Scholars of Ahl al-Sunna Who Did Permit Istighatha from the Deceased

[faqir]

So if one asks; grant me money, cure my eyesight, help me I am drowning, help me building this wall (the reasoning of GF Haddad; what is asked during life, can be asked after death) you are "asking" Allah.

Yes, it is our belief this is what is intended by the muslim who is asking. And this is why the scholars said that istighatha and tawassul are interrelated. The one asking is using the one asked as an intermediary so really what they intend is 'Allah for the sake of the one asked grant me money, etc., etc.' or 'O one asked, Ask Allah to grant me money, etc, etc.' This is discussed in many of the fatawa quoted above like that of Ibn Hajar al-Haytami and Imam al-Subki.

As for the reasoning of Dr GF Haddad, here are his own words (which you've got access to via SP):

"And it is our firm belief that no one in the Umma of the Prophet knowledgeably calls other than Allah Most High even if they use expressions of direct request, as it is a concise verbal expression or ijaz lafzi even when we say: Ya Rasulallah, the meaning is ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY "Ask Allah for us, be our intercessor and our means for the fulfillment of our need" as Abu Hurayra, Jabir, Ibn `Abbas and others narrated from him salla Allahu `alayhi wa-Sallam regarding his Praiseworthy Position in the Divine Presence and the fact that it all means intercession for his Umma. *The Holy Prophet Muhammad upon him peace was created for intercession.*

This is Aqida 101 for every Sunni and the objectors are still stuck at the level where they deliberately confuse tawassul and istighatha with `ibada when it comes to others, bombing them with verses of Tawhid such as {Do not call upon anyone besides Allah} as if they applied to Muslims, just like the Khawarij were falsely quoting Quran to try and condemn the Companions of the Prophet!; yet for themselves these objectors make istighatha of their physicians, their lawyers, their bankers, their mortgage agents and insurers, the USA, the EU, their kings and potentates at the drop of a hat. By their own criterion it is they who are full-blown polytheists, not Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jamaa."

So, if a Christian ask to 'Isa (as) or Maryam (as) to help him or guide him can we say that in fact he is asking to Allah since 'Isa(as) and Maryam (as) was created by Allah ?

It seems that you did not read this article that I linked above. These very issues are beautifully dealt with therein by the Mufti of Egypt.

I think your reasoning is flawed as well. Then why should anyone ask Allah at all. They should seek everything from the creation since you say that in reality Allah is creator of all things. Using your logic and analogy, Prophets are alive just like any other living human being, so asking them for Jannah Paradise / Job / Car etc.. shouldn't make any difference because you are in reality asking Allah. in short what you are saying is that Ya Ali madad or Ya Abdul Qadir Jilani Madad or Ya Ahmed_raza_Khan_barelwi madad is something recommended and every muslim should do it.

Well, tawassul / istighatha, or whatever are just one of the means available to Allah answering our du'a. Just like medicine is one of the means available to cure our sickness - you can take it if you like or leave it if you like but ultimately the cure is from Allah not the tablet you may choose or not choose to swallow. Some Sahaba chose not to take medical treatment relying instead on Allah alone. We already quoted above the gnostic Shaykh Abdul Ghani al-Nablusi who similarly explained that this was simply a matter of taking the means available (quoting from the legal verdict of the Shaikh Imam Allamah Abul 'Izz Ahmad ibn al-'Ajami al-Shafi'i al-Wafa'i al-Azhari):

"And the saying: Oh Sidi Ahmad al-Badawi, Oh Shaykh so and so is not from associating [partners with Allah] because the intention is that of Tawassul and Istighathah, . Allah the Exalted said: "Oh you who believe fear Allah and seek unto Him a means of approach."

As for being alive or deceased - carefully read this article and you will see what I was referring to.

And finally, I feel that all of the answers to your questions are found in the links above. Please read all the links before commenting any more and wasting your own and others' time.

was-salam

[abul_hussain]

Yes, it is our belief this is what is intended by the muslim who is asking. And this is why the scholars said that istighatha and tawassul are interrelated. The one asking is using the one asked as an intermediary so really what they intend is 'Allah for the sake of the one asked grant me money, etc., etc.' or 'O one asked, Ask Allah to grant me money, etc, etc.' This is discussed in many of the fatawa quoted above like that of Ibn Hajar al-Haytami and Imam al-Subki.

As for the reasoning of Dr GF Haddad, here are his own words (which you've got access to via SP):

"And it is our firm belief that no one in the Umma of the Prophet knowledgeably calls other than Allah Most High even if they use expressions of direct request, as it is a concise verbal expression or ijaz lafzi even when we say: Ya Rasulallah, the meaning is ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY "Ask Allah for us, be our intercessor and our means for the fulfillment of our need" as Abu Hurayra, Jabir, Ibn `Abbas and others narrated from him salla Allahu `alayhi wa-Sallam regarding his Praiseworthy Position in the Divine Presence and the fact that it all means intercession for his Umma. *The Holy Prophet Muhammad upon him peace was created for intercession.*

This is Aqida 101 for every Sunni and the objectors are still stuck at the level where they deliberately confuse tawassul and istighatha with `ibada when it comes to others, bombing them with verses of Tawhid such as {Do not call upon anyone besides Allah} as if they applied to Muslims, just like the Khawarij were falsely quoting Quran to try and condemn the Companions of the Prophet!; yet for themselves these objectors make istighatha of their physicians, their lawyers, their bankers, their mortgage agents and insurers, the USA, the EU, their kings and potentates at the drop of a hat. By their own criterion it is they who are full-blown polytheists, not Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jamaa."



It seems that you did not read this article that I linked above. These very issues are beautifully dealt with therein by the Mufti of Egypt.



Well, tawassul / istighatha, or whatever are just one of the means available to Allah answering our du'a. Just like medicine is one of the means available to cure our sickness - you can take it if you like or leave it if you like but ultimately the cure is from Allah not the tablet you may choose or not choose to swallow. Some Sahaba chose not to take medical treatment relying instead on Allah alone. We already quoted above the gnostic Shaykh Abdul Ghani al-Nablusi who similarly explained that this was simply a matter of taking the means available (quoting from the legal verdict of the Shaikh Imam Allamah Abul 'Izz Ahmad ibn al-'Ajami al-Shafi'i al-Wafa'i al-Azhari):

"And the saying: Oh Sidi Ahmad al-Badawi, Oh Shaykh so and so is not from associating [partners with Allah] because the intention is that of Tawassul and Istighathah, . Allah the Exalted said: "Oh you who believe fear Allah and seek unto Him a means of approach."

As for being alive or deceased - carefully read this article and you will see what I was referring to.

And finally, I feel that all of the answers to your questions are found in the links above. Please read all the links before commenting any more and wasting your own and others' time.

was-salam

I guess it should not make any difference if we replace the names for example "Ya Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi solve all the problems of the muslim world" with "Ya ganesh or krishna solve the problems of the muslim world" since the ultimate giver is Allah swt, why should it makes any difference which medicine you opt , isn't the cure from Allah, so if the medicine is Lat, Uzzat , Manat then that should be okay going with your logic and analogy.

You could use anything as means ( ganesh or krishna ) or anything as long as you hold that the ultimate giver is Allah.

hmmm.. looks like Bidah in religion, if this was the case, then Sahaba would have been the first ones to employ such form of ibaadah to seek help from creation, but that is not the case.

Also, kindly explain the difference between your type of isthighatha/tawasul and the rafidi shiah type of tawasul/isthighatha.

[faqir]

Would you say O Allah for the sake of Ganesh solve the problems of the world?! Or would you ask Mr. Ganesh even if he were alive to make dua to Allah for you? Only a plonker like you would do so. Unfortunately it is pointless discussing anything with you. If you were sincere you would read carefully what has been posted above instead of acting like an idiot.

I am through wasting my time here. Salam.

[abul_hussain]

Would you say O Allah for the sake of Ganesh solve the problems of the world?!

Not me, but people like you promoting such stuff should have any problems saying so according to your own words, "Just like medicine is one of the means available to cure our sickness - you can take it if you like or leave it if you like but ultimately the cure is from Allah not the tablet"

so medicine for your type is the your type of sufi-sai-baba where many muslims unfortunately go and seek for paradise, children, money etc...

Or would you ask Mr. Ganesh even if he were alive to make dua to Allah for you?

ask yourself what difference does it make if it is ganesh/hanuman or krishna, according to you the ultimate giver is Allah, go ahead mr. intelligent faqir show us why your own logic/reason is not applied here ?

Only a plonker like you would do so. Unfortunately it is pointless discussing anything with you. If you were sincere you would read carefully what has been posted above instead of acting like an idiot.

I am through wasting my time here. Salam.

only when you are unable to answer you resort to abuse just like any other typical barelwi involved in such suspicious and doubtful invented new forms of Ibadaah. You the insincere one with no answers.

What is wrong if the medication is ganesh or hunamji or Krishna ( according to Ahmed Raza Khan -- krishna did many miracles ) since the ultimate giver is Allah.

[UntoldTruth]

Would you say O Allah for the sake of Ganesh solve the problems of the world?! Or would you ask Mr. Ganesh even if he were alive to make dua to Allah for you? Only a plonker like you would do so. Unfortunately it is pointless discussing anything with you. If you were sincere you would read carefully what has been posted above instead of acting like an idiot.

I am through wasting my time here. Salam.

What an awesome reply... Jazakullah khairan.....

[aMuslimForLife]

The silliness of likening the deities (gods) of Hindu religions, the deities (gods) of the jahili arabs and the deities (gods) of the Christians (Jesus is considered God, or 1/3 of God)... with the awilya of Islam is that the awilya of Islam are NOT deities (gods).

There is no deity (god) except Allah.... Shirk is when you see other deities along aside of Allah... and this is the difference between istighatha between the Muslims and the Mushirkeen... Muslims don't commit shirk..... La Ilaha illa llah...... There is no deity Except Allah....

[bugmenot]

Then why aren't 'Isa (AS) or Moses (AS) called instead of Abdul Qadir al-jilani (RA) ? Surely their level is higher?


But I know why ahlul bid'ah insist on doing so and I reveal it to you guys : it's cause the 'experiences' they get when they call for death ones. Same happens with shi'as and look where they have landed.

[aMuslimForLife]

Then why aren't 'Isa (AS) or Moses (AS) called instead of Abdul Qadir al-jilani (RA) ? Surely their level is higher?


But I know why ahlul bid'ah insist on doing so and I reveal it to you guys : it's cause the 'experiences' they get when they call for death ones. Same happens with shi'as and look where they have landed.

Istighatha isn't an essential aspect of Sufism...

and I really don't know any sufi shaykhs who engage in such practices nor teach it and neither do I engage in it. I just know it is permissible. So as to why the awilya and not the anbiya??? This question can be asked about many things in Islam... Surely the fast of dawud is the best fast... but it was not the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah, sallahu alayhi wa salam... why did the Prophet, sallahu alayhi wa salam prefer his fast over the fast of dawud, the best fast??? I don't know... I am sure I can think of many other like questions as well...

But in short I don't know the answer.

I have followed the Shadhili path for over 10 years and no Shadhili shaykh I have met has told me to engage in istighatha. I just know that istighatha is permissible in the Shafi madhab... the madhab I follow... So I have only learned of its permissibility through Fiqh... and not Tasawwuf (Sufism)....

[Ansari]

The silliness of likening the deities (gods) of Hindu religions, the deities (gods) of the jahili arabs and the deities (gods) of the Christians (Jesus is considered God, or 1/3 of God)... with the awilya of Islam is that the awilya of Islam are NOT deities (gods).

There is no deity (god) except Allah.... Shirk is when you see other deities along aside of Allah... and this is the difference between istighatha between the Muslims and the Mushirkeen... Muslims don't commit shirk..... La Ilaha illa llah...... There is no deity Except Allah....

The argument is perfectly valid. Would you call that belief shirk or not, if one would call upon a deity with the belief that Allah has the ultimate power? They can do nothing on their own?

It is mentioned in the hadith that these idols were PERSONS.

The same counts for statues. If you believe that they can do nothing on their own, but Allah can give them power to perform dua for you and grant them life, would that count as shirk according to you?

Yes or no?

[aMuslimForLife]

The argument is perfectly valid. Would you call that belief shirk or not, if one would call upon a deity with the belief that Allah has the ultimate power? They can do nothing on their own?
It is mentioned in the hadith that these idols were PERSONS.
The same counts for statues. If you believe that they can do nothing on their own, but Allah can give them power to perform dua for you and grant them life, would that count as shirk according to you?
Yes or no?

What the Ulama have consider permissible isn’t shirk… what the jahili arabs did was shirk… in regards to the particulars I don’t know…