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Thread: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

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    Question Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Can someone explain if the below as recieved has discrepancies ?

    Allah (Ta’ala) said in verse 59 of Surah An-Nisa:

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ

    “O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad (saw)), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority (Ulul ‘Amr). (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day, that is better and more suitable for final determination.”

    This verse made it clears that one should obey Allah, His Messenger and those in authority, and this includes rulers and scholars. But the obedience to rulers and scholars is in matters agreed upon, and in matters of difference, the believers should refer to Allah and His Messenger, and this means that one should not obey a ruler in disobedience to Allah and His Prophet, neither a scholar whose saying opposes Quran and Hadith.

    So in this verse Allah has clearly separated obedience to rulers and scholars from the obedience to Allah and to His Prophet, and has made two levels:

    First level: Allah and His Prophet who should be referred to in matters of disagreement. And this is the final authority for Muslims one cannot oppose, and referring to them constitutes belief in Allah and in the Last Day.

    Second level: Rulers and scholars who should be obeyed if there is no disagreement.

    This verse is clear that in matters of disagreements, we should refer to the Quran and the Sunnah. Shaykh Muhammad Husayn Al-Battalwi quoted this verse to show that Taqlid Shakhsi (Taqlid of only one particular scholar) is void, and he also asked ten questions to the Deobandiyah in the form of a challenge.

    The Deobandi scholar who answered him was Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi, he first wrote “Adillah Al-Kamilah” and then “Idah ul Adillah” to answer this challenge to his group.

    “Idah ul Adillah” was first published in 1299.

    In the second edition published by Asghar Husayn in 1330, Mahmud ul Hasan wrote:

    “As obedience to rulers under orders is considered as obedience to rulers superior, likewise the obedience to the noble Prophets and preponderantly (obedience) to those in authority (Ulul Amr) will be considered as obedience to Allah by itself. And considering those who obey the Prophets and different people of authority (Ulul Amr) as being outside the obedience to Allah will be like some people lacking of reason considering those who obey the orders of rulers under orders as being outside the obedience to superior rulers

    This is why Allah revealed “If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger and to those among you (Muslims) in authority (Ulul Amr)” and it is clear that in this verse “those in authority” (Ulul Amr) are nothing but other than the Messengers. This verse makes it clear that that obedience to the Messengers and preponderantly to those in authority (Ulul Amr) is obligatory.

    You (Ahlul Hadith) have seen this verse: “Refer it to Allah and to His Messenger if you believe in Allah and in the Last day” but you did not know that in the same Quran in which this verse is, there is also the verse that Ahqar (most despised: meaning himself, a terminology used by Sufi to describe themselves) presented.

    It is not surprising that as usual you have considered these two verses as contradictory and you have given the Fatwa that one abrogated the other. Mujtahid Sahib, I am saying that hoping to make void Taqlid in matters of difference (with this verse) is similar to the story of a hungry man would say two and two Rotis (Indian breads) make four” End of Mahmud ul Hasan’s words.

    Click on the link below to see the scan of this second edition, and this book is present in Maktabah Rehmaniyah, Model Town Lahore, which is the library of Jamiyah Rehmaniyah.

    http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL177.../321350036.jpg

    So the words “And to Ulul Amr” have been added by Mahmud ul Hasan to show that in matters of disagreement, one should also refer to the scholars, and their obedience is like the obedience to the Prophets, while Allah ordered to obey scholars, but in matters of disagreements the final verdict is that of Allah and His Messenger.

    While Allah gave us a clear message and differentiated between the obedience to the scholars and rulers and the obedience to Allah and to His Messenger, and conditioned the first one by the final authority that is Allah and the Messenger, the people of Taqlid have made obedience to scholars to the same level as obedience to the Messengers, and as they could not find any verse of the Quran for this, they invented one.

    So not only they opposed Allah’s differentiation between Messengers and rulers/scholars, but they invented their own religion in which obedience to human beings who make mistakes is on the same level as obedience to Prophets who receive revelation from Allah.


    Some Deobandi answered that it was a mistake from Mahmud ul Hasan and not an alteration like in the magazine “Furqan” of April 2000, Luknaw, p 33: “When this mistake happened, he (Mahmud ul Hasan) was not Shaykh ul Hind, only a teacher since 9 years”.

    And he brought other doubts saying how could he do that, when there were a lot of Hufaz (Quran memorizers) in every town?

    One should know that when this book was first published in 1299 H, at that time Mahmud ul Hasan had already taught the “Sunnan” of At-Tirmidhi since 6 years, the “Sahih” of Al-Bukhari since 4 years. He was 30 years old. So after teaching such great books, he had a lot of knowledge. If he had not, why did he accept the challenge from a great scholar of Ahlul Hadith, he should have left this matter to his elders?

    And it was Mahmud ul Hasan’s routine to read his books to his teacher Qasim An-Nanotwi who was a memorizer of the Quran.

    And An-Nanotwi’son, Muhammad Ahmad was in charge of publishing the first edition.

    1000 copies must have been published first time, and there might be so many readers. And there is a great probability that the Deoabandi elders (Gangohi, Thanvi, Kasmiri, Ahmad Husayn…) had read this answer to a great scholar of the Ahlul Hadith, as it came to a challenge to the Deobandi group, so it is difficult for them not to have read this answer to this challenge to their group.

    30 years later, the second edition came and Mahmud ul Hasan was 60 years old, at that time he was called Shaykhul Hind by the Deobandiyah. Asghar Husayn published the second edition, and he is from the Deobandi major scholars. He wrote a biography of Mahmud ul Hasan and was very close to him.

    At the end of second edition, from which the extracts were given, there are words of Asghar Husayn: “This precious book, whose great value is known only from people of knowledge, was only published once in 1299…and some pages of the first edition were not well printed and it lost its beauty…Some companions felt the need and asked the Ahqar (himself) to obtain recompense for its publication. And the person (himself) took it with happiness to publish Hazrat Ustad’s Fuyudh Ilmiyah (lights of knowledge), and I corrected the old manuscript carefully and with a lot of efforts…and because of my defective understanding, I could not understand some ( sentences), so I took help from the Author himself and corrected it…” End of Asghar Husayn’s words.

    So 30 years later, 1000 people must have read this book, maybe much more, Deobandi major scholars must have had a look, Asghar Husayn checked it and corrected the mistakes, and despite all of this, this mistake in quoting the verse of the Quran was not removed, so it is much more than an error.

    Rather, the verse 59 of Surah An-Nisa was:

    “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad (saw)), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority (Ulul ‘Amr). (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day”

    And Mahmud ul Hasan quoted this verse as such: “(And) If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and to His Messenger and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority (Ulul ‘Amr)”

    And he claimed this verse to be different from this one: “Refer it to Allah and to His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last day”

    While the verse is the same one, and one can see Mahmud ul Hasan carefully quoted them so to make them appear as two verses. In the first one he quoted the parts of the beginning “If you differ in anything then refer…” and in the second he quoted the end of the verse “if you believe in Allah and Last day” so his aim was to prove that there are two verses: One tells to refer to Allah and to His Prophet and to those in authority in matters of disagreements, and the other tells to refer to Allah and to His Prophet, so one verse is to be understood with the other.

    While there is no verse that tells to refer to those in authority in matters of differences. And Mahmud ul Hasan in both cases did not quote the verse fully, while in such matters one should have quoted full verses.

    And these matters are about obedience to Allah and His Messenger, they are matters relating to the creed of Muslims and submission to Allah and His Messenger. So these verses are among fundamentals of the Muslim creed, how is it possible to err in quoting them?

    So the topic is clear, and this error remaining in the book thirty years after is clear that it is a deliberate alteration in the Quran, and specifically when the proof is being established with the added parts.

    And the disease of blind Taqlid, Ta’asub has lead its people to the level of competing with the Jews and the Christians in their alteration of the Books of Allah. Shaytan has made their evils actions look beautiful to them, and they legislated a religion for which Allah did not send any revelation.

    Prisoners of their desire, blinded by their love of Imam Abu Hanifah, they want to put their Imams to the same level of the Prophet (saw).

    This is why Mahmud ul Hasan wrote in his “Taqrir Tirmidhi” in the chapter of transactions:

    "What is obtained is that the topic of Khyar is among important topics and Abu Hanifah contradicted in it the majority and a lot of people from the first and later generations, they wrote Rasail in refutation of his (Abu Hanifa)'s Madhab on this topic and Maulana Shah Waliyullah Muhadith gave preference in his writings to the Madhab of Ash-Shafi'i taking evidence from the Ahadith and Nusus (religious texts), and likewise our Shaykh gave preference to his Madhab and said the truth and justice in this topic is to give preference to Ash-Shafi'i and we are Muqalid and the Taqlid of our Imam Abu Hanifa is obligatory upon us. Allah knows best"


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"


    Brother why do you keep wasting time with this trash?
    The man mentioned in the article, Husayn Batalwi was a staunch supporter of the British and a great fitna.
    Mujhse bekas ki dawlat pe laakhon durood, Mujhse bebas ki quwwat pe laakhon salaam,
    Hum ghareebon ke aaqa pe behad durood, Hum faqeeron ki sarwat pe laakhon salaam.


    www.jayshemuhabbat.blogspot.com
    www.drabutamim.blogspot.com
    www.shiningblades.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu_Tamim View Post

    Brother why do you keep wasting time with this trash?
    The man mentioned in the article, Husayn Batalwi was a staunch supporter of the British and a great fitna.
    I completely agree with you nor do I pay heed to the truthness of the article.

    However, wanted to learn-share this, if someone has already explained / refuted such claims.

    It's for the ummah that stands on dicy grounds, and it is the saying of our Ulema that they should refute and defend any such allegation that comes across. I am quoting Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi d.b and Maulana Khalid Mahmood d.b


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    Senior Member At Tayyib's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Quote Originally Posted by mohtashims View Post
    I completely agree with you nor do I pay heed to the truthness of the article.

    However, wanted to learn-share this, if someone has already explained / refuted such claims.

    It's for the ummah that stands on dicy grounds, and it is the saying of our Ulema that they should refute and defend any such allegation that comes across. I am quoting Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi d.b and Maulana Khalid Mahmood d.b
    Is it beneficial knowledge that you are pursuing?
    Request for duas and forgiveness from one and all.

    Some Interesting Threads

    The Heart and it's Functions
    Ikhtilaf of the Akabir on the Indo-Pak Partition
    Rethinking Education


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Some brothers get influenced by such allegations and frankly we do not have any Aalim qualified enough that they or me can walk up to who would answer and explain and thus clarify them.

    Hence it is beneficial in that regards.


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    This is regarding one of the most important ascepts of deen "Taqleed Shakshi" so has this Quranic Aayat not been debated and discussed earlier with Taqleed or Imam rejectors ? If so, please share.


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Alhumdullillah, I found an answer to the article by Ahle-Hadith.

    TAQLEED IN THE QURAN
    THE QUR'AN AND TAQLEED

    The guiding principles of taqleed are mentioned in the Qur'an.

    The First Verse


    {O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you.} (4:59)

    The ulul amr (those in authority) are said by some to be the Muslim rulers and governors and by others to be the jurists. The second explanation is by Sayyidina Jabir ibn Abdullah (rad) Abdullah ibn Abbas (rad) ( This tafseer of Abdullah ibn Abbas is reported by Mu'amiyah ibn Salih from Ali ibn Abu Talhah. (Ibn Jarir v5 p88). This is the strongest line of transmissiori of his report (AI-ltqan # 80), Mujahid (ra), Ata ibn Abu Rabah (ra), Ata ibn as-Sa'ib (ra), Hasan Basri (ra), Abu al-Aaliyah (ra) and many others. lmam Razi (ra) has preferred this explanation citing many. arguments. He said:
    It is preferable to apply the meaning ulama to ulul amr in this verse(Tafseer Kabeer v3 p334.)

    Imam Abu Bakr Jassas (ra) found no contra*diction in both the Ahadith. Rather both meanings are valid. The rulers need to be. obeyed in political matters
    while the ulama must be obeyed in issues pertaining to


    Shari'ah(Ahkam ul Qur'an; Jassas v2 p256). Allamah ibn al-Qayyim said that obedience to the rulers leads finally to obedience to the scholars of religion because the rulers obey the ulama in matters of Shari'ah

    (ilam ul-Muqi'een, Ibn Qayyim vI p7)


    Anyway, the verse asks 'the Muslims to obey Allah and His Messenger. and the ulama and jurists who explain the words of Allah and His Messenger. and this (last) obedience is taqleed.
    The next portion of this verse is:


    {Then if you quarrel on anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day.}
    (11 :59)
    According to the above explanation, it is a continuous sentence in which the mujtahideen are addressed. Abu Bakr Jassas (ra)wrote in support of ulama as 'those in aurhority'.
    That Allah's words, if you quarrel follow
    immediately His statement about ulul amr (those in authority) is evidence that ulul amr are the jurists, because Allah has commanded all men to obey them. Then, after saying, if you quarrel..."", He commanded the ulul amr that they should refer back to Allah's Book and His Messenger's sunnah that in which they differ. This command could be directed only to the jurists because the mass s and the unknowledgeable cannot be of that standard and they do not know how they have to refer back any matter to Allah's Book and the sunnah. And they do not know how to derive evidence for new issues. So, it is the ulama who are addressed here.)
    The famous scholar of Ahl Hadith, Allamah Nawwab Siddiq Hasan Khan (ra) has also confirmed in his exegesis that the words of the Qur'an in this verse are addressed to the Mujtahadeen.


    And obviously this is an address by itself and it is directed to the Mujtahids.
    So, it is not correct to conclude that those who are not competent to make ijtihad may refer to the Qur'an and
    . Hadith directly in connection with disputed issues and derive their conclusions. Rather, the first sentence of the verse addresses those people who cannot derive commands directly from the Qur'an and sunnah. It is their duty to obey Allah and His Messenger .A by asking for rulings' and explanations from the ulul amr and conducting themselves on it. The second sentence addresses the mujtahideen. They are directed to turn to Allah's Book and the Messenger's .A sunnah and deduce comm nds. So, in the first sentence the muqallid is commanded to make taqleed and in the second mujtahid to make ijtihad.

    I would really appreciate if brothers get together answer the other posts that I have shared and also they may wish to add to this if they find neccessary !!

    I am happy ALLAH by means of Ulema is helping us understand deen and keeping off such accusitions by answering them.


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Why are you so into refuting the salafi's?

    Occupy yourself with beneficial knowledge.


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"



    I'll have to read the original text again but off the top of my head, it's a mistake, simple as that. Allamah Khalid Mahmood Sahib pointed out that the author of Mishkat made a similar one when quoting from the Qur'an in his famous book and presumably its still being published with that mistake in it (else how would Allamah sahib have discovered it?). In addition, our Ulema have a habit of doing explanatory translations and not litral and direct ones at times, to facilitate understanding. This may have happended here too. Allah knws best.
    "Whoever acts upon what he knows, Almighty Allah bestows upon him
    the knowledge of things not known to him"
    (Fazaa'il-e-A'maal, Virtues of the Holy Qur'an, Part 1, under Hadith 8)


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    Default Re: Ahle Hadees article "Tahrif of the Quran by Mahmud ul Hasan Deobandi"

    Quote Originally Posted by ImamGhazzaali View Post
    Why are you so into refuting the salafi's?

    Occupy yourself with beneficial knowledge.
    Brother Ghazzaali Salam,

    Can you please listen to

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS8-A...eature=g-all-u

    Inorder to know why we need to refute pseudo-salafis on this and other threads of mine.


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