Is it true that Nice Guys are not admired by women in general?

[mmb786]

I would like to add something more to this definition.

According to the above;
Nice men= men who agree on everything, do not stand up for themselves. Usually do not have an opinion, even if they do they do not express it.

I would like to split the above group of men into two:
1. Men who are actually incapable of standing up for themselves.
2. Men who out of their Hikmah, do not argue for each and every matter. Rather they choose on the topics they convey their opinion.
These Men are the ones who take control of situation when it matters. But they stay silent on unnecessary issues. Often these men also are wrongly called 'spineless' etc. But actually its their quality of Sabr that is in play here. Rather they would pounce up and make a correct stand on issues that matters.

Eg: Imam Abu Hanifa's mother never used to take fatwa from his own son. lolz. She wanted to go to another famous person(who wasn't an alim) for fatwas. The Imam himself used to take her to that person. He would ask the Imam in secret the correct answer and would convey the same to the mother and she would accept it. lolz. Here Imam Abu Hanifa did not express his 'intellectual might' in front of his mother, but rather used his hikmah, but in the end Allah Ta'ala gave the same result, ie his mother followed the opinion of Imam Abu Hanfia(ra).


What I would like to say is one should always try not to miss the 'Nice guys' in the second group. They are gems.

Absolutely true. Btw where did you get this story of imam abu hanifa from? Its the first time i heard it..... i can't believe how sweet he was. Wish we had ppl like that these days.

[amr123]

Absolutely true. Btw where did you get this story of imam abu hanifa from? Its the first time i heard it..... i can't believe how sweet he was. Wish we had ppl like that these days.

I heard the Imam's story from the lecture series by Dr.Hisham: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL218060492660A3BD

I don't remember which exact point where he mentioned it. Its the most detailed biography of Imam Abu Hanifa(ra) available i think(total 4.40hrs).

Make sure you listen to it in the correct order(the numbering is a bit confusing). The order in the playlist is correct.

[mmb786]

I heard the Imam's story from the lecture series by Dr.Hisham: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL218060492660A3BD

I don't remember which exact point where he mentioned it. Its the most detailed biography of Imam Abu Hanifa(ra) available i think(total 4.40hrs).

Make sure you listen to it in the correct order(the numbering is a bit confusing). The order in the playlist is correct.

Okay thanx.

[elusive]

I read an article recently where they stated that Muslim women were expressing similar opinions to non Muslims that they dislike nice dependable guys and were more attracted to the so called 'bad boys', because of the excitement they might provide?

There has been an increase in the population of Nice Guys in the west in the past few decades, they tend to be nerdy and not very social and they are 'feminised' in some ways because they lack masculine type qualities of strength, confidence, independence etc. And women are put off by them, they prefer the Bad Boy who might show some confidence and is challenging.

I think I am on a different planet to the rest of guys here I think reality and bollywood may have been blurred in that article.

In reality I did not think that there was such a thing as women having a fantasy of marrying a tough, broody, hell raiser on his motorbike or flash car with bulging biceps, shades and leather pants and jacket !!! (of course the hero in bollywood)

Also in reality I did not think that there was such a thing as women being turned off by intelligent, "geeky", polite and good mannered, stable and steady income guys.

I thought all this was just limited to watching bollywood in the cinemas !!!

now getting back to reality - I think that there is truth that the relationship between man and woman in this context irrespective of their religion will always be determined by beauty, family background, personality, compatability and wealth.

For a muslim/muslimah there is of course the additional factors of piety and good character both of which should be the most important attributes when looking for spouse.

My take is that I actually think that looks play a more important role than being "nice". what I mean by that is for example a muslimah pious or not would want a partner who came from a good family background, wealthy, good steady income, responsible and some piety BUT WITH NO BEARD , not hairy with a pot belly.

similarly, I think a pious muslim man would want a spouse who was a good housewife, good character, wealthy family,responsible BUT she dresses nicely for him, keeps a nice hairstyle (which may be against shariah), wear nice makeup for him, and maybe even remove unwanted hair especially the middle bits in the eyebrows (which may be against shariah).

so its all about the looks in my opinion. I think most women would prefer a man with no beard but would put up with it if he ticks all the other boxes.

[Abu Zakir]

A full sunnah beard, amama also makes a man look manly and like a warrior, if done correctly.

I think I am on a different planet to the rest of guys here I think reality and bollywood may have been blurred in that article.

In reality I did not think that there was such a thing as women having a fantasy of marrying a tough, broody, hell raiser on his motorbike or flash car with bulging biceps, shades and leather pants and jacket !!! (of course the hero in bollywood)

Also in reality I did not think that there was such a thing as women being turned off by intelligent, "geeky", polite and good mannered, stable and steady income guys.

I thought all this was just limited to watching bollywood in the cinemas !!!

now getting back to reality - I think that there is truth that the relationship between man and woman in this context irrespective of their religion will always be determined by beauty, family background, personality, compatability and wealth.

For a muslim/muslimah there is of course the additional factors of piety and good character both of which should be the most important attributes when looking for spouse.

My take is that I actually think that looks play a more important role than being "nice". what I mean by that is for example a muslimah pious or not would want a partner who came from a good family background, wealthy, good steady income, responsible and some piety BUT WITH NO BEARD , not hairy with a pot belly.

similarly, I think a pious muslim man would want a spouse who was a good housewife, good character, wealthy family,responsible BUT she dresses nicely for him, keeps a nice hairstyle (which may be against shariah), wear nice makeup for him, and maybe even remove unwanted hair especially the middle bits in the eyebrows (which may be against shariah).

so its all about the looks in my opinion. I think most women would prefer a man with no beard but would put up with it if he ticks all the other boxes.

[Dhul-Qarnayn]

If there is something from woman you dislike, it is possible you dislike something which is good for you.

This attribute of women is not that they like "bad guys". That is how this natural attribute placed by Allah has been twisted and perverted in expression by modern culture.

In pre-modern times there was no man who would not be considered strong and confident. If you weren't these things you would not survive. So everyone, even the nice and polite men, were also strong, confident, and all those things, as much as a woman would want (in fact, moreso... so women would complain about the opposite). There was no ambiguity. It's likely every man kept a weapon in the house and had fought someone in some way or at least been trained in fighting.

Men and women are different. They treat each other like an alien species. Especially in modern times. If they don't see something in front of their face they don't think it exists. This is also a characteristic of today's spiritually lacking culture which is very superficial and does not go into depth on any issue, including other people. Because women do not see men fighting everyday they think they cannot fight. When they don't realize that out of necessity, every man can do those things. But this doesn't click for them: again, because of modern culture's block on introspective or reflective thought. They think our current elevated lifestyle (we are, after all, posting on the internet, so all of us have access to some means) is all there is or ever was, and don't realize their biological urges come from a different type of society and lifestyle.

Instead of bravery in defending their family or standing up for their beliefs, or pursuing their passion, the only bravery women care about is with regards to working up the guts to approach them (the women), and try to hit on them or "pick them up". This is what bravery means for most women of Westernized culture. Of course they will see a soldier on the news and say "he's brave" but they won't be attracted to him on the basis of that bravery as they would here. This trait, I believe, is true of all women of all times. There's a certain degree of endearment that they will reserve for any man who approaches them, thus the approaching of one another outside marriage is strictly forbidden in Islam. This characteristic is meant to preserve love between husband and wife but can be abused by men to get themselves endeared to other women outside marriage and manipulate their emotions. This is equivalent to a man being vulnerable to any woman who is physically pleasing to look at.

Anyway, that aside... so this desire for "masculinity" which Allah placed in them is crucial for them to tolerate our worst habits. When it is working for you (in marriage), it's great. When it's working against you (blocking marriage), it's something to complain about.

However, the only men advertising their "manly" characteristics (by putting on ostentatious and usually fake shows of being tough) are what we would call "bad boys". The real men don't need to and don't want to put on a show for people. They are normal and unassuming. These are men who have wrestled their egos (Nafs al Amarrah) and won. The bad boys are people who have no real identity other than their ego (Nafs al amarrah). Their wills have lost and surrendered to the animal instincts within them.

Women don't know this and don't care to know this. All they see is that there is some semblance of manliness coming from them. It's like if someone with extremely bad eyesight takes off their glasses they can barely perceive a train is coming at them so they will say "there is something coming" which is all they can conclude from the real scene of a 10,000 ton hunk of metal hurtling at them. Such a view of reality is not good enough to be called an accurate view of reality. So they require some huge and extravagant, almost cartoonish display of masculinity to notice that there is any masculinity at all. Their spiritual eye is weak and this is true for most Muslims today, even the pious.

All of this is the most fundamental and neutral reason. There is another reason which compounds this. Women who are themselves bad (impure, as per the Qur'anic verse) will be attracted to like-minded individuals (impure men). These days many people are tainted by impurity in thought because of socialization, including most Muslims. Everyone has this "dark side" and this comes out in mate selection. Most of the Muslim women people complain about in this respect love nice guys, they just would not love them as mates. For mates their guilty innermost desires come out, which are driven by their nafs which is influenced by the culture they have been consuming (I don't mean passively perceiving, since simply watching a TV show, for example, won't "turn" you, but eagerly and intimately accepting the content with their heart which in other words means their wills have lost to their nafs).

And all of this happens in reverse too. The men do the exact same thing to the women. People who use this to justify their own behavior are an example of "the impure are for the impure". Men and women often wind up running into the bad type of the opposite gender, then complain, but then keep gravitating towards this type. They are stuck between not wanting what they subconsciously want.