Technical inputs regarding Rafayadain

[al_Zayn]

Here is a hadith from 'Ali it was his practice not to raise hands except the beginning, 'Asim Bin Kulayb's father saw 'Ali raising his hands in the first takbeer and thereafter he did not repeat it and was authenticated by al-Hafiz Ibn Hajr al-'Asqalani in his book al-Dirayah:

الدراية في تخريج احاديث الهداية
http://ia600306.us.archive.org/29/it...raya_hajar.pdf

اخرج الطحاوي من طريق عاصم بن كليب عن ابيه ان عليا كان يرفع يديه اول تكبيرة من الصلاة ثم لا يعود

رجاله ثقات وهو موقوف

(al-Dirayah Fi Takhrij Ahadith al-Hidayah Li Ibn Hajr pg. 152)

[mohtashims]

Did I read and understood this link properly ?

http://attahawi.files.wordpress.com/...-al-yadayn.pdf

does it say on page 3-8 that there are two ahadees in tirmidhi from ibn masood r.z and the objection most scholars had as mentioned in the OP is on the other hadees and not the second one reported by ibn masood r.z?

If so, can someone help post both the ahadees from ibn masood r.z of which one scholars in the OP took objections to and the other that was not objected by them ?

[mohtashims]

Hadith of Abdullah bin Mas’ood (radh.) on rafa yadain

From Sufyân; from ‘Asim bin Kulayb; from ‘Abur-Rahmân ibn al-Aswad; from ‘Alqama who said, ‘ibn Mas‘ûd said,

“Shall I not pray with you the prayer of the Messenger of Allâh (SAW)” so he prayed and he did not raise his hands except the first time.’

[Sunan Tirmidhi 59/1, H. 257 and said it is Hasan, also by Ibn Hazam in al-Muhalla 87, 88/4, and said it is Sahih]

1. Is this hadees with the sanad from Tirmidhi as stated or Nasa'i ?

2. Also, can someone help me know what was the practise and fatwa of "Imam Ibn al-Mubarak" r.e.h. and his students.

Can someone please check and update me ?

[rqsnnt]

....

2. Also, can someone help me know what was the practise and fatwa of "Imam Ibn al-Mubarak" r.e.h. and his students.

Can someone please check and update me ?

Ibn al-Mubarak declared it da'if and said, "the hadith of ibn Mas'ud is not established." as mentioned by at-Tirmidhi.


And (Abdullah) bin al-Mubarak said: I was praying along with Nu’man bin Thabit (Abu Hanifah), then I did rafa yadain, He (Abu Hanifah) said to me: “I was afraid that you would fly away”. So I said: “When I didn’t fly at first (rafa yadain), then I couldn’t have flied at the second (rafa yadain) also. [Juzz-Ul-Rafa-Al-Yadeen-By-Imam-Bukhari]

[rqsnnt]

Assalamu alaykum

Br Mohtshim:

May not be to start a debate with Gair muqallideen, but to satisfy yourselves I recommend you to read this book "daleel-e-namaaz" by Mufti Shuibullah miftaahi sahib in urdu.

https://islamicbookslibrary.wordpres...-khan-miftahi/

Brother ahamed_sharif, Is there any EN version of this book?

[rqsnnt]

Did I read and understood this link properly ?

http://attahawi.files.wordpress.com/...-al-yadayn.pdf

....

After download translation-of-ila-al-sunan-section-on-raf-al-yadayn.pdf i got following in 1st page

Chapter on Not Raising the Hands in other than the Opening & the Command to be Still in Salah ‘Allamah Zafar Ahmad al-‘Uthmani
Translated by Zameelur Rahman

1. Narrated from Tamim ibn Tarafah from Jabir ibn Samurah (Allah be pleased with him): He said:
Allah‟s Messenger (Allah bless him and grant him peace) came out to us and said: “Why do I see you raising your hands like they are the tails of wild horses? Be still in Salah!” Muslim narrated it (1:181).

Can any one provide Chapter name of this Hadith? I mean in which chapter this hadith is mentioned?
Is this hadith mentioned not to do raf-al-yadayn during before & after Ruku? If yes where it's mentioned?

I got followings in Sahih Muslim, but hadiths r not showing that this is raf-al-yadayn before & after Ruku!!!!

Chapter 24 : THE COMMAND TO OBSERVE PRAYER WITH TRANQUILLITYAND CALMNESS AND PROHIBITION OF MAKING GESTURES WITH HANDS AND LIFTING THEMWHILE PRONOUNCING SALUTATION, ANDTHE COMPLETING OF FIRST ROWSAND JOINING TOGETHER WELL IN THEM

Book 4, Number 0864:

Jabir b. Samura reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: How is it that I see you lifting your hands like the tails of headstrong horses? Be calm in prayer.He (the narrator) said: He then again came to us and saw us (sitting) in circles; he said: How is it that I see you in separate groups? He (the narrator) said: He again came to us and said: Why don't you draw yourselves up in rows as angels do in the presence of their Lord?We said: Messenger of Allah, bow do the angels draw themselves up in rows in the presence of their Lord?He (the Holy Prophet) said: They make the first rows complete and keep close together in the row.

Book 4, Number 0865:

This hadith has been narrated by A'mash with the same chain of transmitters.

Book 4, Number 0866:

Jabir b. Samura reported: When we said prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), we pronounced: Peace be upon you and Mercy of Allah, peace be upon you and Mercy of Allah, and made gesture with the hand on both the sides.Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him said: What do you point out with your hands as if they are the tails of headstrong horses?This is enough for you that one should place one's hand on one's thigh and then pronounce salutation upon one's brother on the right side and then on the left.

Book 4, Number 0867:

Jabir b. Samura reported: We said our prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and, while pronouncing salutations, we made gestures with our hands (indicating) "Peace be upon you, peace be upon you." The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) looked towards us and said: Why is it that you make gestures with your hands like the tails of headstrong horses?When any one of you pro- nounces salutation (in prayer) he should only turn his face towards his companion and should not make a gesture with his hand.

[al_Zayn]

Chapter heading are the authors understanding of those ahadith, and not necessarily every other Scholars understanding of it.

Some Scholars are of the opinion those ahadith are relating to difference events that happened;

خرج علينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

and

كنا إذا صلينا مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم


Anyone who know basic arabic will know that whether or not these ahadtih are referring to the same thing or something different will know at the least that the above events happened on different occasions.

Secondly the narration fully reads;

خرج علينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ونحن رافعو أيدينا في الصلاة فقال ما بالهم رافعين أيديهم في الصلاة كأنها أذناب الخيل الشمس اسكنوا في الصلاة


It says when Rasulullah came upon them they were already praying, and they were raising their hands IN Prayer, Rasulullah: saw: scolded them saying why do they raise their hands like restive horses and then to remain calm in prayer.

Now whether or not this mentions before Ruku or after Ruku is not a problem because "Fis-Salah" (in the Prayer) clearly ecnompasses any type of raising the hands, wherever it maybe be in the Prayer.

Wallahu A'lam.