Psychology, Psychoanalysis, Psychotherapy, Psychiatry

[Maripat]

We live in a world in which the shining Ummah completely lacks luster.
The times in which the best Ummah cuts a sorry figure.
Times in which the sons of Ummah hide their identity - they are ashamed of their association.
Times in which standards of excellence are in the hands of those people who are detractors of this Ummah.
There might be disciplines where Ummah is the rightful leader but mind is not exactly flooded with examples.
But matters related to psychology could be one area where might have a thing or two to tell the world.
Reason being the fact that our elders have continuously spent their lives in these pursuits.
This is the subject matter of mysticism.
Surprising not much is being discussed in this direction on SF.
Some how in this area too we have surrendered to the west - rather than Allah(SWT). May allah(SWT) forgive us.

So go ahead and do all you can to reverse the situation. Ask for Allah(SWT)'s help and bring a bastion to the fold of your beloved Prophet(PBUH).

At the moment here is the round up of the related threads.

(1) Islamic Psychology

Assalamu Alaykum warahmatullahee wabarakatuh,

I need a feed to Islamic Psychology. Please post some links you know related to any feild of Psychology and on any topic.

JazakAllah

No reply received by that sister.

(2) Essential Psychology of a Muslim
Link to this audio. One reply received.

(3) Power of Touch Psychology
Link to this place. No reply.

(4) Any Psychology/Psychiatry Majors Here?
That is a question. Two replies. No one comes forward.

(5) Is Learning Psychology Haram?
Most successful psychology thread at SF - largest number of replies. Number is 18.

(6) Sufi Psychology for Opening Heart
Gives this link. Two replies but not much info in the thread.

(7) Tasawwuf and Western Psychology : Do These Conflict?
Very short and faltering discussion.

(8) How to call Tasawwuf Islamic Psychology?
This is where we got talking but stopped at 21 posts. Views of this thread are even fewer then earlier one.

(9) Psychology of Backbiting
This video embeded.

(10) Islamic View of Psychology/Psychiatry

This was a question that apparently was answered. This thread has the largest number of views - two and half a grand.

(11) Sufism and Psychology- interview with Sheikh Ragip/Robert Frager

This one is from the new wave of activity on SF.

[mh16388]

recently a tragic incident at my university awoke many to the reality of seeking psychological solutions to problems. again the Islamic view was majorly ignored. people prefer going to a shrink than see what Islam actually says. i believe one should go to a shrink AND practice the cure Islam gives.

I find salat to be the best cure for anything. but im not averse to medicine.

i think this thread should be research based. where a tpopic should be chosen and then people bring about their individual researches. i have absolutely no idea what Islam says on these topics. maybe this would give people like me some leads in sha Allah

[Abdul1234]

I used to be a psychotherapist a few years back. It is a well payed job but eventually I gave it up because after several years of doing it, it became more and more clear to me that there are lots of issues with a Muslim working as a psychotherapist (this also applies to therapeutic counselling and other psychological therapies) with non Muslim clients - as in many areas psychotherapeutic ethics clash with Islamic ethics, especially when working with non-Muslim or sinful Muslim clients.

For example a married man comes to you and tells you he goes to gay clubs behind his wife's back - Islamic ethics dictate that you should warn the wife in some way (short of accusing the husband of zina or sodomy without witnesses), but (humanistic) psychotherapeutic ethics tell you that in such a case it is possible that you may bring up the issue of how these things affect his wife with him, but really at the end of the day you have to respect the autonomy of the client, value him with unconditional positive regard and as a psychotherapist, whatever school of thought you belong to you have to maintain near complete confidentiality in every situation short of ones where, for example, a client tells you he intends to do serious harm to a third party etc.

Furthermore there are various schools of psychotherapy that are either deviant (Freudian Analysis) or secular fundamentalist (Albert Ellis's REBT).

Similarly the study of psychology in general (especially in the West) is now dominated by materialist ideology and when studying psychology at university Muslims are faced with dilemmas when they are, for example, instructed to write essays on a subject from the perspective of evolutionary psychology etc.

Muslims need to be very careful if they enter into the fields of either Psychotherapy or Psychology.

Psychiatry on the other hand is a very different situation, to become a psychiatrist you first train as a medical doctor and then specialize in psychiatry. There may be a small amount of psychotherapy involved in psychiatry, but generally the psychiatrist is working from the biomedical model of health and their normal response to a mental illness is to prescribe medications - there are less pitfalls for the Muslims in this, but Muslim psychiatrists working in non-Muslim countries may still be faced with occasional issues.

For example a Muslim psychiatrist may very occasionally see a patient who is obviously suffering from jinn possession - yet they must treat them like a schizophrenic (a mental illness characterized by disordered thought processes - not split personality) as this is what 'modern' psychiatry generally classifies people as who have the symptoms of jinn possession.

[Abdul1234]

Should Muslims who are suffering from emotional problems or life crises go to a counsellor or and psychotherapist -

yes in my view they should

(but they should do this as well as discussing their situation with a Sheikh or a wise Muslim person not instead)

but if they can find a Muslim therapist it is best or a Jew or a Christian second best

they should avoid therapists who are Evangelical Christians or atheists as if they have the plague.


However they must be beware - most counselling and psychotherapy approaches contain kufr ideas deep within them therefore the Muslim client of a therapist needs to keep in mind that their therapist is basically coming from a non-Muslim perspective and that the underlying philosophy of the psychotherapy methodology that they are being treated with may be secular fundamentalist.

This means that Muslim in therapy should always keep it in their mind that they must not make their therapist a mentor of their in any subject in which they may encourage them to to haram things, challenge Islamic values or promote disbelief to them.

If any of these things occur then the Muslim client should stop going to this therapist and find another therapist agreeing with them before therapy begins ground rules that they must respect that they are working with a person with a set of existing Islamic
values - any challenge to which will be taken as a rejection of the clients autonomy and individualism.

Humanistic psychotherapists such as the Rogerian (Person Centered) Counsellors are amongst the best therapists for Muslims to go to as they very much respect the individual's choices and beliefs.

Another type of Humanistic psychotherapist is the Transactional Analyst, they are very good for helping people deal with interpersonal emotional issues.

Muslims very definitely must never, ever go to Freudian psychotherapists of any type,

they must never go to REBT or RET (rational emotive behaviour therapy) therapists as they will openly or subtly promote sin to them on the grounds that they say it will make them happy and atheism to them based on the idea that their religious beliefs are superstitions that stop them achieving rational happiness (I am not joking)

and they should be careful with Cognitive Behavioural Therapists (CBT) on the same grounds, however CBT is very common now and should not be rejected out of hand.

[Maripat]

You nearly made me cry brother.
We see kilometers long threads on theological hair splitting, the task that can rightfully be left to 'Ulama, but no discussion of the matters related to the interface of Islam with the rest of the world.
So thanks for the response.

I used to be a psychotherapist a few years back. It is a well payed job but eventually I gave it up because after several years of doing it, it became more and more clear to me that there are lots of issues with a Muslim working as a psychotherapist (this also applies to therapeutic counselling and other psychological therapies) with non Muslim clients - as in many areas psychotherapeutic ethics clash with Islamic ethics, especially when working with non-Muslim or sinful Muslim clients.

And we can solve these issues only if we could talk about them. I knew that psychotherapy views religion as a mental disease and hence the least we can conclude is that there are mighty issues that have to be tackled on this front. It is so painful that we just do not pay attention to this front.

For example a married man comes to you and tells you he goes to gay clubs behind his wife's back - Islamic ethics dictate that you should warn the wife in some way (short of accusing the husband of zina or sodomy without witnesses), but (humanistic) psychotherapeutic ethics tell you that in such a case it is possible that you may bring up the issue of how these things affect his wife with him, but really at the end of the day you have to respect the autonomy of the client, value him with unconditional positive regard and as a psychotherapist, whatever school of thought you belong to you have to maintain near complete confidentiality in every situation short of ones where, for example, a client tells you he intends to do serious harm to a third party etc.

It is so obvious a dilemma brother. I know of the people in this field who come from Christian background but they do not give up Christianity. They must be doing some impossible mental gymnastic of some sort to live a life that has both Christianity as well as Freud and co. Same about Hindus - but perennialism sort of pads them against any damage to their own psyche. But as far as Muslims are concerned we got to be little bit more serious about these matters. In the field of economics we at least hear a few names of Islamic scholars who at least talk about halaal business and the like but in this field of psychology I have run across only one blog so far.

Solution might be simple or difficult but we can reach it only if we seek it. How can we be so oblivious and for so long?

Furthermore there are various schools of psychotherapy that are either deviant (Freudian Analysis) or secular fundamentalist (Albert Ellis's REBT).

I'll invite you to give a brief account of these things, as well as the fat points of this field - at your own leisure.

Similarly the study of psychology in general (especially in the West) is now dominated by materialist ideology and when studying psychology at university Muslims are faced with dilemmas when they are, for example, instructed to write essays on a subject from the perspective of evolutionary psychology etc.

As I said earlier - who will worry about these things if not we? Many of these people who have faced these situations will be senior enough to open their mouths. I wonder where they are.

Muslims need to be very careful if they enter into the fields of either Psychotherapy or Psychology.

As usual in so many contemporary situation I do feel baffled by such problems. The problem is only compounded by loneliness. There are sufferers at least, if not the concerned people, who should be coming forward to look the problem in the face.

Psychiatry on the other hand is a very different situation, to become a psychiatrist you first train as a medical doctor and then specialize in psychiatry. There may be a small amount of psychotherapy involved in psychiatry, but generally the psychiatrist is working from the biomedical model of health and their normal response to a mental illness is to prescribe medications - there are less pitfalls for the Muslims in this, but Muslim psychiatrists working in non-Muslim countries may still be faced with occasional issues.

for the perspective - this one and above. For me it was merely a shot in the dark. May be others know the ground reality already but I'd not be sure of that.

For example a Muslim psychiatrist may very occasionally see a patient who is obviously suffering from jinn possession - yet they must treat them like a schizophrenic (a mental illness characterized by disordered thought processes - not split personality) as this is what 'modern' psychiatry generally classifies people as who have the symptoms of jinn possession.

Sigh! I do not know how much time will it take us to look in the eyes with the west and say yes there jinns.

Enjoyed your perspective.

[uber_mensch]

Western psychology operates based on faulty metaphysical postulates; that there is no soul, that our mind is only the emergent properties of a material substrate, the brain. This leads to a deterministic, mechanistic view of the psyche (which I might as means 'soul' in greek). So if you operate within the tradition of western psychology, you have to accept that you don't really have control of your actions, that you can't change your state just by changing the way you think to a better way (which was the accepted view of the soul in the ancient world as well as the muslim world) so you have to accept, if you're a western shrink, that the only way to help people is through medication. This all goes directly counter to islamic psychology, let alone our aqida.

Putting aside the fact that most psychiatrists don't really know what theyre doing, they'll just give you a medication and see if it works, even though it will most likely mess you up even more. We need to examine what exactly is meant by the term 'science'. It means a systematic formulation of knowledge, based on proofs. However people need to realise that just because something fits this description, that doesn't make it true. It is basically part of the culture now, that anything that is a 'science' is indisputably factual and true. This is not the case. As I mentioned earlier, western psychology is based on incorrect metaphysical principles. This is not only because these principles run counter to islam, but from a philosophical and epistemological point of view, it is very hard to justify a materialistic view of the soul. Even now, philosophers still cannot come to a proper theory on it. So since their foundation is wrong, they come to the wrong conclusions.

I think muslims should not become psychologists, period. It is complete and utter batil. In old times when you had some problems you went to see a shaykh, just as in catholic countries, you went to see a priest. This is the norm in human societies. Only now, because this scientistic mentality is a part of the culture do we find this deviation from the what has been the norm in human history. I think there must be some kind of causal connection between the contemporary explosion in mental illnesses and the whole outlook of modernity, which 'modern psychology' is a part of.

Personally I am quite fond of the ancient greek's psychology. The ethics of the Stoics and Aristotle are very much in line with the islamic view of the soul. Ghazali was quite influenced by them too.

[Abdul1234]

We live in a world in which the shining Ummah completely lacks luster.
The times in which the best Ummah cuts a sorry figure.
Times in which the sons of Ummah hide their identity - they are ashamed of their association.
Times in which standards of excellence are in the hands of those people who are detractors of this Ummah.
There might be disciplines where Ummah is the rightful leader but mind is not exactly flooded with examples.
But matters related to psychology could be one area where might have a thing or two to tell the world.
Reason being the fact that our elders have continuously spent their lives in these pursuits.
This is the subject matter of mysticism.
Surprising not much is being discussed in this direction on SF.
Some how in this area too we have surrendered to the west - rather than Allah(SWT). May allah(SWT) forgive us.

So go ahead and do all you can to reverse the situation. Ask for Allah(SWT)'s help and bring a bastion to the fold of your beloved Prophet(PBUH).

At the moment here is the round up of the related threads.

(1) Islamic Psychology

No reply received by that sister.

(2) Essential Psychology of a Muslim
Link to this audio. One reply received.

(3) Power of Touch Psychology
Link to this place. No reply.

(4) Any Psychology/Psychiatry Majors Here?
That is a question. Two replies. No one comes forward.

(5) Is Learning Psychology Haram?
Most successful psychology thread at SF - largest number of replies. Number is 18.

(6) Sufi Psychology for Opening Heart
Gives this link. Two replies but not much info in the thread.

(7) Tasawwuf and Western Psychology : Do These Conflict?
Very short and faltering discussion.

(8) How to call Tasawwuf Islamic Psychology?
This is where we got talking but stopped at 21 posts. Views of this thread are even fewer then earlier one.

(9) Psychology of Backbiting
This video embeded.

(10) Islamic View of Psychology/Psychiatry

This was a question that apparently was answered. This thread has the largest number of views - two and half a grand.

(11) Sufism and Psychology- interview with Sheikh Ragip/Robert Frager

This one is from the new wave of activity on SF.

In regards some of these issues the following things may be of interest...

you may also find that there are some interesting books on Islamic psychology by moderate westernized Shiites such as Fadlalla Haeri and followers of Pir Oveysi who are western psychologists, these contain some interesting insights but they obviously need to be treated with extreme caution (and possibly in one or two places a censors pen).

Hakeem Saleem Khan of Leicester runs a Nafsyat counselling/psychology course at the Mohsin institute in Leicester as part of his Tibb training course, but it is not cheap.

Abdullah Maynard who follows Sheikh Fadlalla Haeri used to run an government accredited Islamic counselling course in Luton, which was largely attended by Sunnis, but the last I heard about it was a few years ago and I do not know if it still runs.

You used to be able to a masters degree studying transpersonal psychology via Sufi psychology under Sheikh Ragip Frager, but I do not know if it still runs (you need a psychology related bachelors to get on the course).

[Abdul1234]

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

It is so obvious a dilemma brother. I know of the people in this field who come from Christian background but they do not give up Christianity. They must be doing some impossible mental gymnastic of some sort to live a life that has both Christianity as well as Freud and co. Same about Hindus - but perennialism sort of pads them against any damage to their own psyche. But as far as Muslims are concerned we got to be little bit more serious about these matters. In the field of economics we at least hear a few names of Islamic scholars who at least talk about halaal business and the like but in this field of psychology I have run across only one blog so far.

Solution might be simple or difficult but we can reach it only if we seek it. How can we be so oblivious and for so long?

Wa Alaikum Assalam

Muslim individuals who work in these fields need to specialize in working with Muslims if they can and perhaps to bend their professional codes a little to keep things halal when working with non-Muslims.

I think in the broader sense the solution has to come from the believing academics of the universities of the Muslim countries,

rather than just copying the West in everything the psychologists and psychiatrists of the Muslim countries have to flush everything that conflicts with Islam in what they know of human psychology and psychological therapies down the toilet

and then get together with the experts on Islamic Nafsyat psychology (basically the teachers of Tasawwuf) and then develop a modern form of psychology grounded both in Islamic wisdom and in experimental science.

If there was the will and the support to do this then it would be quite and easy task as the useful parts of 'modern' psychology, psychotherapy and the theories of psychiatric medicine are completely compatible with Islamic psychology,

the conflicting parts are simply philosophical additions that have been made to these sciences due to the confusion of the materialist academics in the west.

but the problem I think lies in the fact that the Muslim academics tend to be one person with one set of beliefs in the Masjid and then an adjusted dissimulating one when they are writing academic papers - on account of the fact if they mix their Islamic faith with their academic subject they will loose any respect that western academics have for them.

...until Muslim academics start to become assertive in their Islam the Islamicization of 'modern' knowledge will not occur in any field.

Maybe some of the Muslim academics are frightened to call for the Islamicization of 'modern' knowledge on account of what has happened to figures like the American Palestinian Ismail al-Faruqi who called for it very loudly in the 1980's, and was then mysteriously assassinated along with his family.

[Abdul1234]

The psychology or even parapsychology of Islam starts with a Hadeeth "Innamal aamalo binniyaat"
This obviously directs us to the power of thinking rightly.Once this is achieved,actingly rightly comes automatically.I request brothers to try and elaborate further on this point,to start with.jaakAllah

you may find this book by Ragip Frager relevant http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_...frager&f=false

[uber_mensch]

I think the solution has to come from the believing academics of the universities of the Muslim countries,

rather than just copying the West in everything the psychologists and psychiatrists of the Muslim countries have to flush everything that conflicts with Islam in what they know of human psychology and psychological therapies down the toilet

and then get together with the experts on Islamic Nafsyat psychology (basically the teachers of Tasawwuf) and then develop a modern form of psychology grounded both in Islamic wisdom and in experimental science.

If there was the will and the support to do this then it would be quite and easy task as the useful parts of 'modern' psychology, psychotherapy and the theories of psychiatric medicine are completely compatible with Islamic psychology,

the conflicting parts are simply philosophical additions that have been made to these sciences due to the confusion of the materialist academics in the west.

but the problem I think lies in the fact that the Muslim academics tend to be one person with one set of beliefs in the Masjid and then an adjusted dissimulating one when they are writing academic papers - on account of the fact if they mix their Islamic faith with their academic subject they will loose any respect that western academics have for them.

...until Muslim academics start to become assertive in their Islam the Islamicization of 'modern' knowledge will not occur in any field.

Maybe some of the Muslim academics are frightened to call for the Islamicization of 'modern' knowledge on account of what has happened to figures like the American Palestinian Ismail al-Faruqi who called for it very loudly in the 1980's, and was then mysteriously assassinated along with his family.

Assalamu alaykum,

Personally I think that since most western sciences are based on false principles, it will be difficult to 'islamise' them. Modernity itself is based on false principles. It will be like trying to make a square circle. It's interesting to note that most muslims calling for this are themselves modernist muslims. Modernist in the sense that they think we 'need' all this modern technology in order to be successful, and they believe in 'progress'. Progress is a notion that is antithetical to any tradition, islam or otherwise. We all know that islam's view on time and history is that it is devolutionary, the prophet said that things will consistently get worse over time. This idea that things will be better in the future, progress, is a western notion, and a specifically modernist one not shared by catholics until recently. It's also interesting to note that the muslims calling for the islamisation of science are usually not scientists, or don't seem to understand the metaphysical postulates behind modern science. You can't have modern science without these, and these postulates are completely antithetical to islam. (As a side note, People don't seem to realise that the reason christianity has basically failed in the west is because of modernism.)

The main goal of the natural sciences is the manipulation of nature, so they only care about theories that will enable a greater ability to manipulate nature. Truth isn't really under consideration, in fact many don't even believe truths exist. This mentality isn't compatible with our religion.

Think about it this way, a muslim scientist works in a tradition of KUFR, a system founded upon batil and falsehood, lets say this straightly. The system was built upon principles that are contra to islam, and he must accept these in order to work in that field. So he must either compartmentalise his belief, (or be ignorant of it anyway) or not be a scientist. This is a serious problem. People don't realise that accepting a lot of premises that sciences are based on are outright kufr. The solution is not to continue working in these fields of kufr, but to create or return to our own traditional forms, and use them to confront modern ones, in the same way asharis confronted greek philosophy and asharism itself became a synthesis of greek ideas, purified of kufr, and pure islam. But certainly you can't keep working in a field of western science, working with their false principles and expect it to become 'islamic', because that isn't possible since the science itself requires the principles that we cannot accept. What I mean is, we need to create our own forms, not adopt and modify the forms of the kuffar.

Personally I think the main problem is the compartmentalisation of the mind that most people have in our times. They compartmentalise their belief about islam, and their belief about their science, and don't even think that these conflict. Traditionally people thought synthetically, you would consider all parts of knowledge when coming to conclusions, synthesising all aspects of knowledge into one. Now it is the case that when you come to one area you think in one way, and in another you think in another way.