The Calamity of Tasawwuf

[Abdul1234]

As far as the great Imam Malik Rahimahullah is concerned , Imam ibn al Jawzi rahimahullah in Talbees ibless has recorded from Abdul Malik Ibn Zayyad ra who said "We were with [Imam] Malik when I mentioned to him the Sufis in my state, I said: They wear the most luxurious garments from Yemen, and they do so and so. He said: Woe to you, are these Muslims?! He said: He then laughed until he lied on his back.
One of his companions sitting with him said to me: O you, we never saw any who is a greater of a calamity on this Shaykh [i.e. Imam Malik] then you, this is the first time ever we see him laugh" Talbess iblees p 392

Certain opponents of tasawwuf adduce two reports, one chainless and one weak-chained, originating in a man from the city of Naseebeen (Iraq) who has been critiqued as munkar al-hadith or ‘disclaimed in his narrations’ to claim that Imam Malik derided group dhikr:

1. Al-Tinnisi said: We were sitting with Malik with his companions around him. A man from the people of Nasibin said, ‘We have some people who go by the name of Sufis. They eat a lot then they start [chanting] poems (qasa’id), after which they stand up and start dancing.’ Malik said, ‘Are they boys (sibyan)?’ He said no. Malik said, ‘Are they insane?’ He said, ‘No, they are old men (mashayikh) and other than that, and they are mature and sane (`uqala’).’ Malik said, ‘I never heard that any of the people of Islam do this.’ The man said to him, ‘Indeed, they do! They eat, then they stand up and start dancing intensively (dawa’ib), and some of them slap their heads, and some their faces.’ Malik started laughing then went into his house. His companions said to the man, ‘You were, O man, ill luck (mash’um) for our friend [Malik]. We have been sitting with him thirty-odd years and never saw him laugh except today.’

This is narrated without chain by al-Qadi `Iyad. in Tartib al-Madarik (2:53-54).

2. `Abd al-Malik ibn Ziyad al-Nasibi said: ‘We were with Malik when I mentioned to him Sufis in our city. I said to him that they wear fancy Yemenite clothes, and do such and such. He replied, ‘Woe to you! Are they Muslims?’ He then laughed until he lay on his back. Some of his companions said to me, ‘What is this? We have not seen more trouble (fitna) caused to the Shaykh than you, for we never saw him laugh!?’

Narrated by al-Khallal in al-Hathth `ala al-Tijara wal-Sina`a wal-`Amal (ed. Abu Ghudda, §97) with a weak chain because of `Abd al-Malik ibn Zyad al-Nasibi who is ‘condemned in his narrations and untrustworthy’ (munkar al-hadith, ghayr thiqa) according to al-Azdi as per Ibn al-Jawzi in al-Du`af?’ wal-Matrukin (1:149) while Ibn Hibban in his Thiqat (8:390) said he reports oddities from Malik.

Content-wise, neither of the above reports shows unambiguous condemnation of group dhikr but only that some people who passed for Sufis in the Imam’s time reportedly committed certain childish excesses or irrational breaches of decorum. The reports only show that Imam Malik found the story amusing. The delator seems obsessed by the ‘eating and dancing’ which he mentions twice as if afraid Malik didn’t hear it the first time. There is also on the part of Malik’s circle a clear disapproval of the delator who is apparently perceived as an interloper. And Allah knows best.

GF Haddad

http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/sm1-gfh_e.html#4

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fascinating so you dr.ati have produced two hadeeth one chain less and one weak chained that were narrated by one disclaimed in his narrations good work

[Abdul1234]

I accused you because i know that you are attributing some hear-say copy paste to pious Imams without varification. Here is what Imam Shafi' rahimahullah has to say about Sufism. Imam Bayhaqi rahimahullah has narrated it with an authentic chain in his Manaqib Imam Shafi.

أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ قال سمعت أبا محمد جعفر بن محمد بن الحارث يقول سمعت أبا عبد الله الحسين بن محمد بن بحر يقول سمعت يونس بن عبد الأعلى يقول سمعت الشافعي يقول : لو أن رجلا تصوف أول النهار لم يأت عليه الظهر إلا وجدته أ

Imam Shafi' said that the one who does Tasawwuf in the start of the day , you will find him stupid at the end of the day.

you say potarto - I say potato

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Abu Nu`aym narrated with his chain in Hilyat al-Awliya’ that al-Shafi`i said: “If a person did NOT exercise Sufism at the beginning of the day, he would not reach Zuhr except an idiot.” And this is true, as shown by the detractors of Sufism till our time. ((http://www.livingislam.org/k/si_e.html ))

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you say tomarto - I say tomayto

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“I accompanied the Sufis for ten years and benefited from them but from two sayings [and in another report three sayings]: their statement that time is as a sword: if you do not cut it, it cuts you, and their statement that deprivation is immunity.”

Abu Nu`aym narrated with his chain in Hilyat al-Awliya’ that al-Shafi`i said: “If a person did NOT exercise Sufism at the beginning of the day, he would not reach Zuhr except an idiot.” And this is true, as shown by the detractors of Sufism till our time. ((http://www.livingislam.org/k/si_e.html ))

[The reported third states: “their statement: if your soul does not keep busy with truth it will keep you busy with batil.”]

Shaykh Gibril states (I have added the arabic) commenting on this athar: “Narrated from Muh.ammad ibn Muh.ammad ibn Idrîs al-Shâfi`î by al-Bayhaqî in Manâqib al-Shâfi`î (2:208) cf. Ibn al-Qayyim in Madârij al-Sâlikîn (3:128) and al-Jawâb al-Kâfî (p. 208-209) and al-Suyût.î in تأييد الحقيقة العلية Ta’yîd al-H.aqîqat al-`Aliyya (p. 15)”

Adding again to his statements Imam ‘Ajluni reports that Imam Ash-Shafi’i said,
حبب إلي من دنياكم ثلاث: ترك التكلف، وعشرة الخلق بالتلطف، والاقتداء بطريق أهل التصوف

[source:1089 كشف الخفاء ومزيل الالباس عما اشتهر من الأحاديث عل ألسنة الناس]

“Three things in this world have been made lovely to me: avoiding affectation, treating people kindly, and abiding by the way of the people of tasawwuf!”

In the non-pseudo-salafi publication of the Diwan of Imam Ash-Shafi’i we find:

فقيها وصوفيا فكن ليس واحدا فإني وحق الله إياك أنصح

فذلك قاس لم يذق قلبه تقى وهذا جهول كيف ذو الجهل يصلح

Faqîhan wa-s.ufiyyan fakun laysa wâh.idan
fa’innî wa-h.aqqillâhi iyyâka ans.ah.u
Fadhâlika qâsin lam yadhuq qalbuhu tuqan
wahâdhâ jahûlun kayfa dhûl-jahli yas.luh.u ((for the arabic go here: http://www.alwatanyh.com/literature/showentry34497.html ))

“Be both a jurisprudent and a sûfî – never just one of the two.
Truly, by the Divine Right, I am advising you sincerely!
For the former is hardened, his heart tastes no Godwariness,
While the latter is ignorant – of what use is the ignorant?” ((translated by Shaykh Gibril here: http://www.livingislam.org/n/shs_e.html ))

So let the enemies of tasawwuf digest on these words! May Allah bless our Sayyid Muhammad, his family, companions, and his followers Amin.

http://www.seekingilm.com/archives/411

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Its funny how these things come round again

[Abdul1234]

This method of yours is very dangerous. It is not correct to accuse a Muslim of lying because accusation is very dangerous. I never accused you of lying, however if you want to proceed then fair enough.

Secondly, you haven't posted one authentic chain of narration attributed to Imam ibn Arabi (rahimahullah).

Also, the book of Diwan was written by Imam ash Shafi'i (rahimahullah) himself so it does not need a chain of narration. The quote attributed to Imam Malik is well known and written by several authentic scholars including, Ali al Qari (rahimahullah), Sharh `Ayn al-`Ilm wa- Zayn al-Hilm 1:33; Ahmad Zarruq (rahimahullah), Qawa`id al-tasawwuf; Ali al-Adawi (rahimahullah), Hashiyat al-`Adawi `ala Sharh Abi al-Hasan li-Risalat Ibn Abi Zayd al-Musammat Kifayat al- Talib al-Rabbani li-Risalat Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani fi Madhhab Malik 2:195; Ibn `Ajiba (rahimahullah), Iqaz al-Himam fi Sharh al- Hikam p. 5-6.

There are also manuscripts present which show the handwritten text of ibn Taymiyyah

لبست الخرقة المباركة للشيخ عبد القادر و بيني و بينه اثنان

"I wore the blessed Sufi cloak of 'Abdul Qadir, there being between him and me two." [al-Mas'ala at-Tabriziyya (manuscript, Damascus, 1186 H)]

there is much sense here

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Avoid much suspicion, indeed some suspicions are sins.

And spy not neither backbite one another.

Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother?

You would hate it (so hate backbiting).

And fear God, verily, God is the one who accepts repentance, Most Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 49: 12)

[Abdul1234]

You have attributed lies to Imam Shafi' ra and Imam Malik ra. If you provide an authentic chain for these two narrations i will delete my post.

why don't you try contacting Sunnah.org or hizmetbooks.org for your question

I am sure they will be glad to assist you or will put you onto someone who can ...

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فقيها وصوفيا فكن ليس واحدا فإني وحق الله إياك أنصح

فذلك قاس لم يذق قلبه تقى وهذا جهول كيف ذو الجهل يصلح

((http://www.alwatanyh.com/literature/showentry34497.html ))

&

Imam Malik explicitly promoted tasawwuf as a duty of scholars when he said that....

“He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith,

while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself.

Only he who combines the two proves true.”


This hadith is related by the highly respected muhaddith Sheikh Ahmad Zarruq (d. 899 (ra),

by the respected Sheikh`Ali al-Qari al-Harawi (d. 1014 (ra),

by the respected muhaddith Sheikh `Ali ibn Ahmad al `Adawi (d. 1190 (ra)

and the respected muhaddith Sheikh Ibn `Ajiba (d. 1224 (ra)

amongst others -

for further info see http://www.sunnah.org/tasawwuf/scholar4.htm


I wonder dr.ati do you think they were all liars who spread false narrations and lies,

with false isnads, passing them off as real in a conspiracy to corrupt society?

.

[Abu_Tamim]

If I remember correctly, Dr Ati was asking about 'Ali Miyan Nadwi's views on Tasawwuf and Sufism.
Here is a passage by him in his book, "Saiyid Ahmad Shahid", chapter 5, pg 59-60, English translation by Mohiuddin Ahmad:
"Saiyid Ahmad Shahid returned to Delhi in 1818. Although young in years, he was ripe in experience and profound in knowledge and was fully capable of guiding others on the path of spiritual journey. He had already attained the higher stages of mystical experience which had illuminated his heart with the certitude of knowledge. He could in fact be reckoned amongst the tallest figures of mystical experience, since in Sirat-e-Mustaqim, a collection of his discourses and sermons compiled in 1819 by Shah Muhammad Ismail we find a wealth of information on essential Sufistic teachings and practices and a lucid exposition of the doctrines, methods and spiritual virtues of the Qadiriyya, Naqshbandiyya and Mujaddidiya orders. ......He knew that neither mysticism breaks the mould of the Sacred Law nor the Shari'ah stifles the Tariqa. For both are complementary to each other, both constitute an integral part of religious traditions; they together contribute to spiritual vitality essential for creating a moral-religious society free of all social ills which debase and enervate the Ummah."

[Muzzammil Husayn]

You have attributed lies to Imam Shafi' ra and Imam Malik ra. If you provide an authentic chain for these two narrations i will delete my post.

I accused you [of lying] because i know that you are attributing some hear-say copy paste to pious Imams without varification.

That's a bit rich coming from you. Does this mean you lied when you said Imam Abu Yusuf said Imam Abu Hanifah was a Jahmi without verifying and without authenticating the chain?

See here to jog your memory: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post582950

And that's not the only example in that thread. You have proven yourself a liar.

Here is what Imam Shafi' rahimahullah has to say about Sufism. Imam Bayhaqi rahimahullah has narrated it with an authentic chain in his Manaqib Imam Shafi.

أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ قال سمعت أبا محمد جعفر بن محمد بن الحارث يقول سمعت أبا عبد الله الحسين بن محمد بن بحر يقول سمعت يونس بن عبد الأعلى يقول سمعت الشافعي يقول : لو أن رجلا تصوف أول النهار لم يأت عليه الظهر إلا وجدته أ

Imam Shafi' said that the one who does Tasawwuf in the start of the day , you will find him stupid at the end of the day.

Did you verify this or are you lying (by "attributing some hear-say copy paste to pious Imams without varification")?

Had you actually looked up the quote from al-Bayhaqi's Manaqib, al-Bayhaqi contextualises this quote amidst other narrations from Imam al-Shafi'i. After narrating the above, he says “He only intended thereby those who enter amongst the Sufis and suffice with the name not the meaning, and with the form not the reality, and sits behind from earning and throws his burden on the Muslims and does not care for them and does not observe their rights and does not engage in [gaining] knowledge and worship, as he [i.e. al-Shafi‘i] described him [i.e. the corrupt Sufi] [as such] in another place.” (Al-Bayhaqi, Manaqib al-Shafi'i, al-Sayyid Ahmad Saqr ed. 2:207)

He then says: “However, the one who is pure from them amongst the Sufis with true reliance on Allah (Exalted and Glorified) and utilising the etiquettes of the Shari‘ah in his dealing with Allah (Exalted and Glorified) in worship and his dealing with people in conduct – then it has been reported from him [i.e. al-Shafi'i] that he joined their company and took from them.” (ibid 2:207-8)

Then al-Bayhaqi narrates with his chain the following: "Abu 'Abd al-Rahman al-Sulami reported to us: He said: I heard 'Abd Allah ibn al-Husayn ibn Musa al-Sulami say: I heard 'Ali ibn Ahmad say: I heard Ayyub ibn Sulayman say: I heard Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi'i say: I heard my father [i.e. Imam al-Shafi'i] say: "I accompanied the Sufis for ten years, and did not benefit from them [in anything] except two sentences: Time is a sword, and: Part of [divine] protection is that you are not able [to perform a sin]." (ibid 2:208)

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah recorded a different version of this narration in Madarij al-Salikin and said it was praise of the Group (i.e. Sufis):

"Imam al-Shafi‘i (may Allah be pleased with him) said, “I remained in the company of the Sufis and did not benefit from them in anything except two sentences. I heard them say, ‘Time is a sword, if you don’t tear it apart, it will tear you.’ And, ‘If you don’t preoccupy your soul with the truth then it will preoccupy you in falsehood.’”

"I [Ibn al-Qayyim] say: how excellent are these sentences. How beneficial, concise and representative are they regarding the lofty aspirations of he who uttered them and his vigilance. Al-Shafi‘i’s praise of this Group, in relation to the value of their words, suffices in this matter." (source)

Furthermore, Abu Nu'aym al-Asbahani (336 - 430) who is senior to al-Bayhaqi narrates the narration in question differently in volume 9 of his Hilyat al-Awliya (page 142): Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Rahman narrated to us: Abu al-Hasan ibn al-Qattat narrated to me: Muhammad ibn Abi Yahya narrated to me: Yunus ibn 'Abd al-A'la narrated to us: I heard al-Shafi'i say: "Were an intelligent man not to practice tasawwuf, Zuhr will not come until he becomes an idiot."

This wording therefore gives the opposite meaning to al-Bayhaqi's version. Anyhow, it is sufficient that al-Bayhaqi himself did not believe his Imam's words to be a general condemnation of Sufis, but those who only adopted the form and not the reality of tasawwuf. Furthermore, if nothing else it proves the group known as "Sufis" existed in this early period; and one Sufi that was a contemporary of Imam al-Shafi'i and took from some of his teachers (Sufyan ibn 'Uyaynah and Waki'), is a narrator with a hadith found in the Sahih of Imam al-Bukhari, as I showed here. And by the way, Ibn al-Qayyim refers to Abu Isma'il al-Harawi as "Shaykh al-Islam" in several places of Madarij al-Salikin - a kafir "Shaykh al-Islam" according to Ibn al-Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah?!

[mh16388]

I can understand your obsession with this word "Auliya". Let me ask you a simle question. Do you think that the person who believed that the saying of Pharaoh "Ima your lord most high" is valid a Wali of Allah? Can the one who accepts such a person as "Shaykh e Akbar" be a Wali of Allah? Simple Yes or NO will suffice.

I have explained the calamities in my article and i am not much fond of repeating myself.

lol i have actually comprehensively read that classic battle in that tariqas are bidah thread. almost every word. so i know that you did not properly understand the context in which sh ibn arabi said a lot of things in fusus al hikam. so my answer is Yes, i believe if he made a mistake it was forgiven by Allah (SWT) and no i do not think he is guilty of the crime you accuse him of.

my 'obsession' is actually why a great mind like yours is wasting time squabbling over tasawwuf. you could destroy secularism in pakistan single handedly with that blog of yours (plus some good advertisement.or you may write in express triubune or dawn directly)

okay i shall read your blog and see why you think otherwise.

[pluto]

I feel sad for Mufti Javed, he put in a lot of time here.

& Abdul1234 & Umar Ahmad & Muzammil Husayn.

[abdur.rahman]

I know this post does not fit much in the midst of this debate but while reading some posts here, my own old question surfaced and I felt to put it again in hope someone can explain it.

In certain books, acticles, forums, specially when certain methodologies of sufism that some say were not present in the times of Rasulullah (S.A.W) and Sahaba (R.A.A) are questioned, things like these

...in order to determine its compatibility or non-compatibility with the Shari`ah.
...which is undoubtedly in perfect agreement with the Book, the Sunnah...
...weighing everything by the firm yardstick of the Shari`ah...

are said. My question is, Tazkia, Ehsan, Ikhlas, Muarifah etc are all basic to deen, infact tazkia is one of the basic responsibilities of Rasulullah (S.A.W). Why do we need a separate system which is "in accordance with shariah" for them. Is it not part of shariah to observe salah, give zakah, fasting of ramadan and so many other ehkamat that are all there for tazkia. Quran and Sunnah describes all of the above qualities and completly describes the way to achieve them. Why do we need new methods specially when Rasulullah (S.A.W) warned so much of doing innovations in Islam.

And if by these statements, it is meant that sufism is something within shariah, then shariah is described primarily by Quran and Sunnah so all the basic aqaid and amal of sufism should be from Quran and Sunnah. If things like wahdat-ul-wujood and wahdat-us-shuhood are so important realities of tawheed, then tawheed is so clearly defined in Quran and Sunnah. Please can someone mention a thread or a resource where the references from Quran and Sunnah are given about these aqaid. Similarly, peeri-mureedi being said as so important in doing tazkia, can someone tell me where in Quran or Hadith, the neccessity, responsibilities, rights etc of peers, the method of achieving tazkia by being mureed of a peer, its fazail etc are described ? How did sahaba practiced peeri-mureedi ?

[Rahmaniyyah]

Although this section of the forum is for in-depth discussions, this thread has been closed because the OP [dr.ati] will no longer be able to respond - he has been temporarily banned, because he has chosen to make this discussion useless (on his part). He has failed to respond constructively over a thread of 15 pages, and little hope remains that he will accept a meaningful discussion.

Readers are advised to take knowledge only from the 'Ulama - not a random poster behind a computer screen; Mufti Javed is one such scholar, and Muzammil Husayn is a penultimate year student at Darul Uloom.

Also, brother19791 has been temporarily banned for his disgusting and dangerous comment about ibn Taymiyyah (ra). May Allah forgive him and us, amin