Investigative Reports & Findings of Saudi Scholars on Tableeghi Jamaat

[xs11ax]

for that article colonel.

I have picked up a lot of misconceptions over the years because of being confined to the indopak community in the UK, but gradually through the efforts of people like Colonel Saheb i am beginning to see that not everything is how it has been made out to be. Regretfully i have also innocently played a part in perpetuating many of these misconceptions.

There are many things that still confuse me a little regarding the relationship between deobandis and others as there are still many misconceptions being perpetuated out there, but bit by bit i am beginning to understand better by keeping an open mind and not disregarding knowledge even if it goes against something that we may have heard from our ustadhs in the past. They are also human and could have also been mistaken themselves.

Likewise, i also think that others misunderstand the deobandi maslak the same way that we misunderstand them and this just perpetuates the ignorance and enmity between us all.

May Allah give me the understanding.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

for that article colonel.

I have picked up a lot of misconceptions over the years because of being confined to the indopak community in the UK, but gradually through the efforts of people like Colonel Saheb i am beginning to see that not everything is how it has been made out to be. Regretfully i have also innocently played a part in perpetuating many of these misconceptions.

There are many things that still confuse me a little regarding the relationship between deobandis and others as there are still many misconceptions being perpetuated out there, but bit by bit i am beginning to understand better by keeping an open mind and not disregarding knowledge even if it goes against something that we may have heard from our ustadhs in the past. They are also human and could have also been mistaken themselves.

Likewise, i also think that others misunderstand the deobandi maslak the same way that we misunderstand them and this just perpetuates the ignorance and enmity between us all.

May Allah give me the understanding.

In my limited knowledge and understanding, in Fiqh/Taqleed there is dead simple difference between Saudi (Kibar) Ulamah and Deobandi (Kibar) Ulamah

1. Saudi (Kibar) Ulamah almost 100% support Taqleed
2. Deobandi (Kibar) Ulamah by and large go one step further and propose Taqleed Shaksi and this is done to save the laymen (of our ethnicity and background) from undue Fitnah and Fasad and from falling into error.

The Madkhalees most certainly don't represent the position of overwhelming majority (if not 100%) of the Saudi Ulamah at all and they need to be put in their place and should be singled out, marginalised and shown their true colours that they actually are divergent from the path of the Ulamah whom they claim to follow. The overwhelming shouting of the Madkhalees has drowned out the sound of others so (laymen) people tarnish Ulamah like Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA) and Shaykh Uthaymeen (RA) with the brush of “abandoning Madhab” because laymen don’t know any better.

These Ulamah were Qadhi so they were authoritative and capable enough and we should respect that. When brothers like "Abu Zakariya Yahya" & "Dr Ati" and many others claim Taqleed they are doing Taqleed; they are just not doing Taqleed Shaksi

On Tassawuff they have massive disagreements



P.S: You can read pages upon pages on forums and sites and people arguing until the cows come home without actually understanding the point!

[junfrared]

Nevertheless all readers are requested that if they believe that he reversed his position then produce categorical fatwa which is verifiable and chronologically later (then these) and we will present it as Shaykh Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz (RA)'s earlier and later position.

So if you find otherwise, will you accept it? I believe you people will never accept it. Leave the Saudis, Inshallah I'll give you the scans of, and books of Kibar Ulama Deoband of Indo-Pak (which is the homeland of TJ) who refuted the TJ.

But still it is useless, b/c you will not accept that, these books and refutation are not new even some are fourty fourty, fifty fifty years old.

[The Fake Shaykh]

P.S: You can read pages upon pages on forums and sites and people arguing until the cows come home without actually understanding the point!

And even then the cows still get lost on the way home!

[Zahed]

So if you find otherwise, will you accept it? I believe you people will never accept it.

Just like you aren't accepting positive aspects mentioned by OP?

Leave the Saudis, Inshallah I'll give you the scans of, and books of Kibar Ulama Deoband of Indo-Pak (which is the homeland of TJ) who refuted the TJ.

Eagerly waiting for scans.

But still it is useless, b/c you will not accept that, these books and refutation are not new even some are fourty fourty, fifty fifty years old.

Do you think that everyone is blind like you?

[sabm90]

So if you find otherwise, will you accept it? I believe you people will never accept it. Leave the Saudis, Inshallah I'll give you the scans of, and books of Kibar Ulama Deoband of Indo-Pak (which is the homeland of TJ) who refuted the TJ.

But still it is useless, b/c you will not accept that, these books and refutation are not new even some are fourty fourty, fifty fifty years old.

Identifying the shortcomings is something different than calling them deviant!

[pluto]

dont fall for his trap, many ulema of the past have gone back on their opinions on tabligh, why are we so weak honestly? if he doesn't wanna accept he won't accept even if you show him proof from the holy Quran, can't we see the millions have benefited from the work? isn't that enough? remember, the proof is in the cure... dont waste your time, move on, we workers only remember dawah, we don't remember the dua part of tabligh anymore, do dua for him and his likes, forget and move on, there are billions where dawah hasn't reached and they are hungry to listen, think of them. we seem to have a lot of time. it seems our dawah is limited to the internet and remember thats not us

[mohtashims]

There is a lot of talk on the Internet that Shaykh Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz (RA) reversed his position on Tableeghi Jamaat.

This article lists:

1. His stance
2. His teachers's stance
3. How Ulamah from major Saudi Islamic universities were commissioned to investigate
4. Detailed reports of those Ulamah with names and positions
5. How he arrived at his stance (in the light of reports above)

We have also taken the time to confirm the matter from other reliable sources for his position

1. Br Ibn Faroooq's blog
2. Shaykh Ibn Baz blog

Nevertheless all readers are requested that if they believe that he reversed his position then produce categorical fatwa which is verifiable and chronologically later (then these) and we will present it as Shaykh Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz (RA)'s earlier and later position.

Brother Colonel, can you please present inputs stating that bin Baaz opinion against the work of Dawah was a pior opinion held by him and not the later.

I need it for a few folks on an email group distribution list.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Brother Colonel, can you please present inputs stating that bin Baaz opinion against the work of Dawah was a pior opinion held by him and not the later.

I need it for a few folks on an email group distribution list.

So far there is NO CONCLUSIVE evidence provided that Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA) changed his mind 2 years before he passed away and the various versions of Fatwaas (from tapes) provided to me all differ. Here is the original Arabic which everybody is trying to quote:

http://www.binbaz.org.sa/mat/4094

Ulamah even a few years after Shaykh Ibn Baz (HA) are not aware of this tape, see this:

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=87749

The closest Fatwa of Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA)'s which the opposers of Tableegh can clutch on is this:

http://islam qa.info/en/ref/39349

If the people mentioned are known to have sound ‘aqeedah and knowledge and to be virtuous and good people, then there is nothing wrong with cooperating with them in calling people to Allaah and teaching and advising them, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Its not upto prove the dates of Fatawa but others to conclusively prove otherwise and as soon as that happens we will append the article.

[dr.ati]

So if you find otherwise, will you accept it? I believe you people will never accept it. Leave the Saudis, Inshallah I'll give you the scans of, and books of Kibar Ulama Deoband of Indo-Pak (which is the homeland of TJ) who refuted the TJ.

But still it is useless, b/c you will not accept that, these books and refutation are not new even some are fourty fourty, fifty fifty years old.

Even the hardcore enemies of Tablighi Jamaa't will acknowledge the following facts of Tablighi Jamaa't.

1. The Tablighi Jamaa't is in field since the last 80 years almost and ever since the departure of our golden age , their have been many reformative movements in Islam but none of them has lasted so long without splitting into subgroups.

2.It is also unprecedented in the history that such a huge Jamaa't is running without any official funding and advertisements. It is utterly astonishing that three million people gather at a point without taking the help of the electronic media.

3.It is again unprecedented that not a single charge of any kind of corruption has been leveled against the leadership of such a huge Jamaa't.

These three points alone should give a pause to any critic of the Tablighi Jamaa't. You might have some disagreements with their literature or methodology but i don't think so that any sincere to Islam person would degrade or castigate the Tablighi Jamaa't the way you have done. Tablighi jamaa't has done a good amount of good work and Tablighi Jamaa't can be instrumental for Islam in the future. We don't have any such populous organization present in the Muslim world today which can say Labaik on the call of its Ameer. I hope you understand how vital such a Jamaa't can be in the days to come.