Fiqh Rulings - Need Answers

[abuhajira]

Amal Katheer does break salah according to hanafi madhab.

merely flipping with finger is not amal katheer, it is the combination of different acts in holding, looking, flipping etc that is amal katheer. I hope that clarifies.

[mohtashims]

JazakAllah Maulana AbuHajira,

Can you please clarify this if I understood your explanation.

Holding Quran in one hand, turning the pages of the Quran and following what the Qari[Imam] is Reciting like some people do during Taraweeh Salah does not break his Salah.

However, Reading / Reciting / Repeating (vocally) from Quran along with the Imam (same as what the Imam is reciting) in Taraweeh invalidates his Salah according to Hanafi Fiqh.

Is the above understanding correct ? Also, would you know which schools agree with this position of the Ahnaf and those who disagree ?

[SASLAMS]

Amal Katheer does break salah according to hanafi madhab.

merely flipping with finger is not amal katheer, it is the combination of different acts in holding, looking, flipping etc that is amal katheer. I hope that clarifies.

staying in Johannesburg one thing we notice with ahnaaf in general & even some ulama is that they cant stand still, the moment the salah begins its a scratch here & a scratch there, then its looking at & cleaning the nails, or rubbing the beard. would these actions be considered amal katheer.
as shafi's it was drilled into us at maktabs that you dont move, even if a bee was to sting you-you dont. so when we see how the ahnaaf scratch & play with their beards in salah it strikes as something very wrong. so I was under the impression that all these movements would not break the salah for the ahnaaf. & it was only after studying some fiqh that I came to know that in the shafi' madhab only very big movements like jumping or continuous movement would break the salah.

[abuhajira]

JazakAllah Maulana AbuHajira,

Can you please clarify this if I understood your explanation.

Holding Quran in one hand, turning the pages of the Quran and following what the Qari[Imam] is Reciting like some people do during Taraweeh Salah does not break his Salah.

How would one put the quran aside while going in ruku and sujood?

However, Reading / Reciting / Repeating (vocally) from Quran along with the Imam (same as what the Imam is reciting) in Taraweeh invalidates his Salah according to Hanafi Fiqh.

Is the above understanding correct ? Also, would you know which schools agree with this position of the Ahnaf and those who disagree ?

I do not know of other madhahib. The mas'ala of reading from quran is for a mufrad or imam himself and not muqtadi.

But if muqtadi reads something and then imam listens to that and take talqeen from it for his qira'a, then the salah of all the musallies break.

Interesting point: get an ipod nano that can clip on your sleeve and can show Quran on it. use your thumb to flip through it and that will not make your salah invalid. However I do feel that taraweeh is more about listening to quran rather than following it on mushaf.

[abuhajira]

staying in Johannesburg one thing we notice with ahnaaf in general & even some ulama is that they cant stand still, the moment the salah begins its a scratch here & a scratch there, then its looking at & cleaning the nails, or rubbing the beard. would these actions be considered amal katheer.
as shafi's it was drilled into us at maktabs that you dont move, even if a bee was to sting you-you dont. so when we see how the ahnaaf scratch & play with their beards in salah it strikes as something very wrong. so I was under the impression that all these movements would not break the salah for the ahnaaf. & it was only after studying some fiqh that I came to know that in the shafi' madhab only very big movements like jumping or continuous movement would break the salah.

Playing with the beard during salah is indeed disrespectful. Excessive movement will be seen as amal katheer. However, a single flinch to pull that knot from the beard will not be amal katheer on its own.

This is an area many of us need to work on, i.e to create sukoon and itminaan in salah. Too many people with too much fiddling. sometime toe rubbing, sometime lookng at one's nails. playing with feet etc etc. Destroys the total khdhu' and khushu' of the salah.

[SASLAMS]

How would one put the quran aside while going in ruku and sujood?

you could put the quran under your arm, or during ruku you can make the ruku with one hand (is touching the knees wajib for ahnaaf- for shafi's it isnt) & hold quran with other hand. when in sajida you could place the quraan on a small table on the side of you or infront of you. you could also have a small pillow or a fold up a scarf & place it where your chest would be in in sajidah & make you sajidah over it. if its a small quraan then you could just put it into your shirt pocket.


I do not know of other madhahib. The mas'ala of reading from quran is for a mufrad or imam himself and not muqtadi.
is is jaiz for shafis because we can read something regardless of the literature & even understand it without harm

Interesting point: get an ipod nano that can clip on your sleeve and can show Quran on it. use your thumb to flip through it and that will not make your salah invalid. However I do feel that taraweeh is more about listening to quran rather than following it on mushaf.

point taken. it is anoying when everyone tries to correct the imaam all at once when we reach surah Yaseen, mulk & Amma juz, cany imagin if we all stood with quraans correcting each mistake.

[abuhajira]

[/B]

point taken. it is anoying when everyone tries to correct the imaam all at once when we reach surah Yaseen, mulk & Amma juz, cany imagin if we all stood with quraans correcting each mistake.

I can very well imaging. But that brings us to another crucial point. If one does use such a device and corrects the Imam, and the Imam takes that correction, then the salah will break. So they can have the cake but not eat it

[mohtashims]

I can very well imaging. But that brings us to another crucial point. If one does use such a device and corrects the Imam, and the Imam takes that correction, then the salah will break. So they can have the cake but not eat it

I am sorry for being naive, but why is then giving "lukma" to the imam while he is forgetting to recite an aayat not break his Salah ?

[abuhajira]

I am sorry for being naive, but why is then giving "lukma" to the imam while he is forgetting to recite an aayat not break his Salah ?

under normal salah, the imam and all the muqtadi are in one salah. If the imam forgets an ayah and a muqtadi from the same congregation give the luqma from his memory, then that does not break the salah. But if the imam forgets and someone else sitting out of that salah gives the luqmah, and imam takes that cue, then that breaks the salah.

It is same like if imam breaks wudhu, he can apoint a khalifa from his muqtadi to start from where he stopped. but he cannot appoint somone from out of that congregation to become the imam.

In our case, the muqtadi taking aid from the quran to read out the luqma is same as taking aid from some one from out of that congregation.

[SASLAMS]

I can very well imaging. But that brings us to another crucial point. If one does use such a device and corrects the Imam, and the Imam takes that correction, then the salah will break. So they can have the cake but not eat it

this wouldnt break the salah for shafi's however, i aksed the question- if husband & wife were to perform tarweeh or tahajjud together, could she correct him if he made a mistake, the answer was yes- i asked if she stands with a mushaf & it was also yes.