Masah on socks - any comprehensive article on its justification

[Ansari]

Salih al-Asmari who celebrates Mawlid and is the second favorite Hanbali of the Catholic GF Haddad? Ok, if that's who you have to cite.

If I cite a Barelwi saying the relied-upon position of Ahl al-Sunnah is that one kisses the thumbs and wipes the eyes with them upon hearing the adhan, will you start doing that?

Qiyas ma'a al-fariq. He refers to Hanbali works. If you don't like that, too bad for you.

What are you citing? People who worship a human God?

[abuhajira]

13 -
الْجَوْرَبُ هُوَ مَا يَلْبَسُهُ الإِْنْسَانُ فِي قَدَمَيْهِ سَوَاءٌ كَانَ مَصْنُوعًا مِنَ الصُّوفِ أَوِ الْقُطْنِ أَوِ الْكَتَّانِ أَوْ نَحْوِ ذَلِكَ.
وَقَدْ ذَهَبَ جُمْهُورُ الْفُقَهَاءِ عَلَى جَوَازِ الْمَسْحِ عَلَى الْجَوْرَبَيْنِ فِي حَالَتَيْنِ.
1 -
أَنْ يَكُونَ الْجَوْرَبَانِ مُجَلَّدَيْنِ، يُغَطِّيهِمَا الْجِلْدُ لأَِنَّهُمَا يَقُومَانِ مَقَامَ الْخُفِّ فِي هَذِهِ الْحَالَةِ.
2 -
ونَ الْجَوْرَبَانِ مُنَعَّلَيْنِ، أَيْ لَهُمَا نَعْلٌ وَهُوَ يُتَّخَذُ مِنَ الْجِلْدِ، وَفِي الْحَالَتَيْنِ لاَ يَصِل الْمَاءُ إِلَى الْقَدَمِ، لأَِنَّ الْجِلْدَ لاَ يَشِفُّ الْمَاءَ) .

وَيَرَى الإِْمَامُ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ حَنْبَلٍ وَالصَّاحِبَانِ مِنَ الْحَنَفِيَّةِ جَوَازَ الْمَسْحِ عَلَى الْجَوْرَبِ بِشَرْطَيْنِ:
الأَْوَّل: أَنْ يَكُونَ ثَخِينًا لاَ يَبْدُو مِنْهُ شَيْءٌ مِنَ الْقَدَمِ.
الثَّانِي: أَنْ يُمْكِنَ مُتَابَعَةُ الْمَشْيُ فِيهِ وَأَنْ يَثْبُتَ بِنَفْسِهِ مِنْ غَيْرِ شَدٍّ بِالْعُرَى وَنَحْوِهَا، وَلَمْ يَشْتَرِطِ الْحَنَابِلَةُ أَنْ يَكُونَا مَنْعُولَيْنِ.

[الموسوعة الفقهية الكويتية 37/ 271]

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

Qiyas ma'a al-fariq. He refers to Hanbali works. If you don't like that, too bad for you.

What are you citing? People who worship a human God?

Where did Mr. Asmari get his opinion from? Just because a modern day "hanbali" says something, doesn't mean we have to conclude it's the Madhab, when you have 35 other modern day Hanbali scholars saying the opposite.

[Ansari]

Where did Mr. Asmari get his opinion from? Just because a modern day "hanbali" says something, doesn't mean we have to conclude it's the Madhab, when you have 35 other modern day Hanbali scholars saying the opposite.

Hanbali works stating the socks are supposed to be thick.

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

Hanbali works stating the socks are supposed to be thick.

Thick as in not being able to see through them, I have cotton socks which will not allow skin to be seen through them....

That's the condition, not that "they can't be made of cotton."

[Ansari]

Thick as in not being able to see through them, I have cotton socks which will not allow skin to be seen through them....

That's the condition, not that "they can't be made of cotton."

That is your interpretation. Show me that from the reliable Hanbali works.

[Abu Zakariya Yahya]

That is your interpretation. Show me that from the reliable Hanbali works.

No, that's not the interpretation, that's what the Madhab says... Look at any book of Hanbali fiqh, even the primer like Umdah and it mentions the condition that the Jawaarib must be thick. It never negates that they can be cotton, and if we look at other scholars who are Saudi and who can be deemed as Hanbali, they never make this a condition, Such as Abdullah bin Jibreen in his 3 volume sharh of Umda.

Rather it's the (false) interpretation of mr. Asmari that it can't be cotton.

I already said that the Sharh Al-Muntaha mentions the meaning of what is a Jawarib, and this along with the two conditions was also mentioned by Wahba Az-Zuhaili in Al-Fiqh Al-Hanbali Al-Maysar Volume one, Page 153 Daar Al-Qalam Damascus First printing 1997.

[Talib84]

I am just passing on information given to me, NOT PASSING A FATWA!

An internationally well known hanafi Maulana recently told me that it is not permissible for hanafis to do masah on regular cotton socks. He also said hanafis may pray behind people who do masah on regular cotton socks as it is a valid opinion in the hanbali school.

So according to him it is a valid hanbali view, and secondly, he sees nothing wrong with hanafis praying behind an Imam following a ruling from a different madhab even though that ruling is not valid in the hanafi madhab.

[ahmad12]

No, that's not the interpretation, that's what the Madhab says... Look at any book of Hanbali fiqh, even the primer like Umdah and it mentions the condition that the Jawaarib must be thick. It never negates that they can be cotton, and if we look at other scholars who are Saudi and who can be deemed as Hanbali, they never make this a condition, Such as Abdullah bin Jibreen in his 3 volume sharh of Umda.

Rather it's the (false) interpretation of mr. Asmari that it can't be cotton.

I already said that the Sharh Al-Muntaha mentions the meaning of what is a Jawarib, and this along with the two conditions was also mentioned by Wahba Az-Zuhaili in Al-Fiqh Al-Hanbali Al-Maysar Volume one, Page 153 Daar Al-Qalam Damascus First printing 1997.

According to Imam Ahmad (ra), they must be thick enough to stand without being tied as in the case of leather khuffs but not in the case of cotton socks: http://alhaadi.org.za/articles-publi...ton-socks.html

[ahmad12]

HAMBALI MADHAB
Hambalies place the following conditions for wiping on a jawrab,1)

It should cling to the leg without being fastened with anything externally.2)

A person should be able to continuously walk with it and spend the night with it without it being fastenedwith anything externally.3)

The foot should not be exposed.4)

Water should not seep through.Ibn Jibreen summarises all these conditions by saying that it should be as strong as a shoe.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18186190/M...ion-with-Socks