Beneficial influence of Taliban on Pakistani society

[AlGhuraba]

a question that comes to mind, they gave their bay'ah to ameer ul mo'mineen mullah omar, but they live in pakistani territory under the government of Pak, is that even possible? Shudnt bayah be given to the imam/leader of the region u inhabit?

Will rebelling against the govt they are supposed to obey (govt of Pak) be an act of khawarij? Or are they attacking Pak Govt/army with afghan taliban support in which case they shud no longer be considered pakistanis but part of afgan taliban?

[mh16388]

Bro, the TTP also target only military/government offices and personnel.

not exactly.i will check the link u are talking about.

[ahmad12]

a question that comes to mind, they gave their bay'ah to ameer ul mo'mineen mullah omar, but they live in pakistani territory under the government of Pak, is that even possible? Shudnt bayah be given to the imam/leader of the region u inhabit?

Will rebelling against the govt they are supposed to obey (govt of Pak) be an act of khawarij? Or are they attacking Pak Govt/army with afghan taliban support in which case they shud no longer be considered pakistanis but part of afgan taliban?

First of all, they did not attack first. They were in Pakistan helping the Afghan Taliban across the border by providing refuge, attacking NATO supply lines and so forth. The Pak government then attacked them and they defended themselves, whilst also making (legitimate) takfir of them. Not only this, but since the government of Pakistan has shown its open hostility to Islam and they are clear apostates, then it is permissible to rebel against them just as it is permissible to rebel against Bashar al Assad in Syria. What is the difference between them?

And bayah cannot be given to a kafir, it can only be given to a Muslim. The bayah they have given to Ameer Ul Mumineen is to show they accept him as their Amir in the war and that when they win, they consider him to be their legitimate leader

[ahmad12]

not exactly.i will check the link u are talking about.

Bro, this is what the TTP themselves claim (that they target only military and government personnel). The media will claim otherwise yet the media is faasiq- you cannot believe their claims without proof (which they never provide)

[AlGhuraba]

First of all, they did not attack first. They were in Pakistan helping the Afghan Taliban across the border by providing refuge, attacking NATO supply lines and so forth. The Pak government then attacked them and they defended themselves, whilst also making (legitimate) takfir of them. Not only this, but since the government of Pakistan has shown its open hostility to Islam and they are clear apostates, then it is permissible to rebel against them just as it is permissible to rebel against Bashar al Assad in Syria. What is the difference between them?

And bayah cannot be given to a kafir, it can only be given to a Muslim. The bayah they have given to Ameer Ul Mumineen is to show they accept him as their Amir in the war and that when they win, they consider him to be their legitimate leader

can you back that up with fatawa or what the ullama in Pakistan say, Islamic laws arent so simple, It would be nice if ullama gave their views, or if they have, anyone can share here please

[ahmad12]

can you back that up with fatawa or what the ullama in Pakistan say, Islamic laws arent so simple, It would be nice if ullama gave their views, or if they have, anyone can share here please

The TTP themselves have Ulema (in Pakistan) who have given these fataawa. The leaders of the Taliban such as Mullah Umar are themselves Ulema capable of giving fatwa. The rest seem to be silent on the issue.

[AlGhuraba]

Mullah Omar gave a fatwa declaring jihaad and takfeer against PA and GOP? Can you please share it here?

[ahmad12]

Mullah Omar gave a fatwa declaring jihaad and takfeer against PA and GOP? Can you please share it here?

I did not say that Mullah Umar made takfeer of them himself in a public fatwa but that the TTP have Ulema who have done so and that the leaders of the Taliban are capable of fatwa themselves (and so if the TTP were wrong, they would be stopped/refuted/etc). Look at the first link I posted early on in the thread where Maulana Asmatullah Muaviya discusses the kufr of the Pak government and army

[AlGhuraba]

Yes but for every TTP video, there's anti-TTP content calling them khawarij and takfeeris. There's heavy proof on both sides, and the army supporters claim Pakistani intel and military is still on good terms with the Afghan Taliban, who they've been helping under the US's nose.
allegations such as:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tta/50514576/1

Washington has long accused elements within Pakistan's government of supporting insurgents fighting Afghan and coalition forces across the border.

Mullen said the Haqqani network is supported and protected by the Pakistani government and is a "veritable arm" of its Inter-Services Intelligence Agency. The ability of insurgents to seek sanctuary in Pakistan has made fighting them in Afghanistan more difficult, he said.
He said history shows it would be difficult to defeat an insurgency when fighters enjoy a sanctuary outside national boundaries as is happening in the Afghanistan War.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ro...r-at-pakistan/

It is hardly the first time that Pakistan's intelligence services have been accused of backing militants. We know that much of Pakistan's foreign policy is based on the concept of "strategic depth" – ensuring that allies rise to prominence in Kabul in order to keep India, an arch-rival, on the fringes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ng-terror.html

[QUOTE]In an unprecedented public condemnation on Thursday, Admiral Mullen said that the country's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency was actively supporting a network linked to al Qaeda and blamed for an assault on the US embassy in Kabul last week.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c525462-4...#axzz1sGbbFH3i

A leaked US military report that says Pakistan still supports the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan

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The secret document, based on interrogations of thousands of captured fighters, says Pakistan’s intelligence agencies continue to help direct Taliban attacks, according to the BBC and The Times, which obtained copies.

The document is based on material from 27,000 interrogations with more than 4,000 captured Taliban, al-Qaeda and other foreign fighters and civilians, the BBC reported.

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The report says that Pakistan is aware of the location of Taliban leaders and that its continues to manipulate them “unabatedly.” “Senior Taliban leaders meet regularly with ISI personnel, who advise on strategy and relay any pertinent concerns of the government of Pakistan,” it said.

[mh16388]

Bro, this is what the TTP themselves claim (that they target only military and government personnel). The media will claim otherwise yet the media is faasiq- you cannot believe their claims without proof (which they never provide)

the ttp video al ghuraba shared, which i spoke against initially, has an occasion when the ttp 'scholar' admits he doesnt mind hitting schools and children.