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Thread: shariah program negatives and cons?

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    Default shariah program negatives and cons?

    as Salamu alaykum.

    Has anyone here taken the Shariah program and would be willing to share some of the negatives or cons of the program?

    I can't really find many reviews or evaluations anywhere not from the shariah program website and I'm sure that those reviews are obviously all good for a reason. Can anyone help me understand some of the cons or negatives of the program or why it might not be for everyone?

    Thanks.

    was salamu alaykum.


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Salaam,

    SP is based on the tried and trusted dars nizami syllabus so there aren't any 'cons' with the actual material provided/taught. What some including myself have taken issue with is the way it is now marketed. Anyway a lot was said about this on a previous thread:

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...f-Mullan-Sahib


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Sister, you may find this post of mine from a previous thread (http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ict#post604431) of interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunni_Student786 View Post
    That is a good question that requires a long answer. Allow me to start.

    The Shariah Program is, in my opinion, the absolute best program for anyone from an english-speaking background for learning Arabic, hands down. From the first lesson to the end of Hidaayatun Nahw, you will learn some very profound things and will have it presented to you in an incredibly comprehensive manner. There is really no equivalent or competing program out there.

    Having said that, however, the Shariah Program is not necessarily the best program for everyone. Furthermore, even if the Shariah Program might be the best program for a person overall, it may not necessarily be the best to start out with IF (that is a big "if") you possess certain personality and/or learning traits and have certain constraints as far as time and schedule is concerned. Why this is so will become more clear below.

    Nearly every aspect of the program, i.e. the order in which concepts are introduced, when reading begins, how many times you are asked to recite a verb table, the timing of breaks during a semester, etc. has been carefully thought out and has a specific, calculated reason behind it. The program has been designed to be the most efficient and logical possible. Each part of the system complements the others and they fit together like puzzle pieces. However, that is also a downside in some scenarios. To continue with the puzzle analogy, what that means is there is no substitute for a particular piece, no way to make another piece fit where another ought to be, no way to "complete" the puzzle if even a single piece is defective, has been destroyed, or is lost. The program must be done the way it was designed and as the instructor directs you to do it during the course of the program. This can be a hindrance for some.

    In my case, I found that when I initially signed up I did not make much progress at all. This was because I have a personality where if I encounter something that inspires a question and that question is not answered and am simply told to "wait" for an answer at a later stage or that that should not concern me now, I am unable to focus on anything else until that question is answered. In the Shariah program, many times you will encounter something that you cannot understand by pulling from what you've learned so far and the Instructor will either preemptively tell you not to ask about it (in the pre-recorded recordings) or if you ask about it on the forum, he will tell you that it is not of your concern at this point. For myself, that just completely turned me off mentally and I was not able to retain information from other weeks as a result. It is almost as if not receiving an answer now causes me to doubt anything else I learn that involves the element that I had a question about but did not receive an answer to. Yes, it really did/does bug me that much (on a side note, that was also why I hate chemistry to this day because my high school chemistry teacher took a similar mentality).

    In the Shariah Program, with the exception of memorizing verb tables, there is also no, what some may deem "tedious", drill work. In the Shaykh teaching philosophy, drill work is not an efficient way of spending time and is better replaced by actually reading of texts. For myself, however, drill work in everything from math to english grammar was key in helping me retain information and develop my abilities (I often had to purchase supplemental aids to get these drills since my teachers in junior high, high school and college also frowned upon drills, deeming it, along with rote memorization, a relic of a more primitive educational system). Moreover, when attempting to read books as early as the third week you are bound to come across things that you may not have, nor can, go over that early in the learning process which requires that you simply go over things without an explanation of "why" something may be a particular way, which is a problem for some (like myself).

    Additionally, as I already mentioned, every part of the Shaykh's system fits together with little room for flexibility. So when the Shaykh says, for example, recite this table 50 times at home, unless you do precisely that, you'll see that, as time wears on, you are not progressing in the way that the Shaykh expects. Likewise for using pencil and what not to diagram or dissect sentences in exactly the way the Shaykh asks. If, for some reason, you're unable to do so at the moment, you can rest assured that until you do so, what you hear on subsequent recordings will make little sense or will be "foggy" at best.

    Furthermore, the Shaykh is a strict instructor. He expects preparation from students and has high expectations insofar as ability is concerned. I think that this may be due to the fact that, perhaps, the Shaykh himself is brilliant and was a brilliant student with tremendous mental capacity. To take just one example, in several recordings he makes mention of the fact that he was able to memorize verb tables while hearing them for the first time from his various teachers and you will also hear him draw your attention to certain subtleties like the "rhythm" that many verb tables have which the Shaykh used, as a student, to easily memorize or recall appropriate word form. The average student, such as myself, neither has that kind of memory or mental abilities nor such an innate sense for picking up on patterns and "rhythms" and "flows" as the Shaykh does which can be frustrating when you're not progressing as other students do or as the Shaykh expects.

    I have never taken well to "strict" instruction. In college, when I've had "strict" instructors with a drill sergeant sort of mentality, the first day of class I would wait until class was over, would politely bid them farewell, and would promptly go down to the registrar and drop the class. I have done this more than once and in the case of the Shariah program, I essentially did this by not asking questions on the forum anymore and stopping my participating in the live sessions (neither the first nor the second time around) because that sort of an approach does not meld well with me. This may be my own personal failing but I believe that others may feel and react similarly as well.

    Lastly, in the early stages of the program, there is a lot of terminology and nomenclature that one is introduced to that I found overwhelming. I found myself trying to remember terminology so much that it detracted from my learning the concepts those terms referred to.

    This all contrasts with the lqtoronto.com videos and the Madinah series. The instructor does not have the vibe of a genius, elite scholar teaching at Harvard or Oxford teaching quantum physics but of an after school tutor, who remembers when he was in your shoes and just how hard it was for him to get to where he's now teaching, who attempts to use jokes, songs, personal anecdotes and unorthodox means to not only help you understand but LOVE what you're studying.

    Furthermore, the way the Madinah books are set up, you go from the simplest of concepts to progressively more difficult ones. The sentences and, later, passages that you encounter seldom INTRODUCE anything new that you haven't already covered in the preceding exercises and drills so few new questions come up that leave you thinking "that doesn't jive with what I learned before." Even in those instances where this occurs, however, the brother is willing to answer your questions on the forum and you will seldom be advised not to ask the question just yet, even if, indeed, the question will be answered in a later video.

    There are also COPIOUS exercises in the series which will help to really drill in what you've learned. I found that part priceless.

    Lastly, the first book of the Madinah series, supplemented with Brother Asir Mehr Ali's (he is the instructor on the lqtoronto.com videos) own personal ideas of how the series can be supplement which he introduces on the videos, will help you be familiar with most of hte basic structures of the Arabic language leaving little head scratching when you go on to the Shariah program and begin reading texts. For example, you won't be wondering what "Huwa" means or why certain pronouns have prepositions attached to them or why you pronounce certain things the way you do once you begin reading in the Shariah program (which happens very early), which can be very frustrating when the Shaykh may be guiding you through a reading but telling you not to worry about those things just yet.

    I hope that this has in some way clarified my opinion. If not, I will try to clarify what I'm saying further once my semester ends insha'allah.

    Wa'salaam.


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Salaam br Sunni_student,

    I think you raised an important point about drill work. How would you say the exercises/drill work in the Arabic Tutor books compare to the drills in the Madinah books you mentioned? I ask as the one big advantage (it seems anyway) is that arabic tutor is completely in English in terms of explanation i.e. you're not dependant on videos or a teacher. For a self learner which books are the best in your opinion for drill work/exercises? Jz...


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal ahmad View Post
    Salaam br Sunni_student,

    I think you raised an important point about drill work. How would you say the exercises/drill work in the Arabic Tutor books compare to the drills in the Madinah books you mentioned? I ask as the one big advantage (it seems anyway) is that arabic tutor is completely in English in terms of explanation i.e. you're not dependant on videos or a teacher. For a self learner which books are the best in your opinion for drill work/exercises? Jz...
    My brother, please know that my opinion is an unqualified one.

    Having said that, in that unqualified opinion, I would say that the drills of each are useful however their utility is best realized at different stages of the learning process. IMO, I still think that the drills and what not in Book I of the Madinah series are the best for the absolute beginner. After doing those (and possibly those of Book II), the drills in Arabic Tutor are probably going to be most beneficial as they really do get quite sophisticated (for me anyway) in Book 4.

    However, if you're looking for a series with LOTS of EXCELLENT drills with an ANSWER KEY, then check out the Lisanul Quran series. It is modeled after the famous "an Nahw al Wadih" and has varying types of drills which can keep interest. Furthermore, there is an english answer key for all three volumes of it so even without a teacher you can check to see if you got the exercises right. So I would definitely give it a look.

    Having said all that, I would still advise you to start out with the first book (maybe also the second) of the Madinah series with the aid of the videos on www.lqtoronto.com Among other reasons, I find that the brother's way of doing very simple grammatical analysis of the sentences in the book goes a LONG way towards helping you understand the entire process. I signed up for the Shariah program twice and was lost rather quickly the first time around. Then I stumbled on the videos at lqtoronto, did the whole of book one and half of book 2 and then went back to the Shariah program and things made SO MUCH MORE sense because of the very simple, gentle, and gradual way I'rab was done in the lqtoronto videos....I mean by the time I went back to the Shariah program I had already analyzed HUNDREDS of sentences and that really helped. I really cannot express how highly I think of the videos on lqtoronto and how important I think that they are for the self-learner.

    I hope that this post has helped insha'allah.

    Wa'salaam.


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Jz brother for your helpful reply once again.

    I didn't realise the other books didnt have an answer key. After your reply I'm seriously considering purchasing Lisaanul Quran, but before I do if you could tell me:

    * Does it generally explain theory/concepts well? From a self study point of view.

    * Does it cover sarf? Including drill wise.

    * Does it use classical arabic grammatical terms instead of modern/English ones? e.g. mafool bihi instead of 'object'

    I've been looking for a good reference/self study book and if Lisaanul Quran has all or most of the above I think I will go ahead with the purchase inshallah.

    Jz once again for your help/answers...


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal ahmad View Post
    ...
    * Does it (i.e. "Lisanul Quran") generally explain theory/concepts well? From a self study point of view.
    I would say that the answer is a qualified yes. If you have some prior background (e.g. Books 1 and 2 of the Madinah series), you can understand the explanation of even new concepts fairly well in the Lisanul Quran series. I cannot say if you can do the same without such a background because when I first began using Lisanul Quran I already had one.

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal ahmad View Post
    * Does it cover sarf? Including drill wise.
    Yes it does cover Sarf. Furthermore, if you do need some extra Sarf drills, you can use the book "From the Treasures of Arabic Morphology" which is available for free online. Furthermore, I would like to note that one of the better things that you can do is memorize the Sarf tables from "From the Treasures of Arabic Morphology." Really, nothing beats memorizing those tables for understanding sarf!

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal ahmad View Post
    * Does it use classical arabic grammatical terms instead of modern/English ones? e.g. mafool bihi instead of 'object'
    It actually uses both, however it appears that it uses modern/English ones slightly more. However, again, if you gain some prior background, such as book 1 and 2 of the Madinah series as covered in the videos at www.lqtoronto.com you really will not have much difficulty in using both English and Arabic terms.

    I hope that this helped insha'allah.


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    Default Re: shariah program negatives and cons?

    Yes your post helped greatly, jz once again...


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