Sharia in Yemen

[mh16388]

Well actually I had the opposite impression, especially since almost the only objections came from an open Pakistani nationalist fan of the government stooge Zaid Hamid..

i thought colonel hardstone made very good remarks regarding ttp. as easily as one can dismiss claims made by mehsud's cousin about him we can also dismiss some al-qaeda person's comments in favor of mehsud. thats only fair.

[ahmad12]

i thought colonel hardstone made very good remarks regarding ttp. as easily as one can dismiss claims made by mehsud's cousin about him we can also dismiss some al-qaeda person's comments in favor of mehsud. thats only fair.

No, because this Mehsud person has no known links to Baitullah Mehsud other than being a blood relation whereas the Al Qaeda leaders have spoekn in favour of the TTP and Baitullah Mehsud ON VIDEO and these are the same Al Qaeda that are fighting alongside the Afghan Taliban and know of Mullah Umar's views (if Mullah Umar was set against the TTP, why would he allow Al Qaeda to help the TTP, visit them and so forth?)

[ahmad12]

how about you try and refute everything i said in that post one by one. make sure not to omit anything.

Why do you not refute anything I have said, or the video's I have linked? Is it because you cannot refute clear evidence that shows the TTP are linked with the Afghan Taliban?

starting from the point about quaid e azam.

i'll wait.
*

He said the man was a shia; big whoop. Many people think he was a shia, just do a cursory search of sunniforum and you will find threads with complete discussions and evidence for and against. Does believing the man was a shia mean the Mufti does not know the fiqh of jihad?

just because someone thinks other people are murtad they can kill the other?i may think my next neighbour is murtad because he plays loud music. should i go and kill him? just because you have a beard, and can speak arabic with tajweed and know a thing or two about shariah doesn't make you fit to do takfir of entire pakistani government and population. and then asserting that you can kill them.how is that shariah?

It's as if you don't listen to anything except Geo News. Not ANYONE can make takfeer but the Ulema can. Go and ask your local Ulema if allying with the kuffar against the Muslims makes you an apostate or not, then let me know what they say. In the video of Maulana Ismatullah Muaviya, he even gives references and daleel to show that such is the case. Perhaps you did not watch it. It is for precisely this reason that the Afghan Taliban fight against the Afghan National Army. Why do you not have a problem when those people are targeted but have a problem when the Pak Army (who do the SAME thing) are targeted?

i study and work in a university which has army administration and also has a full corps stationed there. we used to travel by bus to our uni (in a uni bus) every morning during my undergrad and then back to our homes in evening.
so just because we are studying there, (me and all our classmates who traveled by bus were civilians) should we be slaughtered?should our bus be attacked? should our class rooms be bombed?

No. The targets aren't civilians, and this is what the TTP have always said but you seem to dismiss their own video's and believe what the kufr government of your country tells you instead (because somehow they are reliable)

this is what happened in kamrah. and that 'scholar' said what?yeah he said 'they werent kids they were grown ups'. this is inhuman.

No, he first disputed that they were not children (from the Sharia perspective). He then went on to say that sometimes civilians die in a war and the books of fiqh mention this. Even in a case where Muslim shields are being used, it is permissible to attack the enemy despite knowing some of these shields may die. The whole reason why soldiers are station in such places in the first place is so that civilians can be used as shields.

what about the kids of armed personnel?should we just go to cantonment and shoot the kids in the playground because there father is an army officer who may or may not be stationed in swat?is this allowed in shariat?

No. They do not do this though. Prove they go and shoot kids in a playground or hold your tongue rather than slandering Muslims

why did the ttp 'scholar' not recognize the hadith about throwing ahadith that go against shariah on the wall?forget daeef or hadith he didnt even recognize it?why?

Because he had never heard of it and wanted a reference (which the soldier could not provide). Maybe you can provide a reference. Or maybe you will realise this is not a hadith at all. If you watch Zakir Naik lectures, he talks about the four Imams saying 'If you find any of my fataawa which go against hadith, through my fatwa on the wall'. I assume this is where the soldier misquoted from. And not only that, but assuming that this IS a hadith, then you have to show us how they are going against Sharia, something you won't be able to do because you have not studied the fiqh of jihad, unlike them

as for kashmir...muslims are openly oppressed there by non-muslims. whereas in pakistan they want shariah and so anyone who disagrees should be slaughtered along with their families. the need for jihad is much more dire in kashmir than in pakistan. do you deny that?

They are part of the Afghan jihad, which (when the soviets invaded), the Ulema of Pakistan considered to be of greater need than the Kashmiri jihad (Shaykh Azzam was based in the Afghan jihad for the same reason). So in this current jihad, the Taliban are fighting against the US and their allies. The Pak Army is one of those allies so they have to fight them too (in order to win the war quicker). And why do you keep banging on about kashmir when the Sharia is not just for Kashmir, but for Pakistan too? It's like saying the Chechen mujahideen should leave Chechnya and the Burmese mujahideen should leave Burma and the Syrian mujahideen should leave Syria all to help the Kashmiri jihad. This is stupid, since all the jihads need to be fought but it seems you think Pakistan is somehow exempt from this.

for attacking civilians please refer to mufti rafi uthmani's words. he has declared them haram. what makes the ttp then who are carrying out this haram?

Yes, I have seen this interview many times. He says attacking civilians is haraam. Since when did the TTP disagree? They don't attack civilians on purpose, they attack military targets. Ask Mufti Rafi Usmani on what happens when the military are in amongst civilians. Is it haraam to attack or is it permissible to attack if the intention is to attack the military only?

:jkk:

[ahmad12]

It is quite clear; Maulana Haqqani (Afghan Taliban) worked with the TTP, Al Qaeda work with the TTP and yet you think that the Afghan Taliban somehow disapprove of the TTP. How is that possible when the same people who fight in Afghanistan help those who fight in Pakistan? I would like you to answer this instead of giving me some propaganda from secular news sources

[ahmad12]

Also see how in this interview, Mullah Sami Ul Haq was asked about whether he supported the jihad against Pakistan. See from 25:30 onwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SL2cnUgBT8

He did not deny they had declared jihad against Pakistan, instead, he went and gave the logical reasoning behind it! If the Taliban were not just a branch of the Afghan Taliban, he could have just said so but instead, he gave a diplomatic answer

[mh16388]

Why do you not refute anything I have said, or the video's I have linked? Is it because you cannot refute clear evidence that shows the TTP are linked with the Afghan Taliban?

it is not clear evidence. you are just assuming it is. just like you dismiss mehsud's cousin even in though he fought with them i dismiss your claims. fair enough.



He said the man was a shia; big whoop. Many people think he was a shia, just do a cursory search of sunniforum and you will find threads with complete discussions and evidence for and against. Does believing the man was a shia mean the Mufti does not know the fiqh of jihad?

he wasnt a shia. get your facts straight. it is not a matter of ikhtelaaf. maulana shabbir ahmed uthmani led his funeral prayers. if you read what ismailis are you will be surprised in what they believe in. the point i made is that the ttp 'scholar' was a takfiri who had big words for everyone who did not agree with them. and no proof for anything.


It's as if you don't listen to anything except Geo News. Not ANYONE can make takfeer but the Ulema can. Go and ask your local Ulema if allying with the kuffar against the Muslims makes you an apostate or not, then let me know what they say. In the video of Maulana Ismatullah Muaviya, he even gives references and daleel to show that such is the case. Perhaps you did not watch it. It is for precisely this reason that the Afghan Taliban fight against the Afghan National Army. Why do you not have a problem when those people are targeted but have a problem when the Pak Army (who do the SAME thing) are targeted?

you are under the assumption i even watch secular media. i have a problem when civilians are targeted. my problem is ttp say fulan is kafir then attack civilians. fine go ahead and fight pakistan army but why attack families of army?why attack people who are praying in a mosque where an army person just happens to be praying?the afghan taliban do not attack mosques. but ttp do. the Qur'an is in the mosque, the hadith books are in there. it is a shameless tactic to attack muslims when they are busy praying. how do you justify that?

No. The targets aren't civilians, and this is what the TTP have always said but you seem to dismiss their own video's and believe what the kufr government of your country tells you instead (because somehow they are reliable)
they say they dont. but that is your assumption because they say they target anyone they want after labelling them kaafir. again you are assuming my sources are kuffar media. so the people at kamrah (lets not call them kids if u have a problem with that) were killed for what crime?simply studying in an an army institution?
what about the november 4th bombing and attack on a mosque at parade line?why target the mosque?isnt that cowardly?

The whole reason why soldiers are station in such places in the first place is so that civilians can be used as shields.
now who is slandering?what is proof of this?army officers praying in mosques are doing so because civilians will 'protect' them?what logic is this?



No. They do not do this though. Prove they go and shoot kids in a playground or hold your tongue rather than slandering Muslims
kamrah and parade lane to quote just two


Because he had never heard of it and wanted a reference (which the soldier could not provide). Maybe you can provide a reference. Or maybe you will realise this is not a hadith at all. If you watch Zakir Naik lectures, he talks about the four Imams saying 'If you find any of my fataawa which go against hadith, through my fatwa on the wall'. I assume this is where the soldier misquoted from. And not only that, but assuming that this IS a hadith, then you have to show us how they are going against Sharia, something you won't be able to do because you have not studied the fiqh of jihad, unlike them
im not siding with the soldier. I hate the pakistan army anyway. we'll discuss how shariah-compliant they are once you explain kamrah and parade lane


They are part of the Afghan jihad, which (when the soviets invaded), the Ulema of Pakistan considered to be of greater need than the Kashmiri jihad (Shaykh Azzam was based in the Afghan jihad for the same reason). So in this current jihad, the Taliban are fighting against the US and their allies. The Pak Army is one of those allies so they have to fight them too (in order to win the war quicker). And why do you keep banging on about kashmir when the Sharia is not just for Kashmir, but for Pakistan too? It's like saying the Chechen mujahideen should leave Chechnya and the Burmese mujahideen should leave Burma and the Syrian mujahideen should leave Syria all to help the Kashmiri jihad. This is stupid, since all the jihads need to be fought but it seems you think Pakistan is somehow exempt from this.
afghan jihad= soviets (non-muslims) attack muslims.
pakistan= no non-muslim occupier.
kashmir= non-muslims attack kashmir. no jihad from ttp
ofcourse it is common sense to mention kashmir and not some remote area because kashmir is right next door. i did not say palestine remember.


Yes, I have seen this interview many times. He says attacking civilians is haraam. Since when did the TTP disagree? They don't attack civilians on purpose, they attack military targets. Ask Mufti Rafi Usmani on what happens when the military are in amongst civilians. Is it haraam to attack or is it permissible to attack if the intention is to attack the military only?
the ttp'ss agreement is immatrerial. taking just two examples of kamrah and parade lane and you will see that they did exactly what mufti rafi warned against.
ah intentions. nothing is proven from intentions that cannot be backed by shariah-compliant actions.
:jkk:

aoa,
answers in bold. this discussion is dragging. May Shariah rule over pakistan in sha Allah. that is the main aim
Jazak Allah khair for the videos

[mh16388]

In the video of Maulana Ismatullah Muaviya, he even gives references and daleel to show that such is the case.

where is this video?

[AlGhuraba]

The two can not be compared because the Taliban came into power without overthrowing any govt, it was hikmatyar who overthrew the govt, i believe. After soviet withdrawal there was a civil war among the mujahideen factions as im sure we're all aware of, and the Taliban took over as the strongest contenders, without rebelling against any govt. And it wasnt only Afghan people dying but mujahideen from all over the world took part, including Pakistan. Youre unneccesarily creating differences.

In Pakistan, there is no Islamic revolution and the TTP are fighting against a legitimate govt without the support of the Muslims, 170 million Muslims in Pakistan n arent supported by our ullama either. You can ask anyone who attended the Karachi ijtima last year for more details. i find your comparision of the islamic revolution very illogical n biased based on opinions. Nobody is in love with the govt but we are patiently putting up with them bcoz it is our aamal that brings us good and bad, unless ppl reform themselves there is little to hope for.

I completely agree with you, and I don't have any sympathy for the na-Pak government or army, nor for Pakistani nationalism (I still remember what a brother said, on the line of "when it was the time of having an Islamic "revolution" in Afghanistan and Afghani people having to sacrifice and die for this, Pakistanis supported it and declared lawful; when it's the time of having an Islamic "revolution" in Pakistan, all of a sudden these sacrifices become haram and it's necessary to obey the government).

But, still, some very dear people to me expressed a different viewpoint on the basis of direct experiences with the TTP, and I can't obliterate their judgement on the basis of accusing them of "Pakistani nationalism", when I know that's not the case.

It should also be remembered that being against an open enemy doesn't automatically means the opposer is 100% right in everything he does or says.

I just think we need more clarity, and rest assured I'm not talking on the basis of Pakistani intelligence's propaganda (i.e. TTP being agents of India and zionists with the objective of destroying the "mythical" Pakistan".

[AlGhuraba]

In fact, your I mean the Pakistani people's attitude proves that. In another thread a member ignored my points on the favour of TTP. He neither showed any proof to prove his claims nor accepted my proofs against his claims.

By the way, what do you say about Sirajuddin Haqqani who has become a great threat for US-NATO invaders? He runs operation in Afghanistan from Waziristan. And he must be associated with TTP. Isn't he?

Does Sirajuddin Haqqani belong to this same Haqqani network? (read below)

PESHAWAR: Intense clashes between the Haqqani Network and the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan left at least eight people dead in North Waziristan Agency, local sources said on Thursday.
“Taliban attacked Malik Karim Khan’s tribe late Wednesday night. The tribe resisted the attack, leading to crossfire,” a local resident said, requesting anonymity.
Sources told The Express Tribune that the clash started in the early hours of Thursday and intensified after the deaths of TTP Commander Jehanzeb Khan and Haqqani Commander Qadir Haqqani.

Clashes erupted in the Malik Shadam Khan area of NWA’s Speen Waam sub-district, which shares a border with Afghanistan. Six people, including a woman, were killed by members of the Haqqani Network in the primary clash. In retaliation, two Haqqani Network men were killed and several houses in the area suffered damage due to the use of heavy weaponry.

According to an official of the Mirali Political Administration, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the event, a local tribal elder Gulbuddin was killed in the clash. Gulbuddin was among those tribesmen who were trying to broker a ceasefire between the two parties.

The group continued fighting at the time of filing this report. Sources said the TTP was led by Sattar, who was nominated the commander after his cousin Jehanzeb’s death. The Haqqani Network, they said, is being commandeered by a man named Sangeen.

They said that residents have begun fleeing the area, where both groups have taken positions against each other. Tribal elders and religious clerics are making efforts to broker a ceasefire between the warring groups.

There was no estimate of how many fighters were involved, but sources said the number runs in the hundreds for both groups.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/367215/n...tp-haqqani-n./

[umar_italy]

The two can not be compared because the Taliban came into power without overthrowing any govt, it was hikmatyar who overthrew the govt, i believe. After soviet withdrawal there was a civil war among the mujahideen factions as im sure we're all aware of, and the Taliban took over as the strongest contenders, without rebelling against any govt.

You're talking as if overthrowing a government was something always haram, when that's not the case.
And by the way, right now they are (legitimately) trying to overthrow the Afghan government, so, shall we support them or not?

Nobody is in love with the govt but we are patiently putting up with them bcoz it is our aamal that brings us good and bad, unless ppl reform themselves there is little to hope for.

So, also Afghani Taliban should "patiently putting up with them bcoz it is our aamal that brings us good and bad, unless ppl reform themselves there is little to hope for", right?