Narrow minded? But we live in the same world as you do.

[dawaheed]

And to ask a different question --- when I point something out using Grammar and the meaning of the words in the Quran, I get called on as saying my "opinion". And yet when taking an OPINION from a 'Sahih' book, there is no problem.

As this guys mentioned -- «مَنْ قَالَ فِي القُرْآنِ بِرَأْيِهِ فَأَصَابَ فَقَدْ أَخْطَأَ

Isn't that in itself an OPINION? And don't all these Muftis and Scholars explaining their OPINION on what the Quran is saying?

And what if I was to bring you an opinion of a Scholar that agrees with what I am saying, would THAT change your point of view?

Things are not so complicated as you try to make things to be --- This Quran was sent to be READ and understood, not to have its words dismissed because somebody's cousin's brother's neighbor's father's etc etc said that he heard the Prophet said. You want to trust the source or some wive's tale?

[abd7861]

And to ask a different question --- when I point something out using Grammar and the meaning of the words in the Quran, I get called on as saying my "opinion". And yet when taking an OPINION from a 'Sahih' book, there is no problem.

As this guys mentioned -- «مَنْ قَالَ فِي القُرْآنِ بِرَأْيِهِ فَأَصَابَ فَقَدْ أَخْطَأَ

Isn't that in itself an OPINION? And don't all these Muftis and Scholars explaining their OPINION on what the Quran is saying?

And what if I was to bring you an opinion of a Scholar that agrees with what I am saying, would THAT change your point of view?

Things are not so complicated as you try to make things to be --- This Quran was sent to be READ and understood, not to have its words dismissed because somebody's cousin's brother's neighbor's father's etc etc said that he heard the Prophet said. You want to trust the source or some wive's tale?

Now we see the deranging effects of modernism on the human intellect.

May Allah Ta'ala guide you.

[sudoku]

And to ask a different question --- when I point something out using Grammar and the meaning of the words in the Quran, I get called on as saying my "opinion". And yet when taking an OPINION from a 'Sahih' book, there is no problem.

As this guys mentioned -- «مَنْ قَالَ فِي القُرْآنِ بِرَأْيِهِ فَأَصَابَ فَقَدْ أَخْطَأَ

Do you even know what you are saying? You are now even questioning the words of Nabi ?



I have to agree with br abd7861 here.

[abuhajira]

انت تستعبط؟ عبيط؟

how do you "men"? Say the sentence "the men and women" and now say "how are you doing man" --- and now say the Ayaa --- In Arabic, do you say it MAN or MEN? I did not say "MIN" which would be kasra.

Agreed, you have bad transliterating skills. you might as well use www.islamicity.com to post your transliteration. It will give a better outlook

Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa alhadeethi liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan olaika lahum AAathabun muheenun

And the other one saying "laho al hadeeth" but I typed it "laho and hadeeth" --- did I get the meaning wrong, or are trying to discredit because of a typo? Answer, did I translate wrong? No.

Did I even discuss your translations? You are explaining word for word quran to show its translation, and you cannot phonetically place the words of the quran. That is what I am establishing.

And the other where you say "Yathila should be Li-yudilla." --- did you just SKIP the 'Le' right before --- you skipped a word I typed?!

I color coded your mistake. You got the tense wrong! Yathila and Yudilla is different! I posted from Tafseer Razi showing the difference this makes.

And now we get to the over-all: You are trying to discredit what I typed because I made mistakes when typing Arabic phonetically using English letters?! Is that what your argument is about?

No, I am discrediting you ability to read quran, let alone understand it. Your understanding is based on dictionary and "official translations". SubhanAllah. Learn to own up to your ineptitude.

And to top it off you put in a tafseer about لِيُضِلُّوا -- seriously? THAT is a your rebuttal? ANSWER this question: was the translation I made OR the 5 others (ALL of them) wrong in the meaning of the words لِيُضِلَّ ? No.

Translation is a 3rd year class in a normal dars e nizami. We are discussing 1st year matter. Tenses!

And to think I was actually LOOKING for a rebuttal about the discussion, the ayaa, the Hadeeth. Turns out to be a waste of time.

For you to think is itself an achievement. It is a waste of time. ofcourse, with skills like those who would waste time?

[abuhajira]

And to ask a different question --- when I point something out using Grammar and the meaning of the words in the Quran, I get called on as saying my "opinion". And yet when taking an OPINION from a 'Sahih' book, there is no problem.

please do not drag Arabic grammer into such menace by saying that you used grammar and meaning of the word to point out something.

As this guys mentioned -- «مَنْ قَالَ فِي القُرْآنِ بِرَأْيِهِ فَأَصَابَ فَقَدْ أَخْطَأَ

Words of hadeeth. translate it please. Google translate will not help you This is what google gives you "Who said in the Quran in his opinion, hitting the wrong"

Isn't that in itself an OPINION? And don't all these Muftis and Scholars explaining their OPINION on what the Quran is saying?

No, its a hadeeth. you know words of that mighty prophet on whom the Qur'an, which you were trying to explain, was revealed.

And what if I was to bring you an opinion of a Scholar that agrees with what I am saying, would THAT change your point of view?

So far you have just mocked the whole science of Ulumul Quran and Ulumul Tafseer. Lets see you getting into Ulumul Fiqh. How deep a hole do you dig.

Things are not so complicated as you try to make things to be --- This Quran was sent to be READ and understood, not to have its words dismissed because somebody's cousin's brother's neighbor's father's etc etc said that he heard the Prophet said. You want to trust the source or some wive's tale?

Apparently the words of Rasulullah are a wive's tale, but Qur'an which was ALSO transmitted through the same cousin, brother etc etc.. is divine word worthy of your honour's explanatory notes.

[dawaheed]

Agreed, you have bad transliterating skills. ...

Old saying goes in Arabic --- "El7ag el chathab lai 3end Al bab" --- follow the liar to the door.

Since you seem to deem all these translations "wrong", here --- YOU translate, or give me the translation YOU rely on -- Go on here is the Quran for your reference: وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَشۡتَرِى لَهۡوَ ٱلۡحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ بِغَيۡرِ عِلۡمٍ۬ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا*ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ لَهُمۡ عَذَابٌ۬ مُّهِينٌ۬


Go on. I am waiting for this miracle where you will pull "music" out of this.

[abuhajira]

It is very amusing to note that you wish to veer the discussion away from your mistakes in basic transliterations. Do not worry sheikh, I have not discussed anywhere about translations.

Moreover, My initial and most important point was to jolt you towards the hadeeth which is sareeh and clear about a person who does not know Qur'an, gives an opinion about it. Clearly, you are very bold in that regard. So bold, that even Rasulullah 's statements are a guy's opinion or wive's tales. If sahaba's opinions are nothing compared to your understanding, then who is abuhajira?

In light of all that, why do you feel so optimistic about us giving you a candid audience?

[abdulwahhab]

Old saying goes in Arabic --- "El7ag el chathab lai 3end Al bab" --- follow the liar to the door.

Since you seem to deem all these translations "wrong", here --- YOU translate, or give me the translation YOU rely on -- Go on here is the Quran for your reference: وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَشۡتَرِى لَهۡوَ ٱلۡحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ بِغَيۡرِ عِلۡمٍ۬ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا*ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ لَهُمۡ عَذَابٌ۬ مُّهِينٌ۬


Go on. I am waiting for this miracle where you will pull "music" out of this.

I don't understand how one can have so much difficulty understanding that someone who lived with , stayed around, had the suhbah of Rasoolullah would have the correct understanding of the ayah as opposed to someone living in the 15th century claiming otherwise.

Are you saying that your superior intellect has triumphed over the witnessing of the sahaba and the understanding of the ulama? Such arrogance.

If a sahaba says that music is meant by this verse, if other sahaba corroborate this, if ulama that came after corroborate this, are you seriously claiming that YOUR understanding is even close to being as accurate let alone superior?

And if you reject ahadeeth, then nothing can help you and everyone is wasting valuable Ramadhan time.

[dr76]

A Repost as Reminder..

Ma’arif Mathnavi , A commentary of the Mathnavi of Hazrat Maulana Jalaluddin Rumi ; By Arif billah Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Muhammed Akhtar saheb damathu barakatuhum.

Translation into English by Maulana Yousuf karan sahab of Cape Town. with foreword by Hazrat Maulana Younus Patel sahab . Durban , South Africa.

P: 152-154

The Vain imagination of a fly

A donkey urinated in a certain place. The urine was so much that as it flowed away, blades of grass started flowing with the urine. A fly sat on one of the dry blades of grass as it flowed away on top of the urine. He felt as if he was sailing along on the ocean and imagined the flowing blade of grass to be his boat. In comparison with other flies, he felt himself to be superior. Never before did he feel his superiority. He felt inclined to announce his superiority and high rank, and said:

A fly on a blade of grass sailing along in a donkeys urine..
Like a ship, shakes his head and announces:

“I have studied the sea and sailed by boat...
And in this study have I spent quite a time...”

Maulana Rumi explains: Just as this fly is involved with a greatly foolish notion, similarly is the case of the misguided intelligentsia of our age who term their imaginations and wrong thoughts to be research. They consider it insulting and humiliating for them to derive benefit from divine revelation. They consider it perfect to invite humanity to those false ideologies. Maulana gives advice to those stupid ones:

“He who with his wrong interpretations turn away from divine revelation...
Is like that fly on the balde of grass sailing along in the donkey’s urine”.

This person looks upon his imagination and ideas as his saving grace and means of success , and even tries to make Divine revelations subject to his own opinions. At every step he is wont to say: “ I think this or that ..”, “ My opinion is this..”. he goes so far to pass judgement from his opinions on those things in deen on which there is a general consensus of agreement, and those things which are proven through continous authentic transmission. He even wants to impose his views over the judgement of sahaba and their beliefs. Such a person is in the same boat as the fly in this story. Such a person is like the fly flowing along on a blade of grass in the urine of a donkey; imagining he is an expert sailor.

Thereafter Maulana Rumi (rah) shows the way how such a person can reform himself:

“If the fly does not enter wrong interpretation into his opinion..
And repent from wrong interpretations...
Fate will make that fly become blessed”.

In other words , the fly will become so full of blessings that he will be saved from having to sit on faeces and from being mixed with impurities. He will then enter the ranks of pure ones.
The author of these lines says that Maulana’s reference in this couplet is to the Qur’anic verse:

“And conjecture avails nothing against truth”.

And the verse : “ And follow the path of him who returns (in repentance) to Me”.

wa assalam..

[faisal ahmad]

السلام عليكم,

If there was a Sunniforum hall of fame, the OP deserves to be included in it. ما شاء الله, May Allah increase br. pluto in eloquence, understanding, and humility.

Agree 100%. You're a moderator - can you make it into a sticky?