Wearing trousers over ankles

[umar_italy]

Plus, definitely Islam is beautiful and it would not task us something awkward.

In fact it's not awkward.
Pay attention before calling a blessed Sunnah as "awkward"

[just_another_muslim]

As Salamu alaikum fellows.
I think I’ve finally unraveled this mystery.
You know, there isn’t any QURAN verse directly instructing us to raise our trousers or izar above our ankles. This ayat is close to the topic though-

وَلاَ تُصَعِّرْ خَدَّكَ لِلنَّاسِ وَلاَ تَمْشِ فِى الاٌّرْضِ مَرَحاً إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ كُلَّ مُخْتَالٍ فَخُورٍ
18. "And turn not your face away from men with pride, nor walk in insolence through the earth. Verily, Allah likes not any arrogant boaster.'' (surah Luqman).

We see that ALLAH has banned pride.
Let us take a look at the following hadith-

Bukhari:72:675:-
The Prophet said Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection at the person who drags his garment (behind him) out of conceit. On that Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! One side of my Izar hangs low if I do not take care of it." The Prophet said, 'You are not one of those who do that out of conceit."

SB:73:88:-
Narated By Salim : That his father said; "When Allah's Apostle mentioned what he mentioned about (the hanging of) the Izar (waist sheet), Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! My Izar slackens on one side (without my intention)." The Prophet said, "You are not among those who (out of pride) drag their Izars behind them."



SB:72:679:-
Allah's Apostle, "Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection, at a person who drags his Izar (behind him) out of pride and arrogance."


Abu Dawood:27:4082:-
AbdurRahman said: I asked Abu Sa'id al-Khudri about wearing lower garment. He said: You have come to the man who knows it very well. The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said: The way for a believer to wear a lower garment is to have it halfway down his legs and he is guilty of no sin if it comes halfway between that and the ankles, but what comes lower than the ankles is in Hell. On the day of Resurrection, Allah will not look at him who trails his lower garment conceitedly.





Word "conceit/proud" is missing in some hadees like following one & that's why our scholars took them "Literally" instead of looking into the spirit of what Prophet said.


SB:72:678:-
The Prophet said, "The part of an Izar which hangs below the ankles is in the Fire."

SB:72:681:-
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was dragging his Izar on the ground (behind him), suddenly Allah made him sink into the earth and he will go on sinking into it till the Day of Resurrection."


Now let’s take a look at this hadith-

SB:72:678:-
The Prophet said, "The part of an Izar which hangs below the ankles is in the Fire."


We do not know in what context or situation prophet has said it. So by comparing with the other similar hadith we can say that it is about those who hang their izar low out of pride.

That those days people used to lower their clothes out of pride is evident from the previous hadiths.
SB:73:88:-
" The Prophet said, "You are not among those who (out of pride) drag their Izars behind them."
Abu Dawood:27:4082:-
. On the day of Resurrection, Allah will not look at him who trails his lower garment conceitedly.


Now, these days lowering the garment upto the shoe is in no way directly out of pride. It’s just a social norm. Yeah I don’t have the right to say I don’t have any pride in my heart but I can say I don’t intend pride in wearing my garment upto the shoe. If unintentional hidden pride is the problem then you’re just exaggerating. We may have such hidden pride in everything we do. How do you know you don’t have pride in sitting on the sofa or using a laptop. Sit on the floor buddy and get yourself a typewriter (and a cheap desktop). Drink in brass pots.

You all know the definition of pride?

'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "No one who has an atom's weight of pride in his heart will enter the Garden." A man said, "And if the man likes his clothes to be good and his sandals to be good?" He said, "Allah is Beautiful and loves beauty. Pride means to renounce the truth and abase people." [Muslim]

So pride in wearing long garments is definitely abasing/belittling people. There is no belittling people when letting the pant reach the ankle (upto the shoe) is universal. Everybody in the society does that more or less. (but still dragging the clothes is unnatural and arrogant, cause he shows that he doesn’t care his clothes getting worn out and dirty, it can never be a natural thing. )

I’m saying this because rasul warned us of isbal due to pride, not wearing a shoe and letting the garment reach that. Rasul allowed abu Bakr (R) to do that. Now if it were haram to lower it with or without pride rasul would’ve strictly warned abu Bakr.
Like, you can’t say that ‘I get involved in telling lies if I don’t pay attention’ and expect prophet to say, ‘don’t worry, you don’t mean no harm.’
This is because lying itself is potentially haram and lowering the garment is not.


But still, you need to be aware if you really do intend pride. Like as in the parallel examples I’ve cited, you need to know if you are showing off your comfortable sofas. If not, there’s no harm sitting on them.

You might say, then what do you have to say about this?

[2] Also narrated by Tabarani, the Prophet (peace and blessing upon him), saw a man whose garments were below the ankles, he ordered him: “Raise your waist-wrap!” The man said: “I have an ailment in my legs; my knees collide with each other.” He (saw), replied: “Raise your garment because all of the creation of Allah is beautiful.”

Answer is, the prophet also said these-

1] In a hadith from Imam Tabarani, whose chain is sound, which is emphatic in this ruling not being restricted to when this act is done in pride. Namely: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), struck four fingers of his hand below the knee (on the shin) and said: “O Amar (bin Zurarah)! this is the place of the garment.”

5) Ibn Umar r.a. narrates that: “I passed by the Messenger of Allah , peace and blessings be upon him, and my garment was loose, so he, peace and blessings upon him, said: "O Abdullah raise your garment,’ so I raised it. Then he said, ‘more,’ so I raised it more. Ever since then I have been vigilant regarding it.” (Muslim)

Does that mean raising your trouser up to the shin is FARZ? In this case, you are gonna refer to other hadith as it does not offer complete information-

The Messenger of Allah , peace and blessings upon him, said:
“The waist-wrap of the Muslim must be up to the middle of the shins; and there is no harm if it goes between there and the ankles….” (Abu Dawud)

And I’d refer to other hadith like-

Bukhari:72:675:-
The Prophet said Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection at the person who drags his garment (behind him) out of conceit. On that Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! One side of my Izar hangs low if I do not take care of it." The Prophet said, 'You are not one of those who do that out of conceit."

SB:72:679:-
Allah's Apostle, "Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection, at a person who drags his Izar (behind him) out of pride and arrogance."

Makes sense doesn’t it?

I agree, it’s true that raising your garment is a good thing, a sunnat. However, there still is a possibility that letting your garments go below your ankles is a sin. So, we should try to keep our garments above our ankles as much as we can. This is the best way to deal with a controversial ruling.

Besides, keeping your trousers over ankles pretty easy. Here's a good idea--- try wearing high top sneakers or boots. That will make it look fashionable too.

[umar_italy]

As Salamu alaikum fellows.
I think I’ve finally unraveled this mystery.
You know, there isn’t any QURAN verse directly instructing us to raise our trousers or izar above our ankles. This ayat is close to the topic though-

وَلاَ تُصَعِّرْ خَدَّكَ لِلنَّاسِ وَلاَ تَمْشِ فِى الاٌّرْضِ مَرَحاً إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ كُلَّ مُخْتَالٍ فَخُورٍ
18. "And turn not your face away from men with pride, nor walk in insolence through the earth. Verily, Allah likes not any arrogant boaster.'' (surah Luqman).

We see that ALLAH has banned pride.
Let us take a look at the following hadith-

Bukhari:72:675:-
The Prophet said Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection at the person who drags his garment (behind him) out of conceit. On that Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! One side of my Izar hangs low if I do not take care of it." The Prophet said, 'You are not one of those who do that out of conceit."

SB:73:88:-
Narated By Salim : That his father said; "When Allah's Apostle mentioned what he mentioned about (the hanging of) the Izar (waist sheet), Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! My Izar slackens on one side (without my intention)." The Prophet said, "You are not among those who (out of pride) drag their Izars behind them."



SB:72:679:-
Allah's Apostle, "Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection, at a person who drags his Izar (behind him) out of pride and arrogance."


Abu Dawood:27:4082:-
AbdurRahman said: I asked Abu Sa'id al-Khudri about wearing lower garment. He said: You have come to the man who knows it very well. The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said: The way for a believer to wear a lower garment is to have it halfway down his legs and he is guilty of no sin if it comes halfway between that and the ankles, but what comes lower than the ankles is in Hell. On the day of Resurrection, Allah will not look at him who trails his lower garment conceitedly.





Word "conceit/proud" is missing in some hadees like following one & that's why our scholars took them "Literally" instead of looking into the spirit of what Prophet said.


SB:72:678:-
The Prophet said, "The part of an Izar which hangs below the ankles is in the Fire."

SB:72:681:-
Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was dragging his Izar on the ground (behind him), suddenly Allah made him sink into the earth and he will go on sinking into it till the Day of Resurrection."


Now let’s take a look at this hadith-

SB:72:678:-
The Prophet said, "The part of an Izar which hangs below the ankles is in the Fire."


We do not know in what context or situation prophet has said it. So by comparing with the other similar hadith we can say that it is about those who hang their izar low out of pride.

That those days people used to lower their clothes out of pride is evident from the previous hadiths.
SB:73:88:-
" The Prophet said, "You are not among those who (out of pride) drag their Izars behind them."
Abu Dawood:27:4082:-
. On the day of Resurrection, Allah will not look at him who trails his lower garment conceitedly.


Now, these days lowering the garment upto the shoe is in no way directly out of pride. It’s just a social norm. Yeah I don’t have the right to say I don’t have any pride in my heart but I can say I don’t intend pride in wearing my garment upto the shoe. If unintentional hidden pride is the problem then you’re just exaggerating. We may have such hidden pride in everything we do. How do you know you don’t have pride in sitting on the sofa or using a laptop. Sit on the floor buddy and get yourself a typewriter (and a cheap desktop). Drink in brass pots.

You all know the definition of pride?

'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "No one who has an atom's weight of pride in his heart will enter the Garden." A man said, "And if the man likes his clothes to be good and his sandals to be good?" He said, "Allah is Beautiful and loves beauty. Pride means to renounce the truth and abase people." [Muslim]

So pride in wearing long garments is definitely abasing/belittling people. There is no belittling people when letting the pant reach the ankle (upto the shoe) is universal. Everybody in the society does that more or less. (but still dragging the clothes is unnatural and arrogant, cause he shows that he doesn’t care his clothes getting worn out and dirty, it can never be a natural thing. )

I’m saying this because rasul warned us of isbal due to pride, not wearing a shoe and letting the garment reach that. Rasul allowed abu Bakr (R) to do that. Now if it were haram to lower it with or without pride rasul would’ve strictly warned abu Bakr.
Like, you can’t say that ‘I get involved in telling lies if I don’t pay attention’ and expect prophet to say, ‘don’t worry, you don’t mean no harm.’
This is because lying itself is potentially haram and lowering the garment is not.


But still, you need to be aware if you really do intend pride. Like as in the parallel examples I’ve cited, you need to know if you are showing off your comfortable sofas. If not, there’s no harm sitting on them.

You might say, then what do you have to say about this?

[2] Also narrated by Tabarani, the Prophet (peace and blessing upon him), saw a man whose garments were below the ankles, he ordered him: “Raise your waist-wrap!” The man said: “I have an ailment in my legs; my knees collide with each other.” He (saw), replied: “Raise your garment because all of the creation of Allah is beautiful.”

Answer is, the prophet also said these-

1] In a hadith from Imam Tabarani, whose chain is sound, which is emphatic in this ruling not being restricted to when this act is done in pride. Namely: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him), struck four fingers of his hand below the knee (on the shin) and said: “O Amar (bin Zurarah)! this is the place of the garment.”

5) Ibn Umar r.a. narrates that: “I passed by the Messenger of Allah , peace and blessings be upon him, and my garment was loose, so he, peace and blessings upon him, said: "O Abdullah raise your garment,’ so I raised it. Then he said, ‘more,’ so I raised it more. Ever since then I have been vigilant regarding it.” (Muslim)

Does that mean raising your trouser up to the shin is FARZ? In this case, you are gonna refer to other hadith as it does not offer complete information-

The Messenger of Allah , peace and blessings upon him, said:
“The waist-wrap of the Muslim must be up to the middle of the shins; and there is no harm if it goes between there and the ankles….” (Abu Dawud)

And I’d refer to other hadith like-

Bukhari:72:675:-
The Prophet said Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection at the person who drags his garment (behind him) out of conceit. On that Abu Bakr said, "O Allah's Apostle! One side of my Izar hangs low if I do not take care of it." The Prophet said, 'You are not one of those who do that out of conceit."

SB:72:679:-
Allah's Apostle, "Allah will not look, on the Day of Resurrection, at a person who drags his Izar (behind him) out of pride and arrogance."

Makes sense doesn’t it?

I agree, it’s true that raising your garment is a good thing, a sunnat. But it would not be right to tell us that it’s a farz and that you have to do it no matter what.

Fine, you have managed to justify in your mind an impermissible act, as already explained; happy now?

[Nomadic]

Dress code described here.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ht=#post575463
The notion of izar is seen by scholars as manifestion of pride and arrogance and some don't. One should ask themselves their condition of the heart. Sometime going against self is a good way of training ones naffs!

[Abdul-Hakeem]

As Salamu alaikum fellows.
I think I’ve finally unraveled this mystery.

We see that ALLAH has banned pride.

Salaam.

I and some scholars agree with you on this issue. These scholars are mostly scholars from the West, where pants below the ankles are common among us common people.

Some things that Muhammad, Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade or commanded were prohibitions more against mindsets behind certain actions rather than the actions themselves. And some of these actions that he prohibited are against cultural norms, and they don't necessarily apply to all people of all time. Note that this only applies to a few of his commands. Most of his commands apply to everyone, and EVERYTHING that Allah commands in the Qur'an is eternal and universal (i.e. it applies to everyone) unless He states otherwise (usually by directing certain commands at certain groups of people, such as the command to kill the polytheists which only applied to the Muslims at that time who were in a state of war and not to every Muslim of every place).

An example of this is the Prophet's command to do ghusl before Friday prayers. According to a Hadith from Abu Dawood's collection, a scholar was speaking to a student (forget the names of the people) and the scholar basically said that ghusl before Friday prayers isn't obligatory but mustahhab, and what Rasulallah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) was ordering was that the people not be sweaty or stink when going to Friday prayers. The scholar further gave the history behind Rasulallah's prohibition. To sum it up, Rasulallah's prohibition stems from the people working right before Friday prayer and stinking up the place. So that's why he said "Ghusl is obligatory before Friday's prayers".

It's important to look at the reasons behind some of the Prophet's (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) prohibitions and statements. They all stem from Allah's commands, but some of them are commanded only to ensure that we fulfill Allah's commands.

Getting back to this subject, I and some other scholars would agree with you in that Allah's Apostle (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade clothing to go below the ankle because it was associated with pride back in his time. In other words, it's not haraam to have pants that go below your knee. It's haraam to project pride, even if you don't have it. Its haraam to even look like you have pride. So RasulAllah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade his companions from looking like they have pride by forbidding them to follow a cultural icon of pride---clothing below the ankle.

Nowadays, especially in the West, clothing that goes below the ankle is not a sign of pride, but just an average style. So many (Western) scholars, who truly understand the culture, would say that it's allowed because people here don't do it out of pride, but rather because that's just how jeans are made.

My advice to you is to not argue on this forum about it. People here don't take disagreeing opinions like how we Muslims are supposed to (i.e. with kindness and gentle debate). Instead, it leads to a lot of accusations about someone's deen and little change in anyone's heart, and it leads to anger. Instead, ask a respectable sheikh or imam from the West.

Often times we get sheikhs from the East denouncing everything about Western culture because it contradicts their culture, but Islam is above all cultures. It's best to get an opinion from someone from your culture when it comes to doing things within your culture, as only this person will truly understand why certain things are done in certain ways, as opposed to operating based on stereotypes or as opposed to trying to apply their culture (not Islam, but culture) to you.

To sum it up, I believe and some scholars and other brothers believe that you must not have pride, and you must not look like you have pride. Therefore, whatever clothing styles your culture associates with pride, stay away from them. It would be haraam to wear clothing that projects pride (and note that pride is not the same as confidence and self-esteem). But, it's always mustahhab to follow what Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) commanded. So it's mustahhab to wear your pants above your ankles, but it's not necessarily haraam if you wear jeans that go below it.

Allahu `alaam of course.

[just_another_muslim]

as Salamu alaikum fellows.

For the people, who have struggled hard against society to establish this sunnah as a part of their life, every little details of your hard work shall receive great rewards as the impeccable QURAN states.

Although I do not agree that it is a FARZ, I myself keep my trousers upto my shin most of the time because the Prophet sm used to.

Thank you all the people for your valuable consents.

Therefore, whatever clothing styles your culture associates with pride, stay away from them.

yes, that's true. ALLAH has banned pride, may it be in clothes, may it be in voice, showoff, money, anything.

I've got the answers I've been looking for.

May ALLAH help us all big time.

[umar_italy]

Salaam.

I and some scholars agree with you on this issue. These scholars are mostly scholars from the West, where pants below the ankles are common among us common people.

Some things that Muhammad, Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade or commanded were prohibitions more against mindsets behind certain actions rather than the actions themselves. And some of these actions that he prohibited are against cultural norms, and they don't necessarily apply to all people of all time. Note that this only applies to a few of his commands. Most of his commands apply to everyone, and EVERYTHING that Allah commands in the Qur'an is eternal and universal (i.e. it applies to everyone) unless He states otherwise (usually by directing certain commands at certain groups of people, such as the command to kill the polytheists which only applied to the Muslims at that time who were in a state of war and not to every Muslim of every place).

An example of this is the Prophet's command to do ghusl before Friday prayers. According to a Hadith from Abu Dawood's collection, a scholar was speaking to a student (forget the names of the people) and the scholar basically said that ghusl before Friday prayers isn't obligatory but mustahhab, and what Rasulallah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) was ordering was that the people not be sweaty or stink when going to Friday prayers. The scholar further gave the history behind Rasulallah's prohibition. To sum it up, Rasulallah's prohibition stems from the people working right before Friday prayer and stinking up the place. So that's why he said "Ghusl is obligatory before Friday's prayers".

It's important to look at the reasons behind some of the Prophet's (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) prohibitions and statements. They all stem from Allah's commands, but some of them are commanded only to ensure that we fulfill Allah's commands.

Getting back to this subject, I and some other scholars would agree with you in that Allah's Apostle (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade clothing to go below the ankle because it was associated with pride back in his time. In other words, it's not haraam to have pants that go below your knee. It's haraam to project pride, even if you don't have it. Its haraam to even look like you have pride. So RasulAllah (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) forbade his companions from looking like they have pride by forbidding them to follow a cultural icon of pride---clothing below the ankle.

Nowadays, especially in the West, clothing that goes below the ankle is not a sign of pride, but just an average style. So many (Western) scholars, who truly understand the culture, would say that it's allowed because people here don't do it out of pride, but rather because that's just how jeans are made.

My advice to you is to not argue on this forum about it. People here don't take disagreeing opinions like how we Muslims are supposed to (i.e. with kindness and gentle debate). Instead, it leads to a lot of accusations about someone's deen and little change in anyone's heart, and it leads to anger. Instead, ask a respectable sheikh or imam from the West.

Often times we get sheikhs from the East denouncing everything about Western culture because it contradicts their culture, but Islam is above all cultures. It's best to get an opinion from someone from your culture when it comes to doing things within your culture, as only this person will truly understand why certain things are done in certain ways, as opposed to operating based on stereotypes or as opposed to trying to apply their culture (not Islam, but culture) to you.

To sum it up, I believe and some scholars and other brothers believe that you must not have pride, and you must not look like you have pride. Therefore, whatever clothing styles your culture associates with pride, stay away from them. It would be haraam to wear clothing that projects pride (and note that pride is not the same as confidence and self-esteem). But, it's always mustahhab to follow what Allah's Messenger (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam) commanded. So it's mustahhab to wear your pants above your ankles, but it's not necessarily haraam if you wear jeans that go below it.

Allahu `alaam of course.

So masha'Allah we have yet another mujtahid and do-it-yourself Mufti who is able to extract the 'illas of the hukum just by reading some translations of ahadith!
Even though Ulama gave different opinion and they mention the hadith (iirc) in which is said that to wear garments below ankles is in itself riya...

[SASLAMS]

So masha'Allah we have yet another mujtahid and do-it-yourself Mufti who is able to extract the 'illas of the hukum just by reading some translations of ahadith!
Even though Ulama gave different opinion and they mention the hadith (iirc) in which is said that to wear garments below ankles is in itself riya...

I dont know I agree with him. I just dont like that he comes across or tries to come across as a scholar at the begining where he states I & a few scholars from the west.
However his view is a valid view in shariah & we should entertain it. its not the clothing & the way it fits that is haraam but the kibr that it brings about or projects. & this is also the view of many traditional ulama of the past. Allahu ya'lam.

[dr76]

I dont know I agree with him. I just dont like that he comes across or tries to come across as a scholar at the begining where he states I & a few scholars from the west.
However his view is a valid view in shariah & we should entertain it. its not the clothing & the way it fits that is haraam but the kibr that it brings about or projects. & this is also the view of many traditional ulama of the past. Allahu ya'lam.

Hope ur in good health... can u quote some traditional ulema of the past if possible..



wa assalam..

[just_another_muslim]

I just dont like that he comes across or tries to come across as a scholar at the begining where he states I & a few scholars from the west.

perhaps, he meant that, he, (not a scholar, just himself as a muslim) and some scholars have given this opinion.

We actually do not possess the power of seeing through one's heart.

I've also been very concerned about this 'ankle' issue. But considering all the relevant documents and pondering over them collectively you realise it basically bans pride.

You can check out my hypothesis in the previous part of this thread.

I cant seem to believe wearing a full pant is pride in itself.