Pandit Sarwar Farooqi Nadwi

[Maripat]

Strange how a reasonably innocent thing can turn into a nightmare.
May be because yours truly did not put the trivial things on paper.
Initially, after joining SF, your truly did precisely did that - put trivial things on record.
It was strange that yours truly was thought of as some bored student passing his time.
And now a clumsy article has become the bone on contention.
To Indians at least it should have made perfect sense.
But too is just as well.
This has given yours truly an opportunity to put the things in perspective.
So here we go.

Isnt this shirk and kuffar to give training of the religion of idol worship.?

It is.

again isnt this shirk and kuffar to give lessons of idol worship religious texts?

This one is a different matter. Knowledge is allowed as long as it is beneficial. If Hindus ask him to give discourses on Vedas then he does have an opportunity to put the things in perspective. By that I mean that he can explain the reality of Hinduism with the hindsight of Islam.

I'll indulge more in this.

When a person believes in Hinduism then Islam does not make sense to him. Nor will Christianity or Judaism but that is irrelevant. Similarly when a person believes in Christianity he or she finds it impossible to make head or tale of the other religions. When you believe in Islam each and every religion makes sense to you. And please hold on your screams - yours truly is not talking perennial philosophy here. Yours truly is talking about Kalme Bina Na Milti Toi - without the Kalima you do not have a clue. So when you are in Islam you can explain, to who so ever is ready to listen, what is Hinduism, Christianity or any other religion. This is Islamic perspective on comparative religion. I suppose every Muslim should know the explanation of Surah Baqarah 2:62. All those who believed in Sabian religion, Judaism and Christianity and did good deeds have nothing to fear in the hereafter. Why? Because all of them were based on Allah (SWT)'s injunctions. At present all of these stand superseded by Islam. In past? In past there were many correct religions because Allah (SWT) sent a Prophet (AS) to every people. So gentle reader please do understand that Allah (SWT) must have sent a Prophet (AS) to the people of India - my ancestors. I'll suspect that He (SWT) must have sent many Prophets (AS) to India. That India retains its affinity to religion is, as usual, no accident. If too many of them are trapped in the wrong religion is more of our mistake than theirs - get it absolutely right. We have not done our due and I do have very strong arguments to drive home the argument but for now I shall return to the main argument.

A Muslim explaining Vedas on a microphone is not necessarily a deviant - he might be a better Muslim than you for in all probability he is a Dayee. Are you a Dayee? (The question is to all not only the brother whose post I am replying to.)

and brothers what about the famous Hadith where Hazrat Umar RA was reading Torah and the blessed countenance of Nabi alaihis salam turned red because of anger and Hazrat Abu Bakr RA took Torah from Umar RA hands and closed it.

We got to understand this Hadith.

I think it was a page from Torah - not the whole book that Hazrat Umar (RA) had in his hand.
The prohibition in the Hadith is about accepting Torah as a book of guidance after the Furqan, that is the Noble Qur'an, has been revealed. The Noble Qur'an refers to authenticity, of course in parts only, of Torah, Zuboor and Injeel. So when Allah (SWT) say that Inna Haza Li Suhufil Oola, Suhufi Ibraheema wa Moosa - Verily this is there in the Scared Documents of past- Documents of Ibraheem and Musa (AS) then it means we can verify these things by reading those Documents. Nothing wrong with that. Occurrence of information in Qur'anic Verse in earlier texts is an evidence of Islam.

Please don't rely on the notorious Fasiq TimesOfIndia. I've met with Mufti Sarwar Farooqui who is a pious man and a close associate of Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi.

He is in his early forties.

Nothing much to worry brother - we only have to put the things in perspective.

SubhanAllah - this seems to indicate that the soothing breeze was referring to the Hindu heritage of India. More like evil stench of shirk and paganism. "Exciting world" - more like dark dungeons of polytheism.

Allahu A'lam - maybe I completely misread that. Of course, one has to verify that the Shaykh actually said this.

Since the Hadith has Kalaam on it, its authenticity is doubted, it is sort of pointless to defend it but one thing can be said with surety that we Muslims of India never thought that breeze meant teachings of Hinduism - breeze was the mundane atmospheric phenomena.

And the Shaikh Sarwar Farooqi Nadwi Sahab (DB) might have said it. It is rather common in India. Allama Iqbal used it in a couplet:

Iqbal.GIF
Wahdat Ki Laiy Suni Thi Dunya Ne Jis Makan Se
Meer-e-Arab (S.A.W.) Ko Aayi Thandi Hawa Jahan Se

The House from which the world had heard Tawhid’s tune
From where the Holy Prophet had felt cool breeze

And I once again insist that authenticity of the Hadith is what scholars tell about it.
Some people have taken it to be authentic and hence used it. And even then they by no means were praising Hinduism nor they meant that breeze meant more than physical phenomena.

What kind of rubbish is this?

strange thread.

My brothers please try to understand that Ummah in India is not sleeping - we are on work.
There is some rubbish but Lord Most High willing it should get cleared by the end of the present post. It is strange that Muslims of India should be the most misunderstood section of Ummah on SF. I suppose some more work is ahead of me, IA.

We could be right or we could be wrong.

In the West we talk to Christians about “Jesus Christ” narrate famous incidents from the bible and turn the conversation/discussion in a way which is conducive to Dawah towards Islam. A person can similarly talk about the Vedas (in a way) to conduct Dawah towards Islam so based on the brief (summarized) article from a Non-Muslim source I choose to trust the honor/judgement of a Muslim and chose to interpret it in a better light. I clicked on the web-site and found that it was down, if I would have browsed it and found perennial tendencies then it would have been a different story.

Simply on the basis of the news of a Kaafir, I cannot make a negative opinion of a Muslim as I am commanded in the Qur’aan not to even trust the news of a Faasiq.

يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ إِن جَآءَكُمۡ فَاسِقُۢ بِنَبَإٍ۬ فَتَبَيَّنُوٓاْ أَن تُصِيبُواْ قَوۡمَۢا بِجَهَـٰلَةٍ۬ فَتُصۡبِحُواْ عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلۡتُمۡ نَـٰدِمِينَ

[49:6] O you who believe, if a sinful person brings you a report, verify its correctness, lest you should harm a people out of ignorance, and then become remorseful on what you did.

If another source can be quoted then we can discuss the matter further. I can't make Takfeer on someone based on TimesofIndia

Thanks Colonel Sahab.

If the guy is doing what Ahmad Deedat did then it is different.

That is precisely the point akhi.
Pandit, I means the Brahmins of India, is a scholar of no mean proportions. I have heard incidents when a Pandit can give a discourse on Tawheed, the concept Hinduism has significantly mutilated, that can give sweating in many people. I experienced it myself also and I have narrated it here at SF. We do not have the advantage of having beloved Rasoolallah (PBUH) with us where many of the problems were solved with Wahy. We now have only ourselves to defend Islam. It sometimes needs preparations. It is strange that people can participate in kilometers long hair splitting threads on secondary matters of Shariah but when some effort is made to communicate No god but God to the people of India it is taken as a sort of deviation and queer behaviour. People want to pity us Muslims of India and any assertive action is too much for it challenges the collective wisdom of Indian Muslim being a pathetic being who has accepted second class citizenship in India. This is a bit unexpected and betrays lack of Husn-ad-Dhunn.

A few years ago three Dayees ventured into an RSS organization to learn Sanskrit. There was no danger but obvious paranoia made the whole experience a goose pimple giving one. We are trying to make sacrifices but some how our brothers find us grotesque.

But things mentioned therein and as per what is written such as training hindus in their rituals and giving discourses to hindus on their religious books is definately and undoubtedly kufr and shirk and no muslim can ever dispute this.

There is no doubt about that. Now please, please, please give this sinner an opportunity to insert some element of relevant reality.

We live in India which has become a Hindu majority state, thanks to partition.
Without partition it would not have been - even if their numbers were larger, that they were.
India opted for secular democracy and this has made India a de facto Hindu state in some matters that are vital but not a completely Hindu state. This is because larger numbers mean larger votes and larger seats in state legislature and national parliament. So, for example, if a military tank is to be inaugurated by breaking of a coconut then a sole high ranking Muslim officer, if he is exits, can not say that you can not go ahead with it because it is a secular state.

Our friends from across the border will expect precisely the same Rambo action on our part but this is bit unfair. They decided not to live in united India because of fears of Hindu dominance and now they do expect us to live without that. It is a reality that many Hindus has taken partition as an insult and they do take out their anger on Muslims - directly or indirectly. In this regard we have got the most distasteful suggestion for migration. Why is it distasteful that I shall again relegate to future, IA.

But not all Hindus are that obnoxious and they are aware that this Hindu-Muslim problem should be addressed. This is what leads many kind hearted Hindus to perennial solution.

It is these people who present the matters as they are depicted in the article that I have posted. I have no soft corner for perennial philosophy but on my part I find it difficult to hate a person who is merely trying to present a picture of non-conflicting existence of a minority in India.

**********

I suppose this takes care of most of the objections raised but if some points are not still clear then I can do a point wise analysis of the whole OP but brothers have to ask for that because I can not decide for you.

But we do want to slog it out in India. Do supplicate if you can find time and inclination. And I do render apologies for the bitterness for it does not do any honour to a Muslim if he becomes bitter. I, post facto, do seek your forgiveness.

Wassalam

[syamuj]

What just suddenly happened in this thread?.It's amusing how we can find a point to start an argument from nowhere.

[Abu_Dahdah]

Salaam brother Maripat,

I was never disputing the hadith. India is a blessed place which the Prophet Sallallaahu Alayhi wasallam made mention of.

My only objection was the comment that this hadith led one to explore the "exciting world of Hindu scriptures". I mean, honestly, how is it even linked? Hindu scriptures are full of shirk and polytheism. How can one connect the sacred words of the Prophet Sallallaahu Alayhi wasallam to this?

Anyway - khair. As I said, the esteemed Shaykh probably never said this and it's the Hindustan Times making things up. I trust the judgement of my muslim brothers than some hindu media machine. May Allah protect us from their influence.

[ImamGhazzaali]

Some Hindus even ask Birajdar to solemnise marriages, preside over pujas and help perform last rites. "I decline such offers since they are purely religious. Instead, I have trained many Hindus to perform such rituals," he says.

Wa 'iyadhubillah.

[Maripat]

The Indian reporter is trying to present an image of communal harmony, he is trying to be helpful in his own way. The conversation might have gone in the following way, and this is my T'aweel because I do not have the time to search for a 78 years old man thousands of kilometer away in one of the biggest metropolises of the cosmos,

Q: Did you conduct Hindu rituals?
A: No.
Q: Why?
A: This is practical part, I am just an academician.
Q: Alright but you might have taught the classes.
A: O yes I took Sanskrit classes for three years.

And this could easily become what we see in print.

Islam is nearly as old in India as it is in Saudia. And we did rule it for nearly a millennium. And then we simply forgot to convey the message of Islam to the masses, the masses who are absolutely receptive to word of Allah (SWT). They are as receptive to the word of Allah (SWT) today as they ever have been in spite of all the venom that is being spread by the fascist communal forces in India. We can still do with a Moinuddin Chishtis or two even today as well as a few thousand traders. When I say that I am referring to the historical fact that Islam in north India spread because of the Sufis, the much reviled tribe today thanks to Saudi obsession with New Islam, and Islam spread in the southern peninsular region owing to the Arab traders to the west coast of India. Yes, there were Muslim swordsmanship in north India. No, Islam did not spread because of sword, neither in north nor in south.

No we Muslims of India have not compromised on Islam. There have been persistent attempts to undermine Islam and suppress and subjugate Muslims but we have been putting up resistance that might not be as potent as the Afghans but after that it is second to none.

There have been a series of the so called communal riots but which were pogroms against Muslims but when the last round of most serious ones took place in Gujrat under the supervision of the then and present Chief Minister Narendra Modi then one very senior Muslim remarked that these are the events that refresh our faith and belief. You see - we are not demoralized by the most demoralizing events around us - by the Grace of Allah (SWT). And this man is no radical or Islamist but a run of the mill Muslim more inclined to Dargah.

When in the garb of a divorce case there was legal onslaught on Shariah, the infamous Shah Bano case - may Allah (SWT) do justice to her, then Qari Muhammed Taiyyab Sahab (RA) too the momentous step to form the All India Muslim Personal Law Board in later seventies of last century. I can not over emphasize how difficult it would have been to approach and take on board all those denominations of Islam with whom we have serious differences of opinion - including differences of Aqeedah.

When Salman Rushdie wrote the blasphemous book then Bombay, it became Mumbai later, was the first city in the world to offer martyrdom to defend the honour of beloved Prophet (PBUH) and the Pristine Wives (RA).

*****************

Please do not construe my defend as overzealous - there is some reality that is more apparent to us in India for we are at the location. I personally am always curious about similar reports about the ground reality from other countries. People take the things for granted and do not report the mundane things thinking that they are of no consequence - they are.