Issues with Apostacy Law

[Abdul1234]

Want to know about the Rashad Khalifa sect - try this blog...

http://answeringsubmission.wordpress...he-submitters/

The Submitters, claim that their Leader, Rashid Khalifa, was a messenger of Allah,

and they have written articles to support it.

Here we will try to look at those articles and find out how true their claim is.

Since the Submitters believe only in Quran and no hadith, we will examine everything in the proof of Quran only. And we hope that a sincere reader will appreciate our article.

[Abdul1234]

There is a great article on this website too..


http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/submitters.htm

It begins like this...

Zionist Conspiracies Against Islam:
Rashad Khalifa's Cult

You'll find the most disastrous campaigns by Jews, Qadianis, Shia, and other enemies of Islam who say, "Just hold fast to Qur'an and don't follow Hadiths because Hadiths aren't reliable." Sayyidina Rasulullah ((may Peace Be Upon Him)) forewarns Muslims Beware of the time when people sitting on cushions, relaxing, say 'just follow Qur'an and don't follow Hadiths'. In addition to the groups named above there is a wave of pro-Zionists propagating a false religion, but trying to use the name of Islam. These people may have Arabic (or Urdu/Farsi) names, dress half-way like Muslims, and use some Arabic terminology, but they are NOT Muslims, nor are they anywhere close to being Muslim! These shayateen are members of an international cult that calls itself "The Submitters," founded by a dajjal named Dr. Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. The mission of this Zionist-backed organization is to wage an unholy war against Hadith and the Sunnah of Sayyidina wa Mawlana Muhammad ((may Peace Be Upon Him)) while professing to follow nothing but the Holy Qur'an.

Many Muslims have heard the name "Rashad Khalifa," but few know the true identity of this wretch.

[Abdul1234]

Another great article of the 'Quran only Muslims' group that T RAW has given us a link to is here

http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cu...bmit_refut.htm

it includes the fascinating ....

Are Muslim Idolators?

The Submitters claim that all Muslims are Idolators, since they join the name of Prophet Muhammad (may Peace Be Upon Him) along with Allah in the Sahadah. But is this claim really true. The Muslim when he takes up his Sahadah clearly says, "There is no God except Allah and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah". Clearly this is not the Joining of Prophet as a God, but they are misinterpreting it.

The Prophet Muhammad (may Peace Be Upon Him) was to be given due respect by all of the people of the world. In Quran Allah says in 2:104, that the prophet has to be given more respect than ordinary men. The natrul question is why only Prophet Muhammad (may Peace Be Upon Him), why not all other prophets which had come before. They also brought the same religion, they were also muslims. Here we have to remember, that all the Messengers which came before, came to particular region. Their message was Time bound and Space Bound. Muhammad (may Peace Be Upon Him) was the universal messenger (Quran 34:28).

In the Adhan the Muezzin calls, "Ashado Anna Muhammadur Rasolullah", which means, "I bear witness that Muuhammed (may Peace Be Upon Him) is the Prophet of Allah". Clearly there is no sign of joining him as a partner of Allah. This was the same Adhan which was given when the Prophet was Alive, and has been recorded in All the historical books. All Muslims, follow the same Adhan till day. ...

[T_RAW]

The Qur'an, Written by scribes and recited aloud repeatedly to Prophet Muhammad to ensure its validity. This ENSURES the 100% UNDENIABLE AUTHENTICITY.

"Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian" (Al-Hijr 15:9)

AND Allah's protection is on the Qur'an.

Therefore it is to be accepted as the only source for 100% undeniable validity.

For hadith to be 100% UNDENIABLY authentic Prophet Muhammad must have heard it and the writers of the hadith must have read it aloud repeatedly to him to ensure validity, and Allah swt's protection must be over it.

Allah swt's protection was not declared over hadith. Okay....But lets go on.

When was the hadith written if it is to be 100% true? Could they have possibly been under Prophet Muhammad's supervision, were they recited aloud to him and checked for 100% authenticity of his teachings?

Prophet Muhammad saws DEATH DATE

8 June 632

Imam Bukhari was the first of which to create a book of hadith and his BIRTHDATE is in the year 810


I demonstrated the criteria for being 100% authentic through why the ultimate Qur'an is 100% authentic, and the sahih hadith do not fit that criteria therefore the sahih hadith cannot be 100% authentic, and is prone to contain flaws, things from bad memory, tradition, unintentional errors, miscalculations and many more.

Thus sahih hadith cannot be accepted as 100% true, but is given any percentage under 100%.

Do you now claim sahih hadith is 100% undeniably authentic? Or is it a percentage under 100%?

P.S my arguement is not to demonstrate that we are not to follow sahih hadith, but rather my arguement is to demonsrate "sahih" is a false label and they are not 100% authentic but instead they are among the best, AND they are still prone to error, miscalculations, etc as demonstrated by above.

[Saqqib_Ali]

end of the day......

.....even if the hadith are not 100% true, then how are we to practice islam without them, islam is the only religion acceptable to Allah and he has already sent his last messenger over 1400 years ago, so this is all we have left...... Starting from scratch you can't derive the "salat" from the qur'an, nor other things important to be a muslim. Mashallah, we don't even have the kalima in it's whole form anywhere in the qur'an. and the shias actually add the Wilayat of Ali(ra) into their kalima saying the kalima of the sunnis is incomplete.

so without hadith/sunna we are lost, and we have to make do with what we have. and you can't use kuffar as reference to what is true and false in the hadith rather we already have a whole science of hadith for that, atleast the sunnis do.

salam

[T_RAW]

end of the day......

.....even if the hadith are not 100% true, then how are we to practice islam without them, islam is the only religion acceptable to Allah and he has already sent his last messenger over 1400 years ago, so this is all we have left...... Starting from scratch you can't derive the "salat" from the qur'an, nor other things important to be a muslim. Mashallah, we don't even have the kalima in it's whole form anywhere in the qur'an. and the shias actually add the Wilayat of Ali(ra) into their kalima saying the kalima of the sunnis is incomplete.

so without hadith/sunna we are lost, and we have to make do with what we have. and you can't use kuffar as reference to what is true and false in the hadith rather we already have a whole science of hadith for that, atleast the sunnis do.

salam

I comepletely agree, im not saying theyre ALL FALSE as they carry on the teachings of the prophet we all NEED to follow BUT my proposal was that the hadith of aishas marriage age possibly gave a miscalculation because it was written long after so for those who cannot come to accept a 6 year old marriage, you can simply say this hadith is a miscalculation and carry on with the thousands of more important parts of our deen.

And when you get down to the point, aisha's age of marriage is not a major part our deen we dont need to worry about it, its a simple matter with a simple solution.

[Abdul1234]

The Qur'an, Written by scribes and recited aloud repeatedly to Prophet Muhammad to ensure its validity. This ENSURES the 100% UNDENIABLE AUTHENTICITY.

"Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian" (Al-Hijr 15:9)

AND Allah's protection is on the Qur'an.

Therefore it is to be accepted as the only source for 100% undeniable validity.

Nobody says that all the thousands of Sahih Hadeeth are 100% authentic - what they say are that they have been passed along chains of honest and highly reliable narrators with proven strong skills of memory and memorization and that they have been scrutinized in various ways by the great hadeeth collectors - who rejected all hadeeth that failed to meet their high requirements of proven authenticity.

Of course we know that unlike the Holy Qur'an there is a possibility of error amongst the sahih hadeeth but we also know that of the corpus of sahih hadeeth as a whole is generally highly authentic. this is due to various factors, the most notable of which was that;

1. the ancient Arabs literary traditions that gave them great skills in very accurately memorizing words from poetry to Qur'an verses and Hadeeth narrations - impressively accurate oral memorization was a key part of Arab civilization in that era (it still is amongst some Arabs in places such as Mauritania).

2. the care with which the hadeeth narrations were memorized and transmitted by believers who feared the punishment of Allah if they should pass on an untruth about the Holy Prophet (saws).

What your words are really implying is that the same Muslim community that transmitted the Holy Qur'an with great care and attention also became engaged in a great conspiracy to invent lies about the Holy Prophet (saws)....

... and that this great conspiracy by the Muslim Ummah was not understood until the anti-Islamic orientalists started to claim it in the 19th century CE and was then popularized amongst very ignorant Muslims in the 20th century by dubious figures such as Richard Kalif, who you very wrongly imagine have enlightened us on the subject.

[Abdul1234]

Brother T-Raw this thread discussed some similar issues to the ones that you are bringing up, maybe you will be interested to read it?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Ghamidi/page11