from Islam.

The proof that islam isn't truly the religion from God is easy to see if you look into muslim communities in the modern age.

Muslims always put a false face on, telling themeselves, other muslim and non-muslims that Islam is ONE. But look into it and you will see so many differences, and over miniscule differences muslims declare each other kafirs.

If Islam was the true religion in this modern age of mass communication it would have spread like wildfire and MILLIONS would be converting to islam rather what is a happening is a few thousands of westerners are unhappy with their inherited culture/religon and turn to alternatives such as Islam, BUDDHISM, HINDUISM, PAGANISM, JAINISM etc... the muslims then flaunt the ones that come their way as proof that Islam is verily the true religion 'cos someone converted to it. At the same time anyone who leaves Islam is supposed to be killed.

Islam in it's early age spread very fast in a short space of time, and muslims argue it wasn't done through the sword, if that is so, why isn't Islam spreading in a similar fashion today, when in this age of the internet people can easily get and read the message of islam?

Hope everyone opens up their minds to the truth whatever it is

Well, I disagree with you. A religion doesn't need to spread fast in order to prove that it's true. So, your point is irrelevant I think.

[Abdul1234]

Fayaz Islam is spreading like wildfire

you reject Islam yet you claim to be a Hanafi?

you are a misguided deceiver, satan rides you like a donkey

it is you who puts on a false face not the Muslims

your sort are dropping bombs on Muslim countries< torturing and killing

and still islam is spreading like wildfire : peacefully

and you may live to see Islam spread by the sword once more

if you live long enough you may even one day claim to adopt Islam as a result of what will one day happen InshaAllah

but I suspect that your end will be in the fire InshaAllah

[Abdul1234]

Well, I disagree with you. A religion doesn't need to spread fast in order to prove that it's true. So, your point is irrelevant I think.

talking to your alter ego?

[truthlearner]

I think I may be right to say hellooo abid786 (-Jason) or his like?

you have said some strange things that no Muslim in his right mind would say

you are using typical attacks that are used against the Muslims by Christian Missionaries

and I must remind you that a Muslim does not accuse any of the Prophets of Allah of being wrong

you are confused Lady Aisha (raa) was actually betrothed to the Prophet (saws) by her parents at six years old

when she became baaligh/sexually mature she had the right to reject the marriage if she wanted, she did not,

she loved the Prophet (saws) till her dying day and became the source of much of our knowledge about him (saws)

Lady Aisha (raa) was sexually mature when the Prophet (saws) consummated his marriage with her

a Muslim does not accuse the Prophet (saws) of doing something unbecoming like you have, if you are Muslim repent from this

If you think a Prophet from God cannot order the killing of a person for a crime or in war then you obviously haven't read the Bible

if you wish to become a Muslim be careful with whom you associate

Well, I am Muslim. I am not attacking or anything else. I just have some doubts that have been puzzling me that's why I came here to ask for your help. I am not accusing or anything else. I just want my doubts to be cleared off. I am not saying that anyone is wrong , I just want clarifications since our own Muslim scholars have confused me so much. Someone says something and another one other.

1) I know that the relationship between Muhammad (SAW) and Ayesha(RA) was very good.
In Islamic system Nikah amounts to marriage, betrothed is not the correct word to use in this context here. Could you explain this? So, six year old marrying to 53 year old man, that's not fair I guess in so many ways.

2) Maybe you misunderstood my question, I am just asking about the death penalty for apostates and blasphemy laws.

Some other points I would like to extend are.

A) According to many Islamic scholars, you can beat your wife in the light of a verse in Quran. I don't find it ok. You should love your wife and not own him.
B) We all do mistake, we all need second chance but according to sharia laws, punishments are so hard that in case you are awarded death penalty, there is no chance coming back ! and if you were innocent and were just trapped, your bad !! In my opinion , God has given life and no one has the right to take it.

[truthlearner]

Islam is spreading like wildfire

you reject Islam yet you claim to be a Hanafi?

you are a misguided deceiver, satan rides you like a donkey

it is you who puts on a false face not the Muslims

your sort are dropping bombs on Muslim countries< torturing and killing

and still islam is spreading like wildfire : peacefully

and you may live to see Islam spread by the sword once more

if you live long enough you may even one day claim to adopt Islam as a result of what will one day happen InshaAllah

but I suspect that your end will be in the fire InshaAllah

I don't think it's the way to invite someone towards right path. You are scaring other and telling them you will ultimately force Islam down their throat?
People need to accept anything by heart. Even if you force them, in their hearts they will not be muslims. You need to spread Islam by your good deeds and not sword.

[Abdul1234]

I don't think it's the way to invite someone towards right path. You are scaring other and telling them you will ultimately force Islam down their throat?
People need to accept anything by heart. Even if you force them, in their hearts they will not be muslims. You need to spread Islam by your good deeds and not sword.

sorry but you are confused, I never said Islam should, was or will be forced down anyone's throat.

When Islam was spread by the sword it meant that tyranny was swept away by the rule of Islam.

People were not forced to become a Muslim in the past and nor shall they be in the future InshaAllah.

However, when Islam one day gains the upper political hand you will see many hypocritical conversions of convenience
just as you will see many real ones (InshaAllah)

if you study the history of the righteous Caliphate and the Ummayad era you will understand this better.

[truthlearner]

sorry but you are confused, I never said Islam should, was or will be forced down anyone's throat.

When Islam was spread by the sword it meant that tyranny was swept away by the rule of Islam.

People were not forced to become a Muslim in the past and nor shall they be in the future InshaAllah.

However, when Islam one day gains the upper political hand you will see many hypocritical conversions of convenience
just as you will see many real ones (InshaAllah)

if you study the history of the righteous Caliphate and the Ummayad era you will understand this better.

Thanks for this explanation .